The Random, Meaningless Announcements Thread 3!

[beenherebeforeagain]

Those were indeed surmountable problems, particularly
the inadequate safety procedures. But fundamentally it
just wasn't cost effective. But that's how humans learn...
...by doing, failing, & succeeding.

The shuttle system was a "full-employment for constituent's districts" project, as so many govt projects become...

 

[Revoltingest]

The shuttle system was a "full-employment for constituent's districts" project, as so many govt projects become...

How is this known?
I recall the concept of a reusable spacecraft being a highly
favored goal. Or is the entire space program just pork?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And as an ex-mechanic who did loads of this due to the brilliance of Automotive engineer

How did they not catch that sooner? Did no one even look at where the support columns are?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The shuttle system was a "full-employment for constituent's districts" project, as so many govt projects become...

It's also become terribly obsolete, and the fact we still don't have a reusable one is one of the biggest faults of the space shuttle, in my opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know why, but today giving myself my injection of hormones hurt and stung like hell, hurt so much I had to do two pokes, the holes bleed a lot for such small holes (it ran down my leg) and bruised, which has never happened before.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I just bought a book about applying Zen philosophies to poker.
I also bought a Letter to a Christian Nation for my Kindle.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

How is this known?
I recall the concept of a reusable spacecraft being a highly
favored goal. Or is the entire space program just pork?

By having studied the administration of NASA and how politically directed engineering compromises resulted in an expensive and only partially reusable--and less safe than originally intended--system.

Yes, and as you've noted, errors were made. Budget cuts ended Apollo early and reduced the amount available to develop a fully reusable shuttle, leading to a series of choices that resulted in an expensive program kept alive by Congressional interests dominated by representatives and senators with vested interests in keeping the jobs going in their states and districts. studying the iron triangle in this case was quite fascinating.

 

[sun rise]

The shuttle was an imperfect idea,
but it still played a big roll, eg, fixing
the Hubble Telescope.
And the SR-71....huge success in
an important surveillance role.

Teaching canines about engineering
is a difficult task.

From a canine perspective, if you can't eat it, bury it, play tug of war with it, play keep away with it, sleep on it or demolish it, it has no value.

 

[sun rise]

It's also become terribly obsolete, and the fact we still don't have a reusable one is one of the biggest faults of the space shuttle, in my opinion.

While I don't classify Musk as a saint, his emphasis on reusability in the space program is laudable. And it's just fine with me that he makes money doing so.

 

[Wu Wei]

 

[Shadow Wolf]

While I don't classify Musk as a saint, his emphasis on reusability in the space program is laudable. And it's just fine with me that he makes money doing so.

Yeah. It's just sad it's a corporation doing it and not America. If people wonder about those who have little national pride need look no further than what America has done to one of the things that made it most proud.

 

[Revoltingest]

By having studied the administration of NASA and how politically directed engineering compromises resulted in an expensive and only partially reusable--and less safe than originally intended--system.

Yes, and as you've noted, errors were made. Budget cuts ended Apollo early and reduced the amount available to develop a fully reusable shuttle, leading to a series of choices that resulted in an expensive program kept alive by Congressional interests dominated by representatives and senators with vested interests in keeping the jobs going in their states and districts. studying the iron triangle in this case was quite fascinating.

Links?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Links?

Some documentary I watched. I don't remember the title, but I do remember it being the first time I was made aware the space shuttle is dated and obsolete, still basically the same as it has always been.
There's quite a bit of that sort of thing going on, basically just because it creates jobs. That stuff ends, people don't have jobs, local economy tanks, and the local elected officials face the public wrath and people go without and lose their homes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of your stuff was the result of such deals creating those jobs and positions.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some documentary I watched. I don't remember the title, but I do remember it being the first time I was made aware the space shuttle is dated and obsolete, still basically the same as it has always been.
There's quite a bit of that sort of thing going on, basically just because it creates jobs. That stuff ends, people don't have jobs, local economy tanks, and the local elected officials face the public wrath and people go without and lose their homes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of your stuff was the result of such deals creating those jobs and positions.

I recall it differently. There were high hopes for a space
commuter vehicle....something with a long life of re-use.
But it became clear that this was less practical than they'd
hoped. The ablative system struck me as the biggest
problem....but I don't know. The other problem that struck
me was investing in a single technology to last decades in
an era of rapid advances.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I recall it differently. There were high hopes for a space
commuter vehicle....something with a long life of re-use.
But it became clear that this was less practical than they'd
hoped. The ablative system struck me as the biggest
problem....but I don't know. The other problem that struck
me was investing in a single technology to last decades in
an era of rapid advances.

There is quite a bit of what seems to be wasteful spending that basically does nothing but create jobs. Like the antiquated jets and tanks the military still buys that never get used. There's a chance that's because someone is holding onto those jobs that made that old stuff, the same stuff that even McCain said they need to quit buying.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is quite a bit of what seems to be wasteful spending that basically does nothing but create jobs. Like the antiquated jets and tanks the military still buys that never get used.

The less they're used, the better (IMO).
These things aren't antiquated. My problem with
many pieces of materiel is that they're more for
policing the world, rather than for self defense
against existential threats.
Newer systems are on the way, but this takes time.

There's a chance that's because someone is holding onto those jobs that made that old stuff, the same stuff that even McCain said they need to quit buying.

I've seen politics driving contracts, eg, the A9 vs the A10,
the YF17 awarded to McDonnell Douglas instead of
Northrop. But the planes were going to get built...the
wrangling was over by whom where.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I guess it's kind of like if Lockheed Martin fell behind and someone like SpaceX starts making the technology in use currently by the US military. Logically the contract with Martin would end, but there are Congressional representatives over the district and states where Martin factories are located, representatives who are going to up for election. The people who decide if they stay or go tend to be most likely to tell them to go when jobs and the economy go. So these representatives act to preserve their chances of reelections, and the end result is a bunch of spending that does nothing more than keeping people employed.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess it's kind of like if Lockheed Martin fell behind and someone like SpaceX starts making the technology in use currently by the US military. Logically the contract with Martin would end, but there are Congressional representatives over the district and states where Martin factories are located, representatives who are going to up for election. The people who decide if they stay or go tend to be most likely to tell them to go when jobs and the economy go. So these representatives act to preserve their chances of reelections, and the end result is a bunch of spending that does nothing more than keeping people employed.

Politics is unavoidable.
We can only hope that the right systems
are purchased, & then used wisely.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Links?

Sorry I can't be more specific, as it's been more than a decade and I've experienced the onset of cognitive issues, and all links and records I have are no longer on my computer nor easily accessible.

Start with the Challenger and Columbia accident reports, the annual budget asks and appropriations over the years, plus a number of different reports about NASA and how it's operated in relation to Congress, the Presidents, and the aerospace industry. The Wikipedia articles on the Iron Triangle and Project Management Triangle are very brief introductions to the concept. I'm sure a search for NASA with those terms would turn up appropriate links.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry I can't be more specific, as it's been more than a decade and I've experienced the onset of cognitive issues, and all links and records I have are no longer on my computer nor easily accessible.

Start with the Challenger and Columbia accident reports, the annual budget asks and appropriations over the years, plus a number of different reports about NASA and how it's operated in relation to Congress, the Presidents, and the aerospace industry. The Wikipedia articles on the Iron Triangle and Project Management Triangle are very brief introductions to the concept. I'm sure a search for NASA with those terms would turn up appropriate links.

OK.