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The problem of Creationism in Islam rejecting the science of evolution.

Monty

Active Member
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in fake versions.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in fake versions.
Woosh!!! Wooosh!!!

False, the Torah was not written in Oxford English, and the Rabbis know better than you or I concerning how to understand and interpret the Torah written in Hebrew. The Rabbis read and recite the Tanakh in traditional Hebrew, and understand, teach and interpret it as based on the original compilation of the Pentateuch in the Hebrew text.The text is variously translated for layman, but not for Rabbis. When the tanakh is researched and studied it is in Hebrew,

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew

What Language Do Orthodox Jews Speak?
Dear Jew in the City-What language do Orthodox Jews speak? Sincerely, Madison / Dear Madison-Thanks for your question but it’s a little like asking what language Catholics speak. (I doubt very much you’d expect all Catholics to speak Latin!) Hebrew is the traditional language of the Jewish...
jewinthecity.com



jewinthecity.com
Hebrew is the traditional language of the Jewish people – that’s the language in which Tanach (the Jewish Bible) and most of our prayers are written. However, we were exiled for the umpteenth time when the second Temple was destroyed and ultimately dispersed all over the world. The center of Jewish life moved to Babylonia and Aramaic became the common language. (The Talmud is written in Aramaic.) But Jews in other lands spoke whatever was spoken in their countries of residence – German, Spanish, French, Dutch – whatever. (I’m an Orthodox Jew and I speak English!)a


From their knowledge of the Torah the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood covered the mountains and all the humans and animals perished that were not on the Ark.

The Rabbis today agree, By the way the consistent unchangeable understanding and interpretation of the Tanakh is one of the hallmarks of Orthodox Judaism. You are the one that needs lessons on the Biblical Hebrew and respect for the Rabbis.

What you have not referenced is any Rabbi that supports your unfounded assertions. You asked me to consult Rabbis and I did, and found none that support your assertions.You presented nothing but repeating your opinion over and over and over and ah . . . over again.

It is odd you stoically assert this contradictory interpretation without any supporting reference or even one Rabbi's testimony to support your assertion. It is a fruitless stoic Mission. It is all mythology without a shred of anything beyond your assertion.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in fake versions.
No, the understanding and interpretation of ALL Rabbis. The Hebrew Torah as understood by ALL Rabbis is not false.
 

justaguy313

Active Member
You face many problems in your posts. It is like you are in a glass house throwing stones.

You mock science and misrepresent it.

No, you are doing that. Propagandists like you always project what they're doing on the opposition. Goebbels and Bernays mastered that art and you are doing exactly that


goebbelsquote.jpg
 

Monty

Active Member
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis.

And presumably the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible based their interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp


 
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Monty

Active Member
the understanding and interpretation of ALL Rabbis. The Hebrew Torah as understood by ALL Rabbis is not false.
Which is why the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which were not written by Rabbis and just imaginative fantasies with zero credibility and say nothing at all about the flood height anyway.

OJB
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise; and the harim were covered.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Mocking my narratives to being archaic and projecting his posts to be in concensus with 95% of science is exactly that. A projection. Now make a 100 more posts of squeeling of the pigs and monkeys about it if you must.
It is as a matter of fact true that belief in a literal Genesis and Pentateuch is indeed an archaic and ancient world view rejecting science.

Yes 95%++ of all scientists, and every major university in the world supports evolution. Presenting facts is not mocking. It is just plain factual science.

Much of what @1213 , @3rdAngel and you present in your argument for a literal Biblical Creation have been down right false, and a rejection and misrepresentation of science. This is represented in your posts #248 and #249.
 
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justaguy313

Active Member
It is as a matter of fact true that belief in a literal Genesis and Pentateuch is indeed an archaic and ancient world view rejecting science.

Yes 95%++ of all scientists, and every major university in the world supports evolution. Presenting facts is not mocking. It is just plain factual science.

Much of what @1213 , @3rdAngel and you present in your argument for a literal Biblical Creation have been down right false, and a rejection and misrepresentation of science. This is represented in your posts #248 and #249.

Charles Darwin wrote in his book The Descent of Man:
“A tribe including many members who, from possessing in a high degree the spirit of patriotism, fidelity, obedience, courage, and sympathy, were always ready to give aid to each other and to sacrifice themselves for the common good, would be victorious over most other tribes; and this would be natural selection.”

In Islam, just like in Buddhism and Christianity, the concept of brotherhood and sharing is essential.
Just like in the times of Buddha and Jesus, Prophet Muhammad also worked hard to establish a divine community.
In 622 AD, Muhammad and his few hundred followers left his hometown and sought refuge in another city called Yathrib. In his hometown he had been threatened and persecuted so he had no choice but to take those who believed in him, leave and start his life anew. The followers that had accompanied Prophet Muhammad had left all their belongings behind when they immigrated. Some of them had even left their families. They were from that moment on called the “Muhajireen” (Emigrants); while the citizens of Yathrib who had welcomed them in their hometown were called “Ansar”.
To integrate the Muhajireen, who had lost everything, into the economic and social life of the city, he made them “brothers” of the locals, the Ansar and he paired them in twos.
Therefore the early Muslim communal life was, just like life in the early Christian communities, characterized by those who had many possessions, sharing with those who were destitute.
Those Ansar that owned businesses made their brothers, whom they barely even knew, equal business partners. They shared their houses with them and when one passed away, his immigrant brother would be one of his inheritors, together with his relatives.
Several sources also report that Ansar gave away half of the land they owned to their newly arrived brothers.
According to ‘The Valley Came Alive: Life of The Last Messenger (PBUH)’ by Ibn Katheer, it is reported that the Prophet (pbuhahf) said to the Ansar:

“Your brothers have left wealth and children and have immigrated to you” The Ansar said: “Divide our wealth into portions between us.”
– The Valley Came Alive: Life of The Last Messenger (PBUH), Ibn Katheer


Unconditional sharing was even commanded through a verse in the Quran,

“As for those who had settled in the city and ˹embraced˺ the faith before ˹the arrival of˺ the emigrants, they love whoever immigrates to them, never having a desire in their hearts for whatever ˹of the gains˺ is given to the emigrants. They give ˹the emigrants˺ preference over themselves even though they may be in need. And whoever is saved from the selfishness of their own souls, it is they who are ˹truly˺ successful.”
– Holy Quran Al-Hashr verse 9




How beautiful would be a place where everybody considered the other person’s children to be his own? Where does everybody feel responsible to sustain and care for his brother’s family just like he feels responsible for his family?
Plato writes in his famous book, Laws:

“The first and highest form of the State and of the government and of the law is that in which there prevails most widely the ancient saying, that “Friends have all things in common.”… this communion of women and children and of property, in which the private and individual is altogether banished from life.”
– Laws, Plato


For Plato, the best community (or state) is one where everybody shares everything.
Where everybody shares “women and children and of property”, meaning where everybody takes care of each other’s children and each other’s families.
Nothing is private, meaning nothing belongs to just one person, everybody feels a sense of responsibility for each other (“the private and individual is altogether banished from life”).



Now Plato takes the concept even further by saying,

“…and things which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands, have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and blame and feel joy and sorrow on the same occasions, …—whether this is possible or not, I say that no man, acting upon any other principle, will ever constitute a state which will be truer or better or more exalted in virtue.”
-Laws, Plato


Plato does not only want properties and families to be shared but rather he urges people to share their own selves, to give up the very urge of self-preservation or distinctness.
In the perfect state that he envisions, members share their ears when someone needs to be listened to, and they share their hands if someone needs help. If the self is not considered a private but common good, no one would ever feel burdened by helping out the other, as he does not feel that his body or even his very existence is his own in the first place. This inner acknowledgement leads to a place where all “see and hear and act in common” as one body, all together, not everyone for themselves and where even happiness and sorrow are not personal but for the sake of the community and others.
This quote of Plato strongly correlates with the teachings of Ahmad Al-Hassan, the messenger and vicegerent of Imam Al-Mahdi (pbuhahf). He said:

“Peace and blessings of God be upon you, verily the believers are siblings. They are from one soul divided upon many bodies. Whoever does not feel or hurt for the pain of his sibling, is not one of us. Whoever is not happy for the happiness of his brother is not one of us. Stick to one another, hand in hand, like a tall building, may God safeguard you from everything bad and harmful.”
– Sayings of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (PBUH), p.14, hadith 1


Plato states clearly that without practicing this everyday communal self-sacrifice, humans will not be able to create a better society.
The concept of living to serve, support and help one another truly and wholeheartedly is part of building a divine community.
The idea is that the outer change of the living condition causes a profound change inside the human being and makes him face his darkest sides.
Building and being part of a divine community is a way of practicing the ways of the prophets and messengers.



In ‘The Republic’, Socrates seeks to map out the ideal society, a society filled with justice. The focus of Plato’s Republic is the structure of a just society. Socrates saw that you can’t ever make everyone happy but you can do the greatest amount of good for most people.
Socrates defined justice as a specialisation, in which every citizen does his duties in his appointed place. And remarkably, his definition lines up exactly with the words of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (fhip), who said:

“Justice means placing something into its right place.”
– The Book of Monotheism, Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (fhip), p.47


Putting everything in its right place. In other words, justice requires each person in the city to mind his own business, doing the particular job that has been allocated to him to the best of his abilities. Socrates claims that operating in this manner will allow the city to thrive, which is in everyone’s best interest. According to Socrates, an ideal society consists of three main groups of people. First are the producers, the people who make living possible – the craftsmen, farmers, and artisans. The second class is the warrior class. And finally, we have guardians or rulers, a society is just when these three classes are right and work in harmony with one another.
According to Socrates, the ruling class of the ideal society would consist of true philosophers – men and women, dominated by their rational faculties.


Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad and even Plato have all agreed that no one can walk the path of truth alone, but that we all need brothers and sisters on our sides, that walk with us.
Building and living in a divine community is indeed a practical way to live the teachings of selflessness that the prophets and messengers have come with and the only cure for our corrupt society that has completely forgotten the concept of selflessness.

Imam Ja’far Al-Sadiq (pbuh) said: “The simplest of the rights of the believer is that you should love for him what you love for yourself and you should despise for him what you despise for yourself. The second is that you should pursue what pleases him and avoid his displeasure and obey his command. The third is that you should help him with yourself, your wealth, your tongue, your hands and your feet. The fourth is that you should be his eyes, his guide and his mirror. The fifth is that you should not fill your stomach whilst he is hungry, you should not be quenched whilst he is thirsty and you should not clothe yourself whilst he is naked.”
– Al-Kafi, Muhammad ibn Yaqub Al-Kulaini, v.2, p.169, hadith 2


In the Bhagavad Gita, a prominent text of Hinduism, Krishna (pbuh) says,

“Those devotees are very dear to Me who are free from malice toward all living beings, who are friendly, and compassionate. They are free from attachment to possessions and egotism, equipoised in happiness and distress, and ever-forgiving.”
-Bhagavad Gita, ch. 12, verse 13-14


Imagine such a community where nobody owns more than the other, and where everything is shared. How many of our conflicts today are caused by greed, the fear of losing our possessions, the fear of being exploited or giving too much? What if we were to rid ourselves of all this by choice and through giving away and sharing all our belongings with our brothers in faith we defeat the urges of greed and selfishness that house inside every human being?

“Verily Al-Hussein (pbuh) paved the way for the Divine Just State, as if Al-Hussain (pbuh) was slaughtered in Karbala in order that the Qa’im (pbuh) from his sons reigns, and as if Al-Hussain (pbuh) was a sacrifice for the establishment of the Divine Just State, and for the rulership of Allah, the Almighty…”
– Sayings of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (PBUH), p.100-101, hadith 208

The promised Divine Just State will be implemented in this day and age by Imam al Mahdi. A state filled with peace and love towards one another will be established and an end will come to corruption, suffering and conflict. A balanced society, in which the structures are fair to everybody without exception, a society where no man, woman or child is discriminated against. A state that is built without currency, injustice, disease and death unless murdered or by accident. The people’s necessities and needs will be taken care of. The ones in high authority will no longer be in position, equality will be established & oppression banished. Everyone will live like a king and play a role in society but live the same as their brother. A communal society will be built.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Charles Darwin wrote in his book The Descent of Man:
If you want to discuss the sciences of evolution and human relationships please cite current sources. Yes Darwin was the first to propose a theory of what we call today the sciences of evolution, but beyond that the sciences of evolution and sociology have evolved beyond the 19th century. The only relevant reference for Darwin in the discussion is was the first to propose the Theory of Evolution. His views on sociology are not relevant today.

In Islam, just like in Buddhism and Christianity, the concept of brotherhood and sharing is essential.
Buddhism yes, but not the reality of Christianity in history the concept of brotherhood is ONLY in the tribe of Christianity, and sometimes within only one church as in the Roman Church belief that salvation is only with in the church,.

Just like in the times of Buddha and Jesus, Prophet Muhammad also worked hard to establish a divine community.

In 622 AD, Muhammad and his few hundred followers left his hometown and sought refuge in another city called Yathrib. In his hometown he had been threatened and persecuted so he had no choice but to take those who believed in him, leave and start his life anew. The followers that had accompanied Prophet Muhammad had left all their belongings behind when they immigrated. Some of them had even left their families. They were from that moment on called the “Muhajireen” (Emigrants); while the citizens of Yathrib who had welcomed them in their hometown were called “Ansar”.
To integrate the Muhajireen, who had lost everything, into the economic and social life of the city, he made them “brothers” of the locals, the Ansar and he paired them in twos.
Therefore the early Muslim communal life was, just like life in the early Christian communities, characterized by those who had many possessions, sharing with those who were destitute.
Those Ansar that owned businesses made their brothers, whom they barely even knew, equal business partners. They shared their houses with them and when one passed away, his immigrant brother would be one of his inheritors, together with his relatives.
Several sources also report that Ansar gave away half of the land they owned to their newly arrived brothers.
According to ‘The Valley Came Alive: Life of The Last Messenger (PBUH)’ by Ibn Katheer, it is reported that the Prophet (pbuhahf) said to the Ansar:

“Your brothers have left wealth and children and have immigrated to you” The Ansar said: “Divide our wealth into portions between us.”
– The Valley Came Alive: Life of The Last Messenger (PBUH), Ibn Katheer


Unconditional sharing was even commanded through a verse in the Quran,

“As for those who had settled in the city and ˹embraced˺ the faith before ˹the arrival of˺ the emigrants, they love whoever immigrates to them, never having a desire in their hearts for whatever ˹of the gains˺ is given to the emigrants. They give ˹the emigrants˺ preference over themselves even though they may be in need. And whoever is saved from the selfishness of their own souls, it is they who are ˹truly˺ successful.”
– Holy Quran Al-Hashr verse 9




How beautiful would be a place where everybody considered the other person’s children to be his own? Where does everybody feel responsible to sustain and care for his brother’s family just like he feels responsible for his family?
Plato writes in his famous book, Laws:

“The first and highest form of the State and of the government and of the law is that in which there prevails most widely the ancient saying, that “Friends have all things in common.”… this communion of women and children and of property, in which the private and individual is altogether banished from life.”
– Laws, Plato


For Plato, the best community (or state) is one where everybody shares everything.
Where everybody shares “women and children and of property”, meaning where everybody takes care of each other’s children and each other’s families.
Nothing is private, meaning nothing belongs to just one person, everybody feels a sense of responsibility for each other (“the private and individual is altogether banished from life”).



Now Plato takes the concept even further by saying,

“…and things which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands, have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and blame and feel joy and sorrow on the same occasions, …—whether this is possible or not, I say that no man, acting upon any other principle, will ever constitute a state which will be truer or better or more exalted in virtue.”
-Laws, Plato


Plato does not only want properties and families to be shared but rather he urges people to share their own selves, to give up the very urge of self-preservation or distinctness.
In the perfect state that he envisions, members share their ears when someone needs to be listened to, and they share their hands if someone needs help. If the self is not considered a private but common good, no one would ever feel burdened by helping out the other, as he does not feel that his body or even his very existence is his own in the first place. This inner acknowledgement leads to a place where all “see and hear and act in common” as one body, all together, not everyone for themselves and where even happiness and sorrow are not personal but for the sake of the community and others.
This quote of Plato strongly correlates with the teachings of Ahmad Al-Hassan, the messenger and vicegerent of Imam Al-Mahdi (pbuhahf). He said:

“Peace and blessings of God be upon you, verily the believers are siblings. They are from one soul divided upon many bodies. Whoever does not feel or hurt for the pain of his sibling, is not one of us. Whoever is not happy for the happiness of his brother is not one of us. Stick to one another, hand in hand, like a tall building, may God safeguard you from everything bad and harmful.”
– Sayings of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (PBUH), p.14, hadith 1


Plato states clearly that without practicing this everyday communal self-sacrifice, humans will not be able to create a better society.
The concept of living to serve, support and help one another truly and wholeheartedly is part of building a divine community.
The idea is that the outer change of the living condition causes a profound change inside the human being and makes him face his darkest sides.
Building and being part of a divine community is a way of practicing the ways of the prophets and messengers.



In ‘The Republic’, Socrates seeks to map out the ideal society, a society filled with justice. The focus of Plato’s Republic is the structure of a just society. Socrates saw that you can’t ever make everyone happy but you can do the greatest amount of good for most people.
Socrates defined justice as a specialisation, in which every citizen does his duties in his appointed place. And remarkably, his definition lines up exactly with the words of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (fhip), who said:

“Justice means placing something into its right place.”
– The Book of Monotheism, Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (fhip), p.47


Putting everything in its right place. In other words, justice requires each person in the city to mind his own business, doing the particular job that has been allocated to him to the best of his abilities. Socrates claims that operating in this manner will allow the city to thrive, which is in everyone’s best interest. According to Socrates, an ideal society consists of three main groups of people. First are the producers, the people who make living possible – the craftsmen, farmers, and artisans. The second class is the warrior class. And finally, we have guardians or rulers, a society is just when these three classes are right and work in harmony with one another.
According to Socrates, the ruling class of the ideal society would consist of true philosophers – men and women, dominated by their rational faculties.


Buddha, Krishna, Jesus, Muhammad and even Plato have all agreed that no one can walk the path of truth alone, but that we all need brothers and sisters on our sides, that walk with us.
Building and living in a divine community is indeed a practical way to live the teachings of selflessness that the prophets and messengers have come with and the only cure for our corrupt society that has completely forgotten the concept of selflessness.

In the Bhagavad Gita, a prominent text of Hinduism, Krishna (pbuh) says,

“Those devotees are very dear to Me who are free from malice toward all living beings, who are friendly, and compassionate. They are free from attachment to possessions and egotism, equipoised in happiness and distress, and ever-forgiving.”
-Bhagavad Gita, ch. 12, verse 13-14


Imagine such a community where nobody owns more than the other, and where everything is shared. How many of our conflicts today are caused by greed, the fear of losing our possessions, the fear of being exploited or giving too much? What if we were to rid ourselves of all this by choice and through giving away and sharing all our belongings with our brothers in faith we defeat the urges of greed and selfishness that house inside every human being?

“Verily Al-Hussein (pbuh) paved the way for the Divine Just State, as if Al-Hussain (pbuh) was slaughtered in Karbala in order that the Qa’im (pbuh) from his sons reigns, and as if Al-Hussain (pbuh) was a sacrifice for the establishment of the Divine Just State, and for the rulership of Allah, the Almighty…”
– Sayings of Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (PBUH), p.100-101, hadith 208

The promised Divine Just State will be implemented in this day and age by Imam al Mahdi. A state filled with peace and love towards one another will be established and an end will come to corruption, suffering and conflict. A balanced society, in which the structures are fair to everybody without exception, a society where no man, woman or child is discriminated against. A state that is built without currency, injustice, disease and death unless murdered or by accident. The people’s necessities and needs will be taken care of. The ones in high authority will no longer be in position, equality will be established & oppression banished. Everyone will live like a king and play a role in society but live the same as their brother. A communal society will be built.

Judaism. Christianity and Islam are divided ancient tribal religions and have been involved in tribal wars since they have existed and today, and no they have never represented a communal universal culture beyond the tribal divisions Even Islam is divided along tribal boundaries.

Yes, Buddhism is a more peaceful religion, and you should become Buddhist if you want peace from your perspective above. I have been close to Buddhism since a teeager through the study of Oriental Arts,

The Baha'i Faith is by far a more peaceful religion than Islam and does teach a more universal communal relationship between religions, The Baha'i Faith has been subject unbelievable religious cleansing in Islamic countries. This violence has included Buddhism, ie the destruction of their monuments in Afghanistan.

It is not what the religion says, but the actions of the tribal religion and their divisions.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Which is why the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which were not written by Rabbis and just imaginative fantasies with zero credibility and say nothing at all about the flood height anyway.

OJB
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise; and the harim were covered.
Still no references to support your assertion, enven though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff.

Woosh!!! Wooosh!!!

False, the Torah was not written in Oxford English, and the Rabbis know better than you or I concerning how to understand and interpret the Torah written in Hebrew. The Rabbis read and recite the Tanakh in traditional Hebrew, and understand, teach and interpret it as based on the original compilation of the Pentateuch in the Hebrew text.The text is variously translated for layman, but not for Rabbis. When the tanakh is researched and studied it is in Hebrew,

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew

What Language Do Orthodox Jews Speak?
Dear Jew in the City-What language do Orthodox Jews speak? Sincerely, Madison / Dear Madison-Thanks for your question but it’s a little like asking what language Catholics speak. (I doubt very much you’d expect all Catholics to speak Latin!) Hebrew is the traditional language of the Jewish...
jewinthecity.com




jewinthecity.com
Hebrew is the traditional language of the Jewish people – that’s the language in which Tanach (the Jewish Bible) and most of our prayers are written. However, we were exiled for the umpteenth time when the second Temple was destroyed and ultimately dispersed all over the world. The center of Jewish life moved to Babylonia and Aramaic became the common language. (The Talmud is written in Aramaic.) But Jews in other lands spoke whatever was spoken in their countries of residence – German, Spanish, French, Dutch – whatever. (I’m an Orthodox Jew and I speak English!)a


From their knowledge of the Torah the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood covered the mountains and all the humans and animals perished that were not on the Ark.

The Rabbis today agree, By the way the consistent unchangeable understanding and interpretation of the Tanakh is one of the hallmarks of Orthodox Judaism. You are the one that needs lessons on the Biblical Hebrew and respect for the Rabbis.

What you have not referenced is any Rabbi that supports your unfounded assertions. You asked me to consult Rabbis and I did, and found none that support your assertions.You presented nothing but repeating your opinion over and over and over and ah . . . over again.

It is odd you stoically assert this contradictory interpretation without any supporting reference or even one Rabbi's testimony to support your assertion. It is a fruitless stoic Mission. It is all mythology without a shred of anything beyond your assertion.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No, you are doing that. Propagandists like you always project what they're doing on the opposition. Goebbels and Bernays mastered that art and you are doing exactly that


View attachment 86049
You face many problems in your posts. It is like you are in a glass house throwing stones.

You mock science and misrepresent it..

Yes, again you are dishonest about science and mock science with false assertion in the above.

Yes, if you keep telling lies about the sciences of evolution, some intentionally ignorant based on an ancient tribal agenda will believe you.
 

Monty

Active Member
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was clearly only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing at all about the actual flood height anyway. And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that other interpretations are totally meaningless and useless anyway unless they state what the actual flood height was.

And obviously the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible based their interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the total flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
 
Last edited:

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
IOW from their knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was clearly only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing at all about the actual flood height anyway. And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that other interpretations are totally meaningless and useless anyway unless they state what the actual flood height was.

And obviously the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible based their interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the total flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
Still no references to support your assertion, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references form Rabbis and recognized academic or religious leaders to support your assertions, and you have provided none.

Woosh!!! Wooosh!!!

False, the Torah was not written in Oxford English, and the Rabbis know better than you or I concerning how to understand and interpret the Torah written in Hebrew. The Rabbis read and recite the Tanakh in traditional Hebrew, and understand, teach and interpret it as based on the original compilation of the Pentateuch in the Hebrew text.The text is variously translated for layman, but not for Rabbis. When the tanakh is researched and studied it is in Hebrew,

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
 
Last edited:

Monty

Active Member
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
Still no references to support your assertion that the Orthodox Jewish Bible says the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references from Rabbis and recognized academic or religious leaders to support your assertions that the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, and you have provided none.
And you also need an understanding of the English language as used by the Rabbis to write the Orthodox Jewish Bible.

IOW from their expert knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was clearly only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing at all about the actual flood height anyway.

And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that the false interpretations by evangelicals selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees are wrong and totally meaningless since they don't even mention what the actual flood height was.

And the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible obviously also based their expert interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the TORAH clearly says the maximum flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
 
Last edited:

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Still no references to support your assertion that the Orthodox Jewish Bible says the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references from Rabbis and recognized academic or religious leaders to support your assertions that the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, and you have provided none.
And you also need an understanding of the English language as used by the Rabbis to write the Orthodox Jewish Bible.

IOW from their expert knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible said the flood was clearly only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing at all about the actual flood height anyway.

And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that the false interpretations by evangelicals selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees are wrong and totally meaningless since they don't even mention what the actual flood height was.

And the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible obviously also based their expert interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the TORAH clearly says the maximum flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
Still no references to support your assertion, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references form Rabbis and recognized Christian theologians, academic or religious leaders to support your assertions, and you have provided none.

All this is your own personal interpretation nothing else.
Woosh!!! Wooosh!!!

False, the Torah was not written in Oxford English, and the Rabbis know better than you or I concerning how to understand and interpret the Torah written in Hebrew. The Rabbis read and recite the Tanakh in traditional Hebrew, and understand, teach and interpret it as based on the original compilation of the Pentateuch in the Hebrew text.The text is variously translated for layman, but not for Rabbis. When the tanakh is researched and studied it is in Hebrew,

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
 

Monty

Active Member
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
Still no references to support your assertion that the Torah and Orthodox Jewish Bible say the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references from Rabbis and recognized academic or religious leaders to support your assertions that the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, and you have provided none.
And you also need an understanding of the English language as used by the Rabbis to write the Orthodox Jewish Bible.

IOW from their expert knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible clearly said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing whatsoever about the actual flood height anyway.

And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that the false interpretations by evangelicals selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees are wrong and totally meaningless since they don't even mention what the actual flood height was.

And the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible obviously also based their expert interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the TORAH clearly says the maximum flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
 
Last edited:

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Still no references to support your assertion that the Torah and Orthodox Jewish Bible say the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references from Rabbis and recognized academic or religious leaders to support your assertions that the flood covered Mt Everest by 15 cubits, and you have provided none.
And you also need an understanding of the English language as used by the Rabbis to write the Orthodox Jewish Bible.

References provided by the testimony of Rabbis today it was believed the flood covered all mountains and all the animals and humans perished as recorded and believed by those that compiled the Pentateuch believed it was a literal world flood. You have provided no references to support your opinion'.

Though many to day believe sincerely that it was a world flood covering all the mountains,as described in the Bible:

But Noah’s flood is critical to that question. Simply put, if that flood was a global, year-long, catastrophic event about 4,500 years ago, as Genesis appears to teach, then it is very reasonable to conclude that it would have produced an incredible amount of erosion and sedimentation and would have buried many plants and animals in those sediments, which would later become fossils as the sediments hardened into rock. Creation geologists believe the flood would have produced exactly the kind of geological features that we see all over the earth, as, for example, are beautifully displayed in the walls of the Grand Canyon in Arizona, USA. These Bible-believing geologists think that most (not all) of the fossil-bearing sedimentary rock layers are the result of the flood. But secular geologists, who reject God’s eyewitness testimony in Genesis 6–9, say those rock layers were formed over hundreds of millions of years. So, if the flood produced most of the fossiliferous sedimentary layers around the world, then those layers cannot be the result of hundreds of millions of years of erosion and sedimentation, as the secularists claim.


IOW from their expert knowledge and understanding of the Torah, the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible clearly said the flood was only 15 cubits high and the harim were covered, and did not say that the harim were covered by 15 cubits as falsely claimed in the fake versions which are not written by Rabbis and say absolutely nothing whatsoever about the actual flood height anyway.


And other Rabbis all agree that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and that the false interpretations by evangelicals selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees are wrong and totally meaningless since they don't even mention what the actual flood height was.

And the Rabbis who wrote the Orthodox Jewish Bible obviously also based their expert interpretation about the actual flood height on the order in which the Hebrew symbols are written, and why they included a semi-colon in their bible to fully clarify that the TORAH clearly says the maximum flood height was only 15 cubits. Genesis 7:20 Hebrew Text Analysis

Genesis 7:20
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Hebrew
Strong'sHebrewEnglishMorphology
2568 [e]חֲמֵ֨שׁ
ḥă-mêš
FiveNumber-fsc
6240 [e]עֶשְׂרֵ֤ה
‘eś-rêh
[and] tenNumber-fsc
520 [e]אַמָּה֙
’am-māh
cubitsN-fs
4605 [e]מִלְמַ֔עְלָה
mil-ma‘-lāh,
upwardPrep-m, Prep-l | Adv | 3fs
1396 [e]גָּבְר֖וּ
gā-ḇə-rū
prevailedV-Qal-Perf-3cp
4325 [e]הַמָּ֑יִם
ham-mā-yim;
the watersArt | N-mp
3680 [e]וַיְכֻסּ֖וּ
way-ḵus-sū
and were coveredConj-w | V-Pual-ConsecImperf-3mp
2022 [e]הֶהָרִֽים׃
he-hā-rîm.
the mountainsArt | N-mp
Still no references to support your assertion, even though your posts are getting longer with meaningless stuff. You need references form Rabbis and recognized Christian theologians, academic or religious leaders to support your assertions, and you have provided none.

All this is your own personal interpretation nothing else.
Woosh!!! Wooosh!!!

False, the Torah was not written in Oxford English, and the Rabbis know better than you or I concerning how to understand and interpret the Torah written in Hebrew. The Rabbis read and recite the Tanakh in traditional Hebrew, and understand, teach and interpret it as based on the original compilation of the Pentateuch in the Hebrew text.The text is variously translated for layman, but not for Rabbis. When the tanakh is researched and studied it is in Hebrew,

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise and the harim were covered.
No punctuation nor semi-colons in Biblical Hebrew
 
Last edited:

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The authors of the New Testament believed in a literal Noah flood.


New Testament references to the Flood

Matthew 24:37–39“For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.”
Luke 17:26–27“Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.”
Hebrews 11:7“By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.”
1 Peter 3:20“… because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.”
2 Peter 3:5–6“For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.”
2 Peter 2:4–5“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly.”

This has presented problems with theologians and believers for millennia, because based on the Testimony of the authors was a literal flood and a literal Pentateuch.

As per the subject of the thread Islam bases their belief on a literal Pentateuch and Quran that is inspired and believed in the continuity of history in the Pentateuch.
 
Last edited:
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