Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I think you have overlooked the millennia of homophobia, gleefully endorsed by the Abrahamic religions.
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The Problem with "Fighting" Homosexuality
- Thread starter dgirl1986
- Start date
I think you have overlooked the millennia of homophobia, gleefully endorsed by the Abrahamic religions.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
You know - what would be the emoticon for chuckling sympathetically?
I don't know but, that's where I'm at...
Really? Homophobia?
I think not.
Historically, your "millenia of homophobia" would be more rightly viewed as the "condescending aversion of one's eyes" from semi socially unacceptable behaviors... "Homophobia" is a modern phenomena, largely invented by militant homosexuals.
And, that's funny.
Also, the implication is that hiding one sexual practices due to "the millennia of homophobia," is more traumatic than being married; having children; and doing whatever else in life that one must do to thrive and survive.
That's also funny.
Trying to avoid society's opprobrium over one's male homosexual acts just doesn't seem to meet the standard of horror and shame with which other non approved societal behaviors, such as being a Jew for instance, or marrying someone of another race, or being a poor petty thief... etc., were viewed by the world at large.
What do you think? Which person is going to suffer more - the monk who is dicking his boyfriend in the cloisters or the monk who decides to marry a negro?
History tells us that homosexuality was largely ignored or even encouraged in almost every culture on Earth.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
It appears to have been "invented" by the Abrahamic religions.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
I can see that one liners appear to be your forte but, is there any way that you are able to historically elucidate your fantasy?
Just curious.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Decades ago it was ruled that "separate but equal" violates the constitution. This issue was already decided when the courts ruled that black people have the right to have full access to things white people have access to. And as history shows, the "separate" part does not at all create equality, but rather deepens and exacerbates inequality.
So? Plenty of homosexuals and bisexuals wouldn't have it any other way. Plenty of people with autism are happy, and do not want to be neurotypical.
It is increasing because the GLBT community is finding more acceptance in society, and it is becoming increasingly socially unacceptable to harass and discriminate against the GLBT community. If it seems there are more of us, it's because society is becoming more accepting of us.
EVERY relationship has difficulties, and neither one is inherently easier than the other. EVERY relationship requires work, sacrifice, and dedication.
So militant homosexuals invented having their property vandalized, getting themselves fired, evicted from their homes, harassed, discriminated against, beaten, and killed?
Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
Of course! It's all part of the gay conspiracy/agenda.
Also us bisexuals are off the hook once again. Whew.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Really?
So... you are saying that it just as easy to have a relationship with a member of the opposite sex as it is to have a relationship with member of the same sex?
That is so odd.
Try to understand that almost EVERY totally heterosexual human being on planet Earth would disagree with you. And, as far as I can tell, most people who favor same sex relationships would also disagree with you.
It is an obvious axiom that it is far easier to have a relationship with a member of the same sex than the opposite sex.
I don't understand why you would even want to try and refute this.
Really.
Why?
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I really can't be bothered. I disagree with homophobes on principle.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Pretty much....
It's like this - were homosexuals treated the same way that Africans or Chinese were treated in America? Or how Jews have been treated worldwide?
Is there a several thousand year old history of mankind doing bad things to homosexuals in the same ratio as other despised groups?
And, the answer is no. There is not.
Retarded kids were treated a lot worse than homosexuals in "modern times." So were Gypsies.
This idea that homosexuals were a special class of people needed special protections due to homophobia, "Fear of Homosexuality," is a myth.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Of course not. Must be a gay thing on your part...
Personally, I think homosexuals are fabulous.
Sorry about your phobias.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
This is all I really needed to see. Such words seethe with bigotry and contempt.
I'm guessing there may have been (most likely) homosexual slaves in America, homosexual Chinese, Irish, German, and other immigrants. And today homosexuals have their property vandalized and destroyed by bigots, bigots are known for firing GLBT people from their job just for being GLBT, bigots have evicted GLBT people from their homes just for being GLBT, bigots have denied medical services to people who are GLBT, bigots have also beaten and killed people who are GLBT. It's simply absurd and devoid of any thought to think we just make up all this stuff that happens, or maybe we do it to ourselves because it does happen, but it's equally ridiculous to think we go around doing this to each other.
Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
I've dated both men and women, there was no fundamental difference in difficulty with the relationships nor with the love present, the desire present and so on.
Polling straight or gay people about this is baffling, why wouldn't you poll bisexual people?
Skwim
Veteran Member
How about simple equal rights? Isn't that worth establishing and protecting?
As for your " 'Fear of Homosexuality,' is a myth," this simplistic parsed reading of the word "homo" (same) + phobia (fear) is simply half-witted. Used today, the term means something quite different:
ho·mo·pho·bi·a
ˌhōməˈfōbēə/
noun
noun: homophobia
- dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
You are incredibly educational.
And I thank you for that.
As far as I can tell, you represent a significant majority. You are "vocal" and strongly opinionated and have a palpable disdain for history. For all practical purposes, what exists "today;" or for the last 30 or 40 years is your measuring stick for all of your opinions.
If something existed for thousands of years but current "modern" opinions no longer refer to this past, such as the word "retard," then that past never existed.
This is a world destroying phenomenon.
The philosopher George Santayana said: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Drolefille
PolyPanGeekGirl
Do you understand your argument works as well for advocating for slavery as for advocating against same-sex marriage?
Similarly, as the n word is no longer considered acceptable, using the word "retard" is now considered to be inappropriate. Learning from the past doesn't mean staying there, it means learning the lesson it taught you - that equality is a good thing, that separate but equal isn't the same, that allowing religious beliefs to run things sounds fun if it's YOUR beliefs but when it's someone else's religion it's not so good, so maybe we keep those things separate.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Lovely.
Thank you for clearing that one up.
I wrongly presumed that when gay folk referred to homophobia, they were imputing that heterosexuals were afraid of homosexuals. I have often heard this idea in discussions of gay rights in terms of how ridiculous it was that heterosexuals should be afraid that homosexuality was going to make heterosexuals "gay."
It seemed like a natural conclusion being that a phobia is a fear. But, you have corrected me and I will accept that.
Based on your definition, there is a great deal of homophobia going on. And, there is also a great deal of "heterophobia" going on among gay folk. And, a whole bunch of whiteophobia going on among racist black folk. And, so on and so forth.
There is, indeed, a whole lot of dislike or prejudice against various peoples all over the world.
Such is life.
As far as "equal rights" goes - as I noted in my original post above, I am a bit leery about making a public case for what kind of sexual practices in which people engage.
I don't think it is a public "right" for people to fornicate. I don't really care how much fun it might be or how deeply committed one might be to their spouse or to their hand or to their middle digit.
But, I realize that I am just a minority "religious fanatic" in this regard.
Nonetheless, to paraphrase Galileo - "Eppure non dovrebbe muoversi in pubblico." "And yet, it should not move in public."
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
"Retarded kids were treated a lot worse than homosexuals in "modern times." So were Gypsies." is a non prejudicial historically accurate statement.
"Mentally disabled kids were treated a lot worse than homosexuals" in "modern times" is both untrue and a non sequitur.
"Mentally handicapped kids" would also be offensive based on your rules. "Disabled" is the word choice of the day.
Your "n" word example is a very good one. White Americans have removed a word from the public lexicon for fear that black racists will take offense. This would be funny if it were not so frighteningly true.
This idea that language should be abrogated as to not offend someone is a new concept based on the idea that "offending someone" is a worse crime than almost any other, including murder and rape.
In the not so distant past, people who had good manners refrained from offending others by refraining from using bad language. As this moral internal safeguard is no longer applicable in today's "modern" age of "if it feels good, do it," people want Big Brother to dictate what is acceptable.
Unfortunately, Big Brother is a Pig and the only words that Big Brother finds unacceptable are those that offend him.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Fabulous: Extraordinary; remarkable; exceptional; amazingly good; wonderful; mythical...
Skwim
Veteran Member
It's more than just the right to engage in homosexual sex, it's having the right to marry. The right to be protected against bullying (often people have turned a blind eye to the practice). The right to adopt. The right to equal employment (discrimination has been quite prevalent in this area). The right to serve in the military. The right to be protected from hate crimes. The right to conjugal visits.