The price a Catholic pays for being in the public arena

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you for bringing up this harsh issue. If we think of paedophile priests, we have had cases where the Church did anything to cover all up. Whereas the Italian State was investigating, because the fact happened within its own territory. But, this is just the evidence that Church and State rarely cooperate and they are antagonists.

My point was that if the relationship was as you described it, no cooperation would be necessary; any priest who ran afoul of the government - whether because they were a sexual predator or just because the government disapproved of them - would just be kicked out of the country.

 

[Estro Felino]

My point was that if the relationship was as you described it, no cooperation would be necessary; any priest who ran afoul of the government - whether because they were a sexual predator or just because the government disapproved of them - would just be kicked out of the country.

Priests are Italian citizens, and they live within the territory of the secular Republic.
It is a matter of citizenship.
A priest can have the Vatican citizenship, in that case, you are right...he will be expelled.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Priests are Italian citizens, and they live within the territory of the secular Republic.
It is a matter of citizenship.
A priest can have the Vatican citizenship, in that case, you are right...he will be expelled.

Never mind.

It's like talking to a wall.

 

[metis]

Understood, that was kind of my point, a long history of coverup from the top down.

At mass yesterday, I thought more about what you said in regard to the local church being what affects us as parishioners mostly, and you are correct, imo, so that has put me more at ease. I'm quite an emotional person, which has some good sides to it but also some bad, and it's the latter that reflected my anger.

So, thanks for reminding me of what I do believe minus my emotional reaction.

 

[metis]

By the way, I listened to the Archbishop in a podcast. He says he does not mean to interfere into legitimate secular democracy. His point is basically that, since Eucharist can be taken only after Confession and repentance, he just invited N.P. to repent.

And how could he possibly know if she hadn't?

 

[metis]

Refusing communion to one under mortal sin is an act of charity and is the definition of a pastoral priesthood.

That's not always so cut & dry. For example, Pelosi is a representative who has an obligation to represent her constituency, so that aspect must also be considered. Also, we don't live in a theocracy whereas Church teachings must be reflected in our civil law.

 

[GardenLady]

Nancy D'Alesandro

Why did you choose to refer to her repeatedly by her maiden name?

 

[pearl]

I'm quite an emotional person, which has some good sides to it but also some bad, and it's the latter that reflected my anger.

These scandals ought make us angry. And here's another one, although this time it is not the Catholic Church.

ATLANTA, May 22 (Reuters) - For decades, complaints of sex abuse by pastors and staff in the largest U.S. Protestant denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, were either ignored or covered up by top clergy, according to an internal report released on Sunday.

The nearly 300-page report details how complaints were kept as "closely guarded secrets" within the church to avoid liability, "to exclusion of all other considerations," it said.

U.S. Southern Baptists release scathing report on sexual abuse | Reuters

 

[GardenLady]

The Pope has taken a clear stance towards Italian Nationalists. Publicly. Not privately.

This is very different from publicly excluding a person from communion by name.

 

[GardenLady]

Refusing communion to one under mortal sin is an act of charity and is the definition of a pastoral priesthood.

For an elected representative or a judge to decide or vote in a way that is different from Catholic doctrine is a mortal sin? If Pelosi, who swore to uphold the Constitution, believes that the American people have a secular, legal right to obtain an abortion, she is still required to toe the line on Catholic doctrine and attempt to impose it on others in a constitutional republic? If that is the church's position, we can bring back the day when people feared to vote for Catholic politicians, thinking they would be loyal to Rome and not the US Constitution.

 

[metis]

These scandals ought make us angry. And here's another one, although this time it is not the Catholic Church.

ATLANTA, May 22 (Reuters) - For decades, complaints of sex abuse by pastors and staff in the largest U.S. Protestant denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention, were either ignored or covered up by top clergy, according to an internal report released on Sunday.

The nearly 300-page report details how complaints were kept as "closely guarded secrets" within the church to avoid liability, "to exclusion of all other considerations," it said.

U.S. Southern Baptists release scathing report on sexual abuse | Reuters

Yes, I caught this on the news this morning. Hey, it also happened in the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up on as well that got swept under the rug. It even happened within the Boy Scouts a decade or so ago.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why did you choose to refer to her repeatedly by her maiden name?

Because I don't think a woman should take the husband's surname.
In my country it does not happen.

 

[GardenLady]

Because I don't think a woman should take the husband's surname.
In my country it does not happen.

So YOU get to choose for her what she should be called?

 

[pearl]

Yes, I caught this on the news this morning. Hey, it also happened in the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up on as well that got swept under the rug. It even happened within the Boy Scouts a decade or so ago.

It has nothing to do with a particular religion, unfortunately it is a reality that preys on the vulnerable in all walks of life and has done so from the beginning of time I guess. I was appalled at the BS scandal, given that my son, now 55, was an Eagle Scout.

 

[pearl]

For an elected representative or a judge to decide or vote in a way that is different from Catholic doctrine is a mortal sin?

And we have how many Catholics now present on the Supreme Court?
And you think their vote ought to reflect their Catholic teaching? Would feel the same if a Jewish, or Islamic court?

 

[metis]

And we have how many Catholics now present on the Supreme Court?
And you think their vote ought to reflect their Catholic teaching?

VERY good point, imo.

 

[GardenLady]

And we have how many Catholics now present on the Supreme Court?
And you think their vote ought to reflect their Catholic teaching? Would feel the same if a Jewish, or Islamic court?

No. I was questioning someone’s comment that appeared to be advocating that.

 

[pearl]

VERY good point, imo.

In a perfect Court religion would not be any criteria. Scalia was a good example of leaving his religion, raised in a devout Catholic family, aside. He voted against the right to abortion not on moral grounds but because the Constitution 'simply does not speak to abortion' and should not have been heard by the Court. He opposed John Paul II's new catechism especially the new teaching against the death penalty, which Scalia upheld. If in the future the Court would again hear abortion, this time to overturn it, he would vote 'no' on the same grounds and leave it to the states. So, I guess the question is if religion has an impact on the Court does their religious background have any influence. John Roberts is a graduate of The College of the Holy Cross, a liberal arts Jesuit school.

 

[metis]

If in the future the Court would again hear abortion, this time to overturn it, he would vote 'no' on the same grounds and leave it to the states

But will they actually leave it to the states as some Pubs have already said that a nationwide ban should be next?

 

[pearl]

But will they actually leave it to the states as some Pubs have already said that a nationwide ban should be next?

Judging by the leaked brief, no. Congress tried to pass a bill that would 'codify' the right to abortion. As I understand it, and its too much for my 80yr old brain, it would have passed the Senate but for the progressives adding whatever in a way that no republican, nor Joe Manchin could vote for.