The Rapid Decline of Christianity in the USA

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some things are better, some are worse.

I recommend honoring one's parents, loving one's neighbor, paying one's taxes--religion.

There are plenty of people whose parents ought not to be honoured. Commanding it across the board is immoral.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Being agnostic is not being "lost".

Is it so hard to accept that not everyone is meant to be a believer?

Or, that some people are honest enough to say "I don't know."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How does choosing to not see that which is already foreordained restore free will?

Incidentally, not knowing what is knowable eliminates the state of omniscience.

Indeed, free will isn't only invalidated by someone having perfect future knowledge, but also just by the fact that the future is able to be perfectly known - whether someone knows it or not.

A "future" that is fixed is no different than the past - and, you have no ability to change either, or make any decisions other than what is fixed. Hence, no free will. Free will is contingent on the ability to make different decisions.

 

[Deeje]

People have always suffered from war, other violence, plague, famine, drought, poverty, and the like, but the good news is less now than ever. Why do you see only the suffering and not the progress? This article has multiple graphs charting trends in war, murder, genocide, rape, child victimization, and the like. The news is all positive.

What do think your pastor would say if you shared that article with him? Do you have a guess? Would you like to put it to the test? I'd appreciate it very much if you would print a copy of it and take it to church, and let us know what your pastor makes of those trends.

Ah, the art of statistics......nothing like a good statistic to make the world seem like its a nice place to live....

I wonder if the people in Syria or the exploited children of India and other third world nations think that stats accurately reflect their view of the world?

"I'm all right Jack" and I have the stats to prove it..... How nice for you.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Ah, the art of statistics......nothing like a good statistic to make the world seem like its a nice place to live....

I wonder if the people in Syria or the exploited children of India and other third world nations think that stats accurately reflect their view of the world?
"I'm all right Jack" and I have the stats to prove it..... How nice for you.

You have no argument, do you?

 

[Deeje]

You have no argument, do you?

All you have are stats. Stats are not real people with real life trauma and tragedy.....you can hide behind the stats if you like....its obviously comfortable for you in that happy box.

 

[metis]

Anyone who thinks that the world is worse off in terms of hardship and even crime by percent of the population than it was centuries ago really does not know their history very well at all. However, I certainly am not implying that we should not work hard on trying to make the world a better place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ah, the art of statistics......nothing like a good statistic to make the world seem like its a nice place to live....

I wonder if the people in Syria or the exploited children of India and other third world nations think that stats accurately reflect their view of the world?

"I'm all right Jack" and I have the stats to prove it..... How nice for you.

It's foolish to rely on anecdotes in the first place, but it's hypocritical of you to point to anecdotes of people living today while ignoring the anecdotes of the past.

Things aren't perfect now, and they don't get better in a uniform way, but they are getting better.

Let's play a game: imagine you could live at any time in human history; any time, past or present. You pick the year; your location and social status are chosen at random, and you live your life. What year would you pick?

In what year would you expect to have a better life than now? When would you expect a longer lifespan? When would you expect a lower risk of dying by violence? When would you expect fewer epidemics? Less chronic disease? Less famine?

Pick a year, any year.

 

[Deeje]

It's foolish to rely on anecdotes in the first place, but it's hypocritical of you to point to anecdotes of people living today while ignoring the anecdotes of the past.

Things aren't perfect now, and they don't get better in a uniform way, but they are getting better.

Perhaps its not in the anecdotes but in the fact that here we are, after thousands of years of advancement and yet we still don't know how to solve our differences amicably. We might be more technologically equipped and have more gadgets to entertain ourselves but we still can't cure disease or prevent homelessness or crime, or solve our national differences without threats and bloodshed.

At this stage of our 'progression' what important things have we really achieved? It seems to me that we have less excuse for all the problems we face today because we should have figured out ways to make life better for everyone, not just for the privileged few. In all of our existence, we have never learned to share.

There is a principle in the Bible that I believe is very important....if we all did this, imagine what life could be like?
2 Corinthians 8:11-15:
"So now, also complete what you started to do, so that your readiness to act may be completed according to the means you have available. 12 For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little."

If we could achieve this, then I believe we could declare ourselves a success in this life. Ask yourself what prevents this from being a reality?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Perhaps its not in the anecdotes but in the fact that here we are, after thousands of years of advancement and yet we still don't know how to solve our differences amicably.

So you're saying now that things haven't gotten worse; they've either gotten better and plateaued, or haven't gotten as good as you think they ought to have gotten?

We might be more technologically equipped and have more gadgets to entertain ourselves but we still can't cure disease

We've cured many diseases and cure more every day.

or prevent homelessness or crime,

Some countries are close to eliminating homelessness. Crime rates are lower now than they ever have been.

or solve our national differences without threats and bloodshed.

Actually, we often do solve our differences non-violently.

At this stage of our 'progression' what important things have we really achieved?

Too many to list. I can give some examples if you narrow the parameters down a bit.

It seems to me that we have less excuse for all the problems we face today because we should have figured out ways to make life better for everyone, not just for the privileged few.

We have. Things are much better across the board, not just for the rich:

The Visual History of World Poverty

In all of our existence, we have never learned to share.

Except in all the times we have.

There is a principle in the Bible that I believe is very important....if we all did this, imagine what life could be like?
2 Corinthians 8:11-15:
"So now, also complete what you started to do, so that your readiness to act may be completed according to the means you have available. 12 For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little."

If we could achieve this, then I believe we could declare ourselves a success in this life. Ask yourself what prevents this from being a reality?

It has been achieved to a relatively high degree, though how much varies from place to place.

As for what stops us from making it a reality across the board? Conservative Christians, mainly.

What have YOU done to try to make this happen?

 

[Muffled]

I can understand that. It is horribly immoral to:

*honor one's parents instead of despise them
*tell the truth instead of lie
*cherish life instead of abort life
*be sober instead of drunk or strung out on drugs
*love and respect and honor your partner instead of use them
*pay taxes instead of cheat on your returns
*give without being asked and be charitable instead of a stingy miser
*Etc.

Thank the Lord you were able to become a moral person by abandoning Christianity.

I believe he might have abandoned forgiveness of Christianity. After all revenge is what makes the world go round.

 

[Muffled]

Are you saying this person was taught evolution in science class, and because of that abandoned Christianity?

I believe that was what she said. However I explained things to her and now she claims to be an agnostic. Then she went and married an ex divinity student.

 

[Muffled]

Actually, I was mainly thinking of treatment of LGBT people and the Atonement. Also, some Catholic-specific stuff that you may very well agree with me on.

I believe LGBT people are immoral. So that fits in with a plethora of immorality as I said earlier. The LGBT lifestyle and Christianity are not compatible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I believe LGBT people are immoral.

By my standards, I don't believe, I know such thinking is immoral. You may think you're concerned for people and trying to show love, but this mentality is the bane of millions of LBGT people around the world. It has parents disowning children and kicking them out on the streets, it has them being denied jobs and housing and health care, it restricts freedoms and liberties, and it's known for leading to beatings, murders, and executions.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Perhaps its not in the anecdotes but in the fact that here we are, after thousands of years of advancement and yet we still don't know how to solve our differences amicably. We might be more technologically equipped and have more gadgets to entertain ourselves but we still can't cure disease or prevent homelessness or crime, or solve our national differences without threats and bloodshed.

At this stage of our 'progression' what important things have we really achieved? It seems to me that we have less excuse for all the problems we face today because we should have figured out ways to make life better for everyone, not just for the privileged few. In all of our existence, we have never learned to share.

There is a principle in the Bible that I believe is very important....if we all did this, imagine what life could be like?
2 Corinthians 8:11-15:
"So now, also complete what you started to do, so that your readiness to act may be completed according to the means you have available. 12 For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little."

If we could achieve this, then I believe we could declare ourselves a success in this life. Ask yourself what prevents this from being a reality?

I notice that you cut out and ignored all of the following when responding to the post above:

Let's play a game: imagine you could live at any time in human history; any time, past or present. You pick the year; your location and social status are chosen at random, and you live your life. What year would you pick?

In what year would you expect to have a better life than now? When would you expect a longer lifespan? When would you expect a lower risk of dying by violence? When would you expect fewer epidemics? Less chronic disease? Less famine?

Pick a year, any year.​

Ignoring that point sends the same message as writing "I can think of no other time in which I'd rather have been born."

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I believe LGBT people are immoral. So that fits in with a plethora of immorality as I said earlier. The LGBT lifestyle and Christianity are not compatible.

That's a statement of intolerance. The LGBT "lifestyle" is perfectly OK to secular humanists. We believe that morality comes from applying reason and empathy to the task of defining which behaviors are immoral. We can't find a reason to persecute or marginalize people for their sexual identities and preferences, and don't consider consulting an ancient holy book the proper way to decide what is moral and what is not.

 

[BilliardsBall]

But, being religious or being a theist is not, in and of itself, better than not being religious or being a theist. That is made obvious by the fact that belief in God doesn't make one a better person necessarily.

Per Christianity, atheists break most of the ten commandments (and most of the 613 laws, at that).

 

[BilliardsBall]

There are plenty of people whose parents ought not to be honoured. Commanding it across the board is immoral.

We can honor people by confronting them with truth, too, like the way Jesus honors you and I.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I believe he might have abandoned forgiveness of Christianity. After all revenge is what makes the world go round.

Yes, it is horribly immoral (and destructive) to focus on revenge vs. forgiveness.

 

[Hawkins]

I'm not posting this to throw it in the faces of Christians, but to establish the fact and ask:

WHY DO YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

It is because our secular education system is the beast of 666. It is enforced by law that one must go into such a system since childhood. Then everyone going out of it is leaving the mark in his forehead (mind) and right hand (action) to be secular.