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The Problems with the Qur'an

Why If the Qur'an is true and clear Arabic, why are there so many sects?...
The recording of the Qur'an could have had errors...

I believe that covers about all the objections...The funny thing is, noone has posted anything about the hijab, polygamy, prohibition of interest....I thought that these would be the biggest issues,

guess starting this thread was a good idea.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
we have bigger fish to fry than to bicker about hijab, polygyny, and interest.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
ymirgf said:
Besides, when Muslim armies arrived at a given destination they would often give the other side three choices.

1. To "revert" and submit to Islam.
2. To accept Dhimmi status with Muslims ruling over them and to pay the jizya.
3. Fight.

Given that this was purely a Muslim tactic, I do not understand how it can be construed as anything BUT compulsion. There was no 4th option of "If you are not interested, we will just go away in peace."
I agree that each of these 3 choices are form of compulsion and coercion. And really not much of choice.

I betacha that most converted because they didn't want to pay jizya, hence is coercing the people into converting to Islam. The worse problem is that the Dhmmi status is basically making the non-Muslim people as second-citizens in their own countries, another reason to convert, which is again coercion.
 

neves

Active Member
I agree that each of these 3 choices are form of compulsion and coercion. And really not much of choice.

I betacha that most converted because they didn't want to pay jizya, hence is coercing the people into converting to Islam. The worse problem is that the Dhmmi status is basically making the non-Muslim people as second-citizens in their own countries, another reason to convert, which is again coercion.

Actually the Non Muslims did not pay the Zakat which the Muslims payed...

inform yourself here... if you would like...

Jizyah: A Humiliation to Dhimmis? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
 
That really has to be one of the more hilarious descriptions of Jizyah and dhimmitude that I have read. Thanks for the laughs.

Hmm...I found it quite accurate. But nonetheless,

Jizya and dhimmi status the Qur'an speak about (also a popular one)
And I guess the concept of Islamic wars and submission of the opposer, although not directly a problem with the Qur'an
 

kai

ragamuffin
O.K. I have a deal for you. Either (1) deconvert to atheism (2) Pay a significant portion of your income to atheists (3) risk your life to defend your freedom not to be an atheist. Sound fair to you?

sound far to me! and remember there's no compulsion in Atheism
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
Here is my problem with the Quran: People don't seem to read it and follow it. They try to use it to justify themselves and their behavior rather than trying to study the Quran and adjust their lives to be in harmony with it's teachings. The Bible has a similar problem.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Here is my problem with the Quran: People don't seem to read it and follow it. They try to use it to justify themselves and their behavior rather than trying to study the Quran and adjust their lives to be in harmony with it's teachings. The Bible has a similar problem.

Kinda seems like that problem exists on both sides of the coin. :shrug:
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Here is my problem with the Quran: People don't seem to read it and follow it.
Actually, that is untrue. Most Muslims are quite familiar with the Qur'an and read it everyday. To their credit they try to emulate its teachings as best as they are able to understand... be that Osama bin Hidin' or Imam Rauf. It's all in the interpretation and there is much that can be interpreted almost any way one likes.

They try to use it to justify themselves and their behavior rather than trying to study the Quran and adjust their lives to be in harmony with it's teachings. The Bible has a similar problem.
If true, this would certainly be reason enough to toss both tombs onto the scrapheap of dead-end thinking.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Why If the Qur'an is true and clear Arabic, why are there so many sects?...
The recording of the Qur'an could have had errors...

There is also the problem with the allegorical verses:

Allah says: "He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed." (Al `Imran: 7)

There are many interpretations to these verses but only Men of understanding really heed its meaning,so the Qur'an has clear and lucid verses and allegorical verses that some Muslims interpret how they wish instead of referring back to the clear verses for the meaning,this is a problem and for a book thats supposedly clear seems at odds.

I believe that covers about all the objections...The funny thing is, noone has posted anything about the hijab, polygamy, prohibition of interest....I thought that these would be the biggest issues,

I think thats a start,there are other problems that Uthman tried to iron out when he standardised the Qur'an:

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) ..." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. ..."

This problem was evident even in the time of Muhammed:

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61
Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:
I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."


guess starting this thread was a good idea.

Time will tell:)
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Looking at this ahadith for example raises another problem for me:

Allah says: "He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed." (Al `Imran: 7)

The part highlighted in red is a problem for me,why would an all knowing powerful being send down verses that only said entity can explain,and even those who heed this advice and refer back to the clear and lucid verses make the allegorical verses redundant.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
One of my main problems is that I can hardly understand a word of it. Is it the translation? Does it make more sense in Arabic? Because in English a lot of it reads like gibberish, such as the passage above. The second sentence just does not scan for me.

Again, if the qur'an is just a book, who cares. But if an almighty God thinks it's important for me to understand what He wants of me, then He should make it a heck of a lot more clear.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Which coin are we talking about here? Christianity and Islam?

Pro-religion x and anti-religion x; the problem of using a text to justify hatred either for a religion, or for those who don't follow that religion.

It seems like many people are guilty of that.
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
Actually, that is untrue. Most Muslims are quite familiar with the Qur'an and read it everyday. To their credit they try to emulate its teachings as best as they are able to understand... be that Osama bin Hidin' or Imam Rauf. It's all in the interpretation and there is much that can be interpreted almost any way one likes.
Here is what I question. Are these Muslims reading the Quran and interpreting it for themselves? Or are they letting someone else teach them what the correct interpretation. I don't know that many muslims, and the ones I have met seem like decent people so I really can't judge. But it does seem that an unhealthily large proportion of Islam depends too much on tradition and scholars to tell them what is right and wrong, rather than getting their knowledge directly from the Quran and Allah. Perhaps I am just projecting the weaknesses of my own culture onto one I am not familiar enough with.

DavyCrocket2003 said:
They try to use it to justify themselves and their behavior rather than trying to study the Quran and adjust their lives to be in harmony with it's teachings. The Bible has a similar problem.
If true, this would certainly be reason enough to toss both tombs onto the scrapheap of dead-end thinking.[/QUOTE]Hmm... I suppose that is the solution that many people are arriving at. I can understand why many people reject their religion. There is a lot of corruption, manipulation, deceit, and plain old evil within religion. Many people grow up believing that what they have always been taught is perfect and beyond reproach or questioning. When that bubble bursts, many people give up hope in God. Too bad :(. When people become dissatisfied with the things they have always been taught and the half explanations they have always been given, and really begin an honest, desperate search for truth, they have begun a journey that will take them to heights they could never have imagined, if pursued diligently...
 

fatima_bintu_islam

Active Member
One of my main problems is that I can hardly understand a word of it. Is it the translation? Does it make more sense in Arabic? Because in English a lot of it reads like gibberish, such as the passage above. The second sentence just does not scan for me.

Again, if the qur'an is just a book, who cares. But if an almighty God thinks it's important for me to understand what He wants of me, then He should make it a heck of a lot more clear.


You may even make an effort and learn Arabic

( After all, I can come up with really great original ideas sometimes WoW :cool:)
 
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