The Problem Of Bad Facts About Guns

[mikkel_the_dane]

How scary! Since semi-auto weapons can be converted into fully automatic weapons with high load capacity magazines, then please let us extend the ban on fully automatic weapons to also include semi auto weapons. U.S, civilians don't need them anyhow, we can just as well use non-semi-auto firearms like revolvers, bolt-action rifles or pump action shot guns for legitimate purposes like self defense or hunting of food.

You can't ban your way out of it. Restrict access to guns to people who have a higher probability to do gun crimes.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Just now on NPR, I heard the talking heads talk about how
the expiration in 2004 of Clinton's "Assault Weapon Ban" (1994)
resulted in increased school shootings. (NPR has long been in
the vanguard of pushing gun ban propaganda.)
Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia

There are a couple non-factual assumptions here.
1) The ban didn't affect any assault weapons (which are
select fire, ie, capable of semi or full auto operation).
It was limited to covering only semi auto guns.
2) The ban didn't ban any look-alikes that already existed.
They were just as easy & legal to own as before.
3) The ban imposed only insignificant regulations on
guns manufactured after Sept 13, 1994.
4) Manufacturers ramped up production greatly before
this date to meet the newly increased demand.
5) There's no evidence that the 1994 law had any
significant effect on crime.
Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia

This thread is not for arguing about what should or shouldn't be done.
It's about giving factoids the boot, & dealing with actual facts.
But figuring what to do should be based upon solid info.

Some facts:
States with the most gun violence share one trait - CNNPolitics

 

[esmith]

So, some more "facts."

In the United States, you must be 21 years old to buy and drink a beer, or buy and smoke a pack of cigarettes. One presumes that younger than that is not considered mature enough to make an informed choice about such things.

And yet, you need be only 18 to buy an AR-15 rifle and 1600 rounds of ammo for it. Again, one has to assume that you are, at 18, old enough to make decisions about hunting for dinner.

(And another fact -- that gun, and that number of rounds, you are not hunting for dinner, you're planning on opening a butcher shop capable of supplying a medium-sized town.)

And at the age of 18 (17 with parents consent) you can enlist in the military.
The18 vs 21 laws concerning alcohol and tobacca is, IMO, wrong and I suspect that those that advocated for it were louder than those opposed.the laws.
I

 

[esmith]

I am confident a skilled user of a ,357 Magnum revolver might very well be able to defend himself even against a nearby criminal possessing a fully loaded AR-15.
I doubt there is always an advantage having a semi-auto rifle loaded with thirty shots for attacking an able bodied defender who has a revolver loaded with six shots.

Therefore you believe that the military should have stayed with the bolt action rifle versus the semi-auto?

 

[esmith]

There are too many guns out there to practically ban them and get them off the street. Start by restricting access to guns to types of people, who have a higher probability of doing gun crimes. There is even more you can do, but that is the main thing.

And how would you perpose that could be enacted?

 

[esmith]

Some facts:
States with the most gun violence share one trait - CNNPolitics

Your link is not working, either that or it was taken down.
I think this link works though: States with the most gun violence share one trait - CNNPolitics
And the article states:
Most gun deaths are suicides

So obviously the problem is not the gun, but whatever is driving the suicide rate.

 

[Suave]

You can't ban your way out of it. Restrict access to guns to people who have a higher probability to do gun crimes.

Therefore you believe that the military should have stayed with the bolt action rifle versus the semi-auto?

Semi auto weapons belong in the military!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

And how would you perpose that could be enacted?

Well, it would require a compromise, but the other side is "insert negative evaluation here" so it properly won't happen, because the other side is the problem and if we just all did as my side wants, it would work.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Your link is not working, either that or it was taken down.
I think this link works though: States with the most gun violence share one trait - CNNPolitics
And the article states:
Most gun deaths are suicides

So obviously the problem is not the gun, but whatever is driving the suicide rate.

Read on.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Semi auto weapons belong in the military!

Yeah, but that won't work in the USA. Find a compromise!!!

 

[Suave]

You can't ban your way out of it. Restrict access to guns to people who have a higher probability to do gun crimes.

An outright semi auto weapons banning of 200 million existing firearms in America might be impractical. Perhaps we can agree their ownership transfers should be well regulated with universal background checks paid by prospective purchasers being taxed keeping semi auto firearms from being sold to mentally deranged would-be mass shooters. Newly manufactured or imported semi auto weapons could very well be confiscated by federal agents,

 

[Suave]

Yeah, but that won't work in the USA. Find a compromise!!!

Most everybody may agree with civilians having non-semi-auto firearms for self defense, hunting food or target practice while keeping semi-auto weapons in the hands of professional soldiers and law enforcement officers.

 

[Revoltingest]

An outright semi auto weapons banning of 200 million existing firearms in America might be impractical. Perhaps we can agree their ownership transfers should be well regulated with universal background checks paid by prospective purchasers being taxed keeping semi auto firearms from being sold to mentally deranged would-be mass shooters. Newly manufactured or imported semi auto weapons could very well be confiscated by federal agents,

That comports (generally) with my philosophy, ie,
keep the guns, but have policies that keep them
away from those who'd commit mayhem, & only
in the hands of trained responsible people.
It's not perfect (nothing is), but it's workable.

 

[esmith]

An outright semi auto weapons banning of 200 million existing firearms in America might be impractical. Perhaps we can agree their ownership transfers should be well regulated with universal background checks paid by prospective purchasers being taxed keeping semi auto firearms from being sold to mentally deranged would-be mass shooters. Newly manufactured or imported semi auto weapons could very well be confiscated by federal agents,

hows that working out on fentayl?

 

[esmith]

Most everybody may agree with civilians having non-semi-auto firearms for self defense, hunting food or target practice while keeping semi-auto weapons in the hands of professional soldiers and law enforcement officers.

what is your concept of "most"?
Read: 1. The demographics of gun ownership
"Three-in-ten American adults say they currently own a gun, and another 11% say they don’t personally own a gun but live with someone who does. Among those who don’t currently own a gun, about half say they could see themselves owning one in the future."

And I really don't believe their facts are correct. Many people that own a firearm may not admit that they do.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...e-americans-became-gun-owners-during-pandemic
5 Million More Americans Became Gun Owners During Pandemic

 

[Suave]

hows that working out on fentayl?

There is too much of that to be mostly confiscated. I am hopeful improved Chinese-U.S. relations might persuade the Chinese Communist Party to crack down on fentanyl production and fentanyl global distribution.

 

[fantome profane]

That comports (generally) with my philosophy, ie,
keep the guns, but have policies that keep them
away from those who'd commit mayhem, & only
in the hands of trained responsible people.
It's not perfect (nothing is), but it's workable.

The problem is that this could leads to a slight decrease in gun sales, and that is politically unacceptable in the U.S.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is that this could leads to a slight decrease in gun sales, and that is politically unacceptable in the U.S.

Is this a conspiracy theory that I smell?

 

[suncowiam]

There are too many guns out there to practically ban them and get them off the street. Start by restricting access to guns to types of people, who have a higher probability of doing gun crimes. There is even more you can do, but that is the main thing.

That's a speculation, which I think has plausibility. Unless you provide further data to suggest it as fact.

Personally, I'm fine with restrictions with the effort of reducing the number of "illegal" guns. Enforcement of gun control is the issue, not necessarily the laws itself.

I know very well that we have very responsible gun owners like @Revoltingest. And truly do not want responsible gun owners to be punished... BUT. The current laws are not enough to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Other nations have shown processes/laws that can still enable citizens to own guns, albeit at a higher cost and more training. Given how dangerous and destructive guns are, I think it is fair to demand these restrictions on gun owners.

 

[suncowiam]

You've yet to become discussion-worthy.

That's from your perspective and I'm ok with that.

But I added to a topic with a context that I only care about, and that is gun violence.

Seriously, there are many like me that don't care about guns but have to discuss the topic given that we live in the US. I wouldn't give a rat's *ss about guns if it didn't affect my life like it does every US citizen. So when we do discuss guns, it's really in a simple context of gun violence.

I don't care about the many definitions of guns. You and other gun advocates can go nutts on that. Any true definition to us is the destructive power a gun provides in the context of gun violence.

This was a thread open to all and others like myself really only care about the gun violence aspect. How can we make it safer for all Americans concerning gun violence pertaining to facts, is what I want to discuss.

I brought up a fact about other nations curbing gun violence and you still have yet to try to discuss that. I know you will simply assert the second amendment because we've danced this dance enough times.

And like I said, the second amendment is the difference between US and other countries hence, it is the correlation to enabling gun violence.