The price a Catholic pays for being in the public arena

[pearl]

I'm not, especially since we had two incidents here in our parish whereas all they did was to move a choir director who abused some young girls to another parish and where a priest of ours was defrocked and sentenced but only after the scandals broke nationally.

I am really surprised that the same policy continues. My reason for blaming this process on the practice of times is due to John Paul II reluctance to defrock Cardinal Law, but instead actually rewarded him after allowing him to resign his position in Boston.

"Cardinal Law was the last gasp of an old regime, which said even when cardinals have engaged in spectacular failures somehow their dignity and their status has to be protected."
Where Is Cardinal Bernard Law Now? | WBUR News

And I ask what about the dignity of the abused!

 

[Estro Felino]

But the difference is that the Mob violates the civil law whereas Pelosi hasn't, plus she is obligated to represent her constituency as a representative.

BTW, how's the weather over there in Sicilia? We've been in contact with some of my wife's relatives there but on other matters.

Indeed.
That is why I think that all that matters is that Nancy Pelosi can still take the Communion in any other diocese of the country.
And by the way, the Archbishop of Baltimore is the US Primas. Not AB Cordileone.

 

[Father Heathen]

I often forget that I'm a legally ordained minister. So, for a small fee I'll administer the Eucharist, no questions asked.

 

[metis]

I am really surprised that the same policy continues. My reason for blaming this process on the practice of times is due to John Paul II reluctance to defrock Cardinal Law, but instead actually rewarded him after allowing him to resign his position in Boston.

I was referring to what happened before the scandal broke.

And I ask what about the dignity of the abused!

It was our youngest daughter who came home bawling her eyes out and who had her breasts groped by the choir director, and we also found out through a couple of other parents that he had done this before. She was around 12-13. All the bishop did was to move the director to another parish whereas they had a school attached, and I didn't find out about that until several years later.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It depends. There is a limit to everything.
A Bishop in Sicily has forbidden priests from giving the Eucharist to mobsters.
And one of the worst, who died in jail of old age, was denied the Funeral Holy Mass.

Is this Bishop at fault? I don't think so.

I can see that the Church, as an institution, doesn’t want to be seen to endorse a criminal institution, sure. But on a personal level, would Christ ever have turned his back on a sinner? He didn’t turn away the centurion who came to plead for the life of his servant…

 

[RestlessSoul]

I often forget that I'm a legally ordained minister. So, for a small fee I'll administer the Eucharist, no questions asked.

The fee could be a problem

 

[RestlessSoul]

I was referring to what happened before the scandal broke.

It was our youngest daughter who came home bawling her eyes out and who had her breasts groped by the choir director, and we also found out through a couple of other parents that he had done this before. She was around 12-13. All the bishop did was to move the director to another parish whereas they had a school attached, and I didn't find out about that until several years later.

That’s shocking.

Okay, maybe I should know better than to be shocked. But that’s an appalling failure of the church’s duty of care, which is a statutory legal obligation in many countries.

 

[Estro Felino]

I can see that the Church, as an institution, doesn’t want to be seen to endorse a criminal institution, sure. But on a personal level, would Christ ever have turned his back on a sinner? He didn’t turn away the centurion who came to plead for the life of his servant…

Well...maybe I shouldnt have spoken of such a quite different case. The topic is politicians like Pelosi.
I think she should be proud of her own battles, and unfortunately Church and State rarely pursue the same goals. Pretty never. So she should not care about the Church.
For instance in so many Catholic countries gay people can get married. And this thanks to politicians who did not let the Church influence them.

 

[KW]

I remember when the same action was taken against John Kerry, denying of the Eucharist. What the bishop in this case is advocating is single issue voting.

From the article;
Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco is barring Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi from receiving Communion in his archdiocese. Ms. Pelosi, a life-long Catholic, has recently vowed to codify Roe v. Wade, in order to preserve a legal right to abortion in case the Supreme Court overturns the decision that legalized abortion in the United States.

“Unfortunately, Speaker Pelosi’s position on abortion has become only more extreme over the years, especially in the last few months,” Archbishop Cordileone said in a statement May 20. “Just earlier this month she once again, as she has many times before, explicity raised her Catholic faith while justifying abortion as a ‘choice,’ this time explicitly setting herself in opposition to Pope Francis.”

Last fall, Archbishop Cordileone organized a prayer and fasting campaign for Ms. Pelosi. “A conversion of heart of the majority of our congressional representatives is needed on this issue, beginning with the leader of the House,” he said in a statement Sept. 29. “I am therefore inviting all Catholics to join in a massive and visible campaign of prayer and fasting for Speaker Pelosi: Commit to praying one rosary a week and fasting on Fridays for her conversion of heart.”

Pope Francis has said that he has never denied Communion to anyone. “When the church, in order to defend a principle, acts in a non-pastoral way, it takes sides on the political plane. It has always been so,” Francis said last September on the flight back to Rome from Bratislava. “Be a pastor. Don’t go condemning.”

Archbishop bars Nancy Pelosi from Communion in her home diocese, citing ‘aggressive’ defense of abortion rights | America Magazine

Refusing communion to one under mortal sin is an act of charity and is the definition of a pastoral priesthood.

 

[The Hammer]

I am sorry, if one wants to be a representative of a secular state where there is the separation of Church and State, they need to pay the price. And that price includes to be excluded from certain religious practices by your Bishop

That's pathetically sad. And petty.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I remember when the same action was taken against John Kerry, denying of the Eucharist. What the bishop in this case is advocating is single issue voting.

From the article;
Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone of San Francisco is barring Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi from receiving Communion in his archdiocese. Ms. Pelosi, a life-long Catholic, has recently vowed to codify Roe v. Wade, in order to preserve a legal right to abortion in case the Supreme Court overturns the decision that legalized abortion in the United States.

“Unfortunately, Speaker Pelosi’s position on abortion has become only more extreme over the years, especially in the last few months,” Archbishop Cordileone said in a statement May 20. “Just earlier this month she once again, as she has many times before, explicity raised her Catholic faith while justifying abortion as a ‘choice,’ this time explicitly setting herself in opposition to Pope Francis.”

Last fall, Archbishop Cordileone organized a prayer and fasting campaign for Ms. Pelosi. “A conversion of heart of the majority of our congressional representatives is needed on this issue, beginning with the leader of the House,” he said in a statement Sept. 29. “I am therefore inviting all Catholics to join in a massive and visible campaign of prayer and fasting for Speaker Pelosi: Commit to praying one rosary a week and fasting on Fridays for her conversion of heart.”

Pope Francis has said that he has never denied Communion to anyone. “When the church, in order to defend a principle, acts in a non-pastoral way, it takes sides on the political plane. It has always been so,” Francis said last September on the flight back to Rome from Bratislava. “Be a pastor. Don’t go condemning.”

Archbishop bars Nancy Pelosi from Communion in her home diocese, citing ‘aggressive’ defense of abortion rights | America Magazine

To a devout Catholic, being denied the sacraments is a fate worse than death.

IMO, people who make threats like this should face criminal charges as severe as what someone would face if they threatened to kill a legislator if they didn't vote a particular way.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Refusing communion to one under mortal sin is an act of charity and is the definition of a pastoral priesthood.

If the Catholic Church is going to demand a say in secular politics, then I demand a say in the affairs of the Catholic Church.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It depends. There is a limit to everything.
A Bishop in Sicily has forbidden priests from giving the Eucharist to mobsters.
And one of the worst, who died in jail of old age, was denied the Funeral Holy Mass.

Is this Bishop at fault? I don't think so.

I'd say there's a fair bit of difference between someone using their influence to fight crime and someone using their influence to fight legitimate democracy.

 

[PruePhillip]

Are we speaking of the same Nancy D'Alesandro who had this stance on late-term abortions?
Pelosi Statement on Supreme Court's Decision on Late-Term Abortions

I am sorry, if one wants to be a representative of a secular state where there is the separation of Church and State, they need to pay the price. And that price includes to be excluded from certain religious practices by your Bishop.

Not only her. I too would be barred from Communion by my Bishop, if I were a staunch late-term abortions apologist and an active politician, upholding abortion.

If I decided to defend abortion as a right (and I do defend it), I would be disposed to pay the price to renounce Communion all my life long.
You cannot have the cake and eat it. The separation of State and Church implies a choice.

This 'late term abortion' is the most explosive.
Is it true that some aborted babies were live and kicking after 'termination' ?
Can we kill a child up to the age of 5, as Peter Singer suggested, if it helps a mother's mental or physical health?

 

[Estro Felino]

I'd say there's a fair bit of difference between someone using their influence to fight crime and someone using their influence to fight legitimate democracy.

Sure, the difference is overwhelming. Besides, the Pope himself said that Communion should not be denied to anyone, let alone to politicians who need to fight for their own political battles (secular battles).
By the way, I listened to the Archbishop in a podcast. He says he does not mean to interfere into legitimate secular democracy. His point is basically that, since Eucharist can be taken only after Confession and repentance, he just invited N.P. to repent.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

By the way, I listened to the Archbishop in a podcast. He says he does not mean to interfere into legitimate secular democracy.

Sure he doesn't.

 

[pearl]

I was referring to what happened before the scandal broke.

Understood, that was kind of my point, a long history of coverup from the top down.

 

[Estro Felino]

Understood, that was kind of my point, a long history of coverup from the top down.

Nevertheless, I would like to understand whether there is a line a certain Catholic politician cannot cross.
For example...funding a Satanist Church.
Is there a line?

 

[Heyo]

Nevertheless, I would like to understand whether there is a line a certain Catholic politician cannot cross.
For example...funding a Satanist Church.
Is there a line?

There is one line a Catholic (and some other Christians) can never cross without being excommunicated: not paying tithes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nevertheless, I would like to understand whether there is a line a certain Catholic politician cannot cross.
For example...funding a Satanist Church.
Is there a line?

Funding any church with taxpayer funds is a line that no politician should cross.

That being said, IMO, any attempt by the Catholic Church to use threats of spiritual punishment against legislators in order to change law or policy is an abuse of their undue influence.