The prophet peace be upon him and his wives

[Autodidact]

Slavery is not Islamic? How on earth do you come up with that?

It's authorized in the quran.
It was practiced throughout the Caliphate.
Muslim traders have enslaved and sold more human beings than any other single group in human history.
Slavery was practiced in every Muslim country until recently.
The prophet owned slaves.
The quran provides extensive regulation for how and when to keep and free slaves, and never prohibits it.

• 33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."
• 24:58 "O ye who believe! Let your slaves, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence)."
• 33:25-26 "Allah repulsed the disbelievers in their wrath; they gained no good. Allah averted their attack from the believers. Allah is ever Strong, Mighty. And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.

I don't hate God, since there is no such thing. I hate slavery. I hate the centuries during which Muslim slave traders enslaved and sold into bondage millions of free human beings, all consistent with their religious beliefs, religious practices, and the model of their prophet.

And I really hate modern people, who should know better, defending, rationalizing, and denying the facts.

I realize this is a problem for you Muslims. You know that slavery is wrong, and you know your book and prophet both authorize it. It's sad to watch you try to wrestle with that contradiction.

There is nothing bigoted about telling the truth.

If I were you, I would be first in line to condemn slavery, not condone it as the Muslims in this thread have done. They give Islam a bad name.

 

[bowingtoGod]

Slavery is not Islamic? How on earth do you come up with that?

It's authorized in the quran.
It was practiced throughout the Caliphate.
Muslim traders have enslaved and sold more human beings than any other single group in human history.
Slavery was practiced in every Muslim country until recently.
The prophet owned slaves.
The quran provides extensive regulation for how and when to keep and free slaves, and never prohibits it.

• 33:55 "It is no sin for them (thy wives) to converse freely) with their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or the sons of their sisters or of their own women, or their slaves."
• 24:58 "O ye who believe! Let your slaves, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence)."
• 33:25-26 "Allah repulsed the disbelievers in their wrath; they gained no good. Allah averted their attack from the believers. Allah is ever Strong, Mighty. And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.

I don't hate God, since there is no such thing. I hate slavery. I hate the centuries during which Muslim slave traders enslaved and sold into bondage millions of free human beings, all consistent with their religious beliefs, religious practices, and the model of their prophet.

And I really hate modern people, who should know better, defending, rationalizing, and denying the facts.

I realize this is a problem for you Muslims. You know that slavery is wrong, and you know your book and prophet both authorize it. It's sad to watch you try to wrestle with that contradiction.

There is nothing bigoted about telling the truth.

If I were you, I would be first in line to condemn slavery, not condone it as the Muslims in this thread have done. They give Islam a bad name.

PLEASE!! This isn't a moral issue for you! This is just an "Muslims are bad wahhh wahh wahh". Slavery is done and over with. You have a problem with Muslims, instead of trying to insult them, let them be! "rational" people such as yourself are fine aren't they? Why should what others believe hurt you?
Perhaps you forget the Qur'anic verses which say to free slaves, that freeing slaves is good, or how all the Sahabi went to great lengths to free slaves?
Yes slavery is allowed in Islam, but only under certain circumstances and it is heavily HEAVILY implied to free them (for that is better)
And why not looking into a Muslim website and see what Islam says, instead of getting things from atheistic anti religion websites? That is like trying to understand what the Bible says from evilbible.com or something. You care little for what Islam has to say and only want to argue.
You can hate whatever you want. It is still hate. Does it make you feel better that you hating something does nothing for other people?
The only way you can remove something forever is not by hating it, but by changing people's hearts. You really want to see Muslim people change their minds? Then don't insult their religion. Engage in respectful dialogue.
And why should you care if Islam "gets a bad name"? What matter is it to you?

 

[waitasec]

i don't think the problem lies with muslims, the problem lies with slavery.
it is an unavoidable uncomfortable fact
and knowing this makes you squirm along with them christians...
please....

 

[Autodidact]

PLEASE!! This isn't a moral issue for you! This is just an "Muslims are bad wahhh wahh wahh". Slavery is done and over with.

No, it is not.

The number of slaves today remains as high as 12 million[2] to 27 million... slavery is still endemic in Sudan. n Mauritania alone, it is estimated that up to 600,000 men, women and children, or 20% of the population, are enslaved with many used as bonded labour In Niger, slavery is also a current phenomenon. A Nigerian study has found that more than 800,000 people are enslaved, almost 8% of the populationSome tribal sheiks in Iraq still keep blacks, called Abd, which means servant or slave in Arabic, as slaves.

[wiki]

,You have a problem with Muslims, instead of trying to insult them, let them be!

If you dispute any fact I have stated, please say so, and then demonstrate that I am wrong. My motive is irrelevant, and in any case you have no way to read my mind.

"rational" people such as yourself are fine aren't they?

Yes, because we don't keep slaves, endorse slavery, or belong to a religion that does.

Why should what others believe hurt you?

I care about other people and the truth.
This conversation started because a Muslim in this thread made the false statement that Islam liberated the slaves. This is completely, totally and utterly the opposite of reality. In other words, it is false. I entered the conversation to correct that falsehood. For some reason, other Muslims then jumped in to rationalize and condone Muslim slavery! I find this despicable. What about you?

Perhaps you forget the Qur'anic verses which say to free slaves, that freeing slaves is good, or how all the Sahabi went to great lengths to free slaves?

Well, they're kind of like extra good deeds you can do if you like, on special occasions. Nowhere in the quran does it say to free all your slaves all the time. It just doesn't. It's not there. The quran clearly and unequivocally permits slavery. So on what basis do you claim it's unIslamic? It's permitted in the quran, was carried on by the prophet, and accepted by the vast majority of Muslims throughout the history of Islam. How did it suddenly become unIslamic?

Yes slavery is allowed in Islam, but only under certain circumstances and it is heavily HEAVILY implied to free them (for that is better)

What circumstances?

And why not looking into a Muslim website and see what Islam says, instead of getting things from atheistic anti religion websites?

I don't. Read my posts. They're from nuetral websites, like wiki and Encyclopedia Britannica. Pro and anti-Islam websites are both suspect.

That is like trying to understand what the Bible says from evilbible.com or something.

If I did it. But I don't.

You care little for what Islam has to say and only want to argue.

I care about the truth. btw, argument is what this forum is for. If you don't want to argue, don't enter the forum.

You can hate whatever you want. It is still hate.

Hating evil is good, don't you agree?

Does it make you feel better that you hating something does nothing for other people?

I beg to differ. Speaking out against evil is always good.

The only way you can remove something forever is not by hating it, but by changing people's hearts

What do you think I'm doing here?

You really want to see Muslim people change their minds?

Yes.

Then don't insult their religion.

I only stated the facts, and I'm sorry that reality is insulting.

Engage in respectful dialogue.

I don't respect slavery, do you?

And why should you care if Islam "gets a bad name"? What matter is it to you?

Just trying to be helpful.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, Muslim brothers and sisters, if it's any comfort to you, you should see the Christians squirm and start defending slavery, because the Bible authorizes it as well.

Let's face it, ancient tribal religions are not the way to make moral progress.

 

[Autodidact]

I'll say it again. The only reason Christian countries ended slavery before Muslim ones is that they came under the control of Enlightenment secular humanist values. If it was up to the Church, there would be slavery today.

 

[Bismillah]

The only reason slavery ended was because it wasn't economically viable. Don't kid yourself ok? Religion doesn't define slavery, economic motive does. As I have said make another thread, you have succeeded in burying this one in irrelevant posts and derailing it.

 

[neves]

No, I did not. Well, now I read that he died without any, but was that because he freed them, or just because he died in poverty?


Slavery is wrong.
Slavery is Islamic.
Islam is wrong.

lol...

 

[Autodidact]

lol...

Nothing quite as funny as human suffering.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Slavery is done and over with.

No, it's not.

 

[England my lionheart]

I thought this may be of interest:

“Slavery is a part of Islam . . . Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.” —Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, author of the religious textbook At-Tawhid

Perhaps he doesn't speak for the whole of Islam but it does show that Slavery is still around in the Muslim world,the Sudan is notorious for Slave raids where only non Muslims are taken even today.

 

[Cypress]

How many virgins? and how many were married before him?

Only one was virgin, Aisha ra. All the rest were married before him.

Mohemmed is the example every Muslim should emulate, right?
So why then do Muslim men require a girl to be virgin when she marries?
Should they not prefer non-virgines as wives to follow the example of Mohammed?

 

[beenie]

Mohemmed is the example every Muslim should emulate, right?
So why then do Muslim men require a girl to be virgin when she marries?
Should they not prefer non-virgines as wives to follow the example of Mohammed?

cultural nonsense.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Mohemmed is the example every Muslim should emulate, right?
So why then do Muslim men require a girl to be virgin when she marries?
Should they not prefer non-virgines as wives to follow the example of Mohammed?

Non virgins through previous marriage , not outside of it. Stop twisting my words please , its an old game now.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Slavery is wrong.
Slavery is Islamic.
Islam is wrong.

You may try to revise your mathematic lessons, especially the Logic lesson.

P==>Q
P==>R

That make nothing! Neither Q==> R or any other logical result ..

WHich proves the following:
Thinking something is logical , does not make it really logical.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

cultural nonsense.

Dont be too much in rush to accuse your fellow muslims of cultural non sense my dear sister , the prophet peaace be upon him did not approve marrying non virgins (outside of previous marriages) neither. But still, he commanded his followers not to expose wives if one ever found that his wife had previous sexual relationships outside of marriage.

 

[beenie]

Fatima, when i see my fellow Muslims presenting a bloody sheet to prove the virginity of his wife, i'll call it cultural nonsense...it's NOT a part of Islam. surely our beloved Prophet didn't sanction such a spectacle. hence, his commandment to his followers to not expose wives if one ever found that his wife had previous sexual relationships outside of marriage. i'm not blaming Islam, but i am saying that Muslims do go outside of the religious practice based on culture.

preference (of the woman being a virgin) isn't the same as necessity, is it?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

All I said my dear sister, is rushing in making judgments without anyone mentioning the facts you've told was a bit odd

But never mind, preference or necessity? That depends on the person

 

[beenie]

All I said my dear sister, is rushing in making judgments without anyone mentioning the facts you've told was a bit odd

But never mind, preference or necessity? That depends on the person

i didn't think anything was odd about my reply. he asked why Muslim men insist on marrying virgins when the Prophet himself didn't marry only virgins. my answer was actually in defense of both the Prophet and Muslim women that it is cultural for men to insist that women be virgins.

...and if a woman's sexual indiscretions were to be kept secret according to the Prophet's commands, then how would one know if a woman is a virgin? only if she was married and consummated would one know that. otherwise, it's to remain untold.

Fatima, i'm beginning to think you don't like any of my posts; you either challenge me in threads or you PM me...we're both Muslims, but clearly our upbringings and surroundings are different. we don't have to think identically to both be practicing Muslims.

 

[Autodidact]

You may try to revise your mathematic lessons, especially the Logic lesson.

P==>Q
P==>R

That make nothing! Neither Q==> R or any other logical result ..

WHich proves the following:
Thinking something is logical , does not make it really logical.

Explain it to me. Slavery is wrong, and Islamic. How can Islam not therefore be wrong?