The Problem with "Fighting" Homosexuality

[psychoslice]

Weak minded humans have always got to put something down, if its not the blacks or any other race, its homosexuals, by this putting down of others makes them feel superior, its been happening right through history.

 

[ChristineES]

Someone who is not gay could not understand and there is so much misinformation surrounding it.



Sin is a religious term really. I dont see anything as sin. Just good or bad, right or wrong etc.



Wouldnt that be the fault of the "creator"



This depends on the person. My sexuality is a part of my identity but it stops there.

You're right. I should say "certain sex acts could be a sin according to my faith". Someone who does not follow my faith will not see it the same way I would. As for sins, I try to worry about my own and not judge others

 

[ChristineES]

Weak minded humans have always got to put something down, if its not the blacks or any other race, its homosexuals, by this putting down of others makes them feel superior, its been happening right through history.

True. People put down others in order to try and bring themselves up. It always backfires.

 

[1robin]

So... who a person is, is sin? But not who your are, of course. That's very convenient, and darn mean-spirited, wrapped up in a thin veneer of "I'm not condemning anyone." It's the same thing as the "separate-but-equal" vermin who spout off about not being prejudiced.

That was just plain weird. I can judge theft without condemning a thief, I can judge homosexual sex without judging a specific homosexual. I have no idea what your talking about.

 

[1robin]

Problem is, homosexuality isn't an action, like theft or smoking. Homosexuality is the very identity of the person. So, when you condemn homosexuality as sin, you're saying that the person is sin!

You do not know that and even if it was true you could not know it was, but it does not matter because I have said over and over and over that what my argument concerns is homosexual sex.

Human is their identity, homosexuality is merely their preference (or we may eventually find out their natural orientation). I do believe homosexuality is a sin but that is not part of my original secular argument about homosexual sex and no a person isn't an orientation. I am me not heterosexuality. I am me not engineering. I am me not right handedness. I am me not taxpayers. I am oriented towards those things and activities but I am not them myself. When I start seeing the claims of victimhood and the creation of false moral high grounds I know the other side ran out of arguments.

 

[1robin]

But you're not really accepting homosexuals, when you identify their very being as "sin."

You need to redefine a homosexual as a person. Homosexuality is possibly an orientation and definitely a behavior. I have Christian love for the person but not his orientation. The exact same way I take care of alcoholics at my house. I hate their alcoholism but I care about them as a human being. I think your doing a disservice to them by reducing their identity as a human being to an identity as a homosexual. Their is infinity more to a human being that their sexual taste.

 

[1robin]

So, where's the equality or the dignity in heterosexuals being able to express themselves, but homosexuals not being able to express themselves?

First where are you getting this equality and dignity idea from. Did I say that somewhere?

Abraham Lincoln gave a speech on equality. He was truly a brilliant man. He said all men are equal under God but not all men are equal in all things. We have differing colors, differing intellectual capabilities, we are different heights, received different educations. IOW our only equality is our worth or value to God. God does not love the Jews better or assign them higher value than the Germans, tall people more than short ones, white people more than black, etc......... I think a homosexual is just as valuable and loved by God as the straightest man who ever lived but I do not believe God loves his orientation or the acts done as a result. Unlike Islam and many other faiths my God infinitely loves us all despite our failings and has paid the entire price to redeem us from them (even the ones we continue to struggle with) but God hates the sins we do. My views are the same but a pale reflection. I care about gays as much as anyone but I do not like their orientation and the destruction that acting on it causes. I am a sinner as well and treat other sinners how I wish to be treated. That is exactly my duty before God and I try very hard to live up to it. Homosexuals are the same as me, we fall short and need God's forgiveness.

 

[sojourner]

That was just plain weird. I can judge theft without condemning a thief, I can judge homosexual sex without judging a specific homosexual. I have no idea what your talking about.

Theft isn't an act of love and intimacy between two people who identify with each other. The homosexual act can no more be said to be "sin" than a heterosexual act. It's weird that you think they're different in any emotional way. They differ only in some mechanics.

 

[sojourner]

You do not know that and even if it was true you could not know it was, but it does not matter because I have said over and over and over that what my argument concerns is homosexual sex.

Heterosexuality is part of human identity. What makes homosexuality materially different?
As I stated above, there is no difference between the two, other than some mechanics.

 

[sojourner]

I am me not heterosexuality. I am me not engineering. I am me not right handedness. I am me not taxpayers. I am oriented towards those things and activities but I am not them myself.

Of course you are. You are heterosexual; it's how you identify yourself according to your sexual orientation. Just like you are a man.

When I start seeing the claims of victimhood and the creation of false moral high grounds I know the other side ran out of arguments.

What's the "false morality" you're referencing? And when a minority (who typically has less power and less voice in society -- and less "standing" in society) is denied either the dignity of normal relations with people due to their orientation, then they may, indeed, be victims.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I do believe homosexuality is a sin

Shame on you again. You are not a Christian and I am tired of your pathetic opinions.

 

[sojourner]

You need to redefine a homosexual as a person. Homosexuality is possibly an orientation and definitely a behavior.

A person who identifies as homosexual does have a particular orientation. That issue was put to rest by the professional mental health community with the issuance of the DSM IV twenty years ago. The orientation is not an aberration, but is a normal, healthy expression of that person's sexual identity.

I have Christian love for the person but not his orientation.

You cannot love a person if you cant love who that person is. Our sexual identity -- whether gay or straight -- is a HUGE part of who we are.

The exact same way I take care of alcoholics at my house. I hate their alcoholism but I care about them as a human being.

So, now what you're saying is that the homosexual orientation, which has been declared "normal" by the mental health community, is a disease???

I think your doing a disservice to them by reducing their identity as a human being to an identity as a homosexual.

I'm not "reducing" their identity. I'm acknowledging that sexual identity is an important part of who we are, and it cannot be condemned as "sin," or treated as a disease. If anything, you're the one who's reducing their identity by treating who they are as less than fully human.

 

[sojourner]

First where are you getting this equality and dignity idea from. Did I say that somewhere?

Abraham Lincoln gave a speech on equality. He was truly a brilliant man. He said all men are equal under God but not all men are equal in all things. We have differing colors, differing intellectual capabilities, we are different heights, received different educations. IOW our only equality is our worth or value to God. God does not love the Jews better or assign them higher value than the Germans, tall people more than short ones, white people more than black, etc......... I think a homosexual is just as valuable and loved by God as the straightest man who ever lived but I do not believe God loves his orientation or the acts done as a result. Unlike Islam and many other faiths my God infinitely loves us all despite our failings and has paid the entire price to redeem us from them (even the ones we continue to struggle with) but God hates the sins we do. My views are the same but a pale reflection. I care about gays as much as anyone but I do not like their orientation and the destruction that acting on it causes. I am a sinner as well and treat other sinners how I wish to be treated. That is exactly my duty before God and I try very hard to live up to it. Homosexuals are the same as me, we fall short and need God's forgiveness.

This is exactly the same argument employed in discrimination of both women and blacks.

The problem with your God, apparently, is that (according to you) he set some of us up for automatic failure, based upon the "fact" that God created some of us homosexual, but then does not love the homosexuality God created some of us to be. Just as some were created by God to be the "wrong" color, or the "wrong" sex. Paul said that there is no more Jew or Greek, man or woman. And he could just as easily have added black or white, gay or straight. That's the equality and the dignity I'm talking about.

I submit that you don't really feel love for your homosexual sisters and brothers, because love implies an equality -- and you have patently said that homosexuals are not your equal, because they are inferior due to their homosexuality. What you feel is more a self-righteous pity. Which is really quite sad.

 

[Revasser]

I just...

Why would you want to fight something that is so much fun?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What you feel is more a self-righteous pity. Which is really quite sad.

Either that or moral indignation. But yes, it is sad.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem with fighting homosexuality is that its hard to hold hands when your hand is a fist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's pure hypocrisy. They like to single out homosexuals, but they ignore all the heterosexual Christians getting divorces, cheating on their spouse or any of the other "sins" from the bible.

That's been brought up before. And you're absolutely right. Cherry-picking is quite strong with that crowd.

Christians love to hate more than anything else. It's easy to hate, but it's way to difficult for them to follow the "turn the other cheek" parts of the bible.

I wouldn't go that far. Some Christians will love to hate, but not all of them. Many are struggling with mainstream commercialized Christianity that is so ubiquitous in our culture while practicing a sincere faith that teaches them to love their neighbor. Our culture doesn't help, though, in it's shaming of the poor and the marginalized that is the demographic the Christian doctrine teaches to love and help and serve the most. For most Christians, they feel as if they're caught between a rock and a hard place.

Culture wins out most of the time when they must pick a side, unfortunately. It's an overwhelming influence.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's pure hypocrisy. They like to single out homosexuals, but they ignore all the heterosexual Christians getting divorces, cheating on their spouse or any of the other "sins" from the bible.
Christians love to hate more than anything else. It's easy to hate, but it's way to difficult for them to follow the "turn the other cheek" parts of the bible.

You really need to use that prefix, "some", before "Christians". A great many of my Xian brethren & sistern here eschew hate in favor of friendship.

 

[Drolefille]

I made it through 5 of 8 pages before I give up but I just want to add this in here.

If all bees were worker bees, bees would die out. Worker bees are infertile. That doesn't mean that worker bees aren't beneficial and necessary to the bee "community" as it were.

There are suggested evolutionary reasons for non-heterosexuality (even though the modern concept of homosexuality is just that, a modern concept. Every culture perceives these things differently.). It's possible that it's tied to a gene related to having children, it's possible you have better survival rates in children with gay relatives because there are non-child bearing relatives who help to raise the child.

Regardless we're not tied to pure survival any more. We're not immune from natural selection but we do have far more control over our sexual selection and choices than we did before. There's really no point in going "BUT IF EVERYONE WAS GAY" because everyone isn't.

 

[joshua3886]

You really need to use that prefix, "some", before "Christians". A great many of my Xian brethren & sistern here eschew hate in favor of friendship.

"Some" isn't a prefix, it's a word. If you want to be nit picky I can be nit picky, too.