The purposeful vagueness of scriptures.

[ppp]

Clear vs correct.

I agree consensus is no guarantee of truth, but reproducible experimental results do help.

Not just reproducible experiments. A clear repeatable methodology with demonstrable reliability.

 

[idea]

Not just reproducible experiments. A clear repeatable methodology with demonstrable reliability.

Yes, even then ambiguity still exists. Without being omniscient there is always the possibility of that missing piece that changes everything. For all practical purposes, data based decisions tend to be best. (Not 'correct', just 'good enough' lol - it sort of works most of the time - the best anyone can do.

 

[ppp]

Yes, even then ambiguity still exists. Without being omniscient there is always the possibility of that missing piece that changes everything. For all practical purposes, data based decisions tend to be best. (Not 'correct', just 'good enough' lol - it sort of works most of the time - the best anyone can do.

Well, uncertainty, at the least. But yeah. The best we can accomplish are data-based error tolerances and an avoidance of logical fallacies.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

rationally God is capable of proving his religion through signs including a book that would be miraculous.

That's much of the argument against calling the words in any holy book or elsewhere of divine origin. No words have ever been written that do not look like a human could have written them.

God says through the Prophets to love not kill.

And what does that mean coming from a deity that is alleged to have killed untold numbers? And when has that message ever made a difference? It's like a mother telling her children that dislike one another and fight continually to love one another. They won't until they mature and decide to do so themselves.

What do you think would be something that could convince you God exists.

Something that would require a supernatural agent to accomplish. Yet there is nothing man could witness that could not be the work of a sufficiently advanced technology. So the answer is, nothing. That doesn't mean that gods don't exist, just that I don't see how they could prove that they were gods.

If we all set out on a search for truth and found it then we should have all arrived at the same place?

Yes. And the diversity of religious denominations and the gods they proclaim exist are good evidence that none of them know anything about gods.

 

[Eli G]

A cook who spoils a meal while trying to follow a recipe ... it does not mean that the recipe was bad, but rather that the cook did not follow the instructions correctly.

 

[ppp]

A cook who spoils a meal while trying to follow a recipe ... it does not mean that the recipe was bad, but rather that the cook did not follow the instructions correctly.

Um. There are bad recipes.

 

[idea]

A cook who spoils a meal while trying to follow a recipe ... it does not mean that the recipe was bad, but rather that the cook did not follow the instructions correctly.

Recipe: Maintain authority through blaming followers, use scapegoat, blame victims.

Question the recipe maker = faithless, evil, prideful, apostate LOL.


It takes a tribe, sharing ideas, sharing ingredients - melting pots work best in my opinion.

 

[idea]

Well, uncertainty, at the least. But yeah. The best we can accomplish are data-based error tolerances and an avoidance of logical fallacies.

Just read these lines:

"The Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate." - Douglas Adams

Lolol

 

[ppp]

Just read these lines:

"The Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate." - Douglas Adams

Lolol

I know what Adams was saying. I have no idea what you're saying

 

[Audie]

I know what Adams was saying. I have no idea what you're saying

Me too not either

 

[Audie]

Clear vs correct.

I agree consensus is no guarantee of truth, but reproducible experimental results do help.

The things you say have little sense, and less relevance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's much of the argument against calling the words in any holy book or elsewhere of divine origin. No words have ever been written that do not look like a human could have written them.

And what does that mean coming from a deity that is alleged to have killed untold numbers? And when has that message ever made a difference? It's like a mother telling her children that dislike one another and fight continually to love one another. They won't until they mature and decide to do so themselves.

Something that would require a supernatural agent to accomplish. Yet there is nothing man could witness that could not be the work of a sufficiently advanced technology. So the answer is, nothing. That doesn't mean that gods don't exist, just that I don't see how they could prove that they were gods.

Yes. And the diversity of religious denominations and the gods they proclaim exist are good evidence that none of them know anything about gods.

All the major religions holy books teach not to kill or harm so those who do so it is their choice. God appeals to our higher nature to act nobly but doesn’t force us to do so. It Is us who choose how we behave good or bad. It is better we choose peace but we are choosing to solve our problems through war. Thats our own choice.

 

[ppp]

All the major religions holy books teach not to kill or harm

That statement is ridiculously false. All the major religions books that one should definitely kill the victims targeted by those books.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

All the major religions holy books teach not to kill or harm

Humanism does.

I don't know about all religions, but Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are violent religions notwithstanding giving lip service to peace and love. Saying to love one another does not constitute teaching just as it didn't in the example I gave you of a mother saying the same to fighting kids. Typically, these religions (and yours, Baha'i) essentially say to be good, which accomplishes nothing, and then blames humanity for that message being ineffective. Haven't you written things such as that if everybody would just heed Baha'u'llah's advice, we would have world peace, and then commenting on how man fails to be moved by these admonitions?

What stands out about humanism is that it actually does teach love and tolerance by example. While the major religions are causing mayhem in the States and the Middle East, humanism quietly plods ahead making life better for the greatest number where it is allowed to. The Christians claim to love sinner while hating the sin, but it's just hatred. Meantime, in the States, humanist values are attempting to promote love and tolerance for LGBTQ+. Christian nationalists are historical revisionists trying to hide history teaching their treatment of slaves while instituting their intolerance for women's reproductive rights based in their religious beliefs in a supposedly secular government.

So, no to these religions teaching or doing anything helpful.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That statement is ridiculously false. All the major religions books that one should definitely kill the victims targeted by those books.

Absolutely not. You are dead wrong and exposing that you have no knowledge at all of the holy books. If you did you could never ever come to that conclusion. I know the holy books and the context and murder and killing are clearly forbidden. Self defense is permitted only if attacked first.

 

[ppp]

Absolutely not. You are dead wrong and exposing that you have no knowledge at all of the holy books. If you did you could never ever come to that conclusion. I know the holy books and the context and murder and killing are clearly forbidden. Self defense is permitted only if attacked first.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong, @loverofhumanity. Your objections are clearly the product of your emotions and not of any personal research or knowledge. The Bible contains numerous passages where killing is sanctioned and directly ordered by God. At the individual level, by social class, and and thru wholesale slaughter.

Jephthah's unnamed daughter. I call her Barb. Justice for Barb!!!!
42 humans torn apart by bears for calling a prophet , Badly.
Gay men for being fabulous.
Cities told to submit to Hebrew rule, but refuse.

Do your own research. Whomever is feeding you information is either ignorant themselves, or lying you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong, @loverofhumanity. Your objections are clearly the product of your emotions and not of any personal research or knowledge. The Bible contains numerous passages where killing is sanctioned and directly ordered by God. At the individual level, by social class, and and thru wholesale slaughter.

Jephthah's unnamed daughter. I call her Barb. Justice for Barb!!!!
42 humans torn apart by bears for calling a prophet , Badly.
Gay men for being fabulous.
Cities told to submit to Hebrew rule, but refuse.

Do your own research. Whomever is feeding you information is either ignorant themselves, or lying you.

Generalising and forming judgements and painting every situation with the same brush is very unjust. In the Holy Books God does not promote murder or killing but allows self defense and just wars as well as punishments to keep law and order in a desert environment where there are no judges, courts, police or prisons so the only way to deter crime was often harsh penalties and even the death penalty. But in todays age the laws God has given for this age are different because we have the facilities to educate and rehabilitate whereas in those times they did not.

 

[ppp]

Generalising and forming judgements and painting every situation with the same brush is very unjust.

I didn't generalize. I gave you five specific positions that the bible supports killing people. At the individual, group, and cultural level All in counter to your false claims.

You, on the other hand, are engaging in whitewashing. Whitewashing is the act of glossing over or covering up vices or crimes through lazy or performative investigation and a presentation of false or misleading data.

You are literally fussing at me for not turning a blind eye to institutional mass slaughter, rape, theft, and genocide.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I didn't generalize. I gave you five specific positions that the bible supports killing people. At the individual, group, and cultural level All in counter to your false claims.

You, on the other hand, are engaging in whitewashing. Whitewashing is the act of glossing over or covering up vices or crimes through lazy or performative investigation and a presentation of false or misleading data.

You are literally fussing at me for not turning a blind eye to institutional mass slaughter, rape, theft, and genocide.

Which verses are you specifically referring to. The Bible is a very large Book?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I didn't generalize. I gave you five specific positions that the bible supports killing people. At the individual, group, and cultural level All in counter to your false claims.

You, on the other hand, are engaging in whitewashing. Whitewashing is the act of glossing over or covering up vices or crimes through lazy or performative investigation and a presentation of false or misleading data.

You are literally fussing at me for not turning a blind eye to institutional mass slaughter, rape, theft, and genocide.

On another point I fully agree that the churches have been involved in mass slaughter and wars but that is going against what they were taught. Priests and clergy are very responsible for the terrorism, genocide, rape and murder you speak of. I fully agree there.