The Resurrection of Jesus Christ

[A Vestigial Mote]

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the crux of Christianity. If Christ is not risen from the dead, Christianity dies an immediate death.

Countless times skeptics of Christianity in these fora have been challenged to 'bust' (falsify) the resurrection as it is presented in the New Testament, etc. Every time they've been challenged they run from it, or come up with some shallow argument which they never fully defend. Or they run to Genesis for cover. At no time that I can recall has anyone ever busted the resurrection, although the skeptics love to present wall-to-wall THEORIES on what might have otherwise occurred. They LOVE their theories and unfounded claims. But so far they have no credible evidence to substantiate those theories.

If anyone presents an argument that a (the) resurrection violates the laws of nature / physics, then they must present replicated and peer-approved scientific studies demonstrating that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist.

This thread is about the resurrection of Christ as seen in the Bible / Gospels / New Testament and early extra-biblical writings. Skeptics are invited to try to falsify it, using scriptural and/or historical arguments, etc. And if they can't bust the resurrection, they should strongly reconsider their contrary opinions on the matter.

Skeptics, let's see your bad-boy arguments, and do please endeavor to come up with some EVIDENCE to back up your arguments, and not just pontificate one theory after another!

We have billions upon billions of cases where people died at the end of their lifetime and, given 3 days being in the state called "death", they stayed dead.

We have not one verifiable case of a person actually dying and 3 days later coming back out of the state of verified death - the only cases you can point to are ones within which the "verification" of the person's death was a failure.

Evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of people not being able to be reversed out of death given 3 days in. Wouldn't you say? So, even if Jesus came walking out of that tomb, I would be overwhelmingly compelled to believe that he wasn't really dead to begin with.

There you go... evidence against the resurrection. Boy... that was pretty easy.

 

[WalterTrull]

The resurrection was "bodily" but not physical.

Holy Cow!!! I think maybe we're all nuts. Don't know how the world's Christian based religions are gonna deal with that.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the crux of Christianity. If Christ is not risen from the dead, Christianity dies an immediate death.

Countless times skeptics of Christianity in these fora have been challenged to 'bust' (falsify) the resurrection as it is presented in the New Testament, etc. Every time they've been challenged they run from it, or come up with some shallow argument which they never fully defend. Or they run to Genesis for cover. At no time that I can recall has anyone ever busted the resurrection, although the skeptics love to present wall-to-wall THEORIES on what might have otherwise occurred. They LOVE their theories and unfounded claims. But so far they have no credible evidence to substantiate those theories.

If anyone presents an argument that a (the) resurrection violates the laws of nature / physics, then they must present replicated and peer-approved scientific studies demonstrating that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist.

This thread is about the resurrection of Christ as seen in the Bible / Gospels / New Testament and early extra-biblical writings. Skeptics are invited to try to falsify it, using scriptural and/or historical arguments, etc. And if they can't bust the resurrection, they should strongly reconsider their contrary opinions on the matter.

Skeptics, let's see your bad-boy arguments, and do please endeavor to come up with some EVIDENCE to back up your arguments, and not just pontificate one theory after another!

What a silly post. It's akin to me stating that no one has EVER been able to provide credible evidence that I do not have an invisible magical dragon living in my garage. Anyone who knows anything about how logical arguments work knows that until I present some sort of verifiable evidence for my invisible magical dragon that actually exists, everyone else can dismiss my ridiculous claim as being completely unfounded and unworthy of their consideration.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Someone else said this: 'Have you ever seen a Frost Giant? No? That proves that Thor killed them all.'

 

[Jos]

Do you suppose the universe is "self-sufficient"?

It's not a person but even if it were I would have to say IDK.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What? You haven't done your homework AGAIN??

Clement, elder of Rome, letter to the Corinthian church (95 AD):

"The Apostles received the Gospel for us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ was sent forth from God. So then Christ is from God, and the Apostles are from Christ. Both therefore came of the will of God in the appointed order. Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ and confirmed in the word of God with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of God should come. So preaching everywhere in country and town, they appointed their firstfruits, when they had proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons unto them that should believe."

Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, letter to the Trallians (110-115 AD):

"Jesus Christ who was of the race of David, who was the Son of Mary, who was truly born and ate and drank, was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate, was truly crucified and died in the sight of those in heaven and on earth and those under the earth; who moreover was truly raised from the dead, His Father having raised Him, who in the like fashion will so raise us also who believe on Him."

Ignatius, letter to the Smyrneans (110-115 AD):

"He is truly of the race of David according to the flesh, but Son of God by the Divine will and power, truly born of a virgin and baptised by John that all righteousness might be fulfilled by Him, truly nailed up in the flesh for our sakes under Pontius Pilate and Herod the tetrarch (of which fruit are we--that is, of his most blessed passion); that He might set up an ensign unto all ages through His resurrection."

"For I know and believe that He was in the flesh even after the resurrection; and when He came to Peter and his company, He said to them, 'Lay hold and handle me, and see that I am not a demon without body.' And straightway they touched him, and they believed, being joined unto His flesh and His blood. Wherefore also they despised death, nay they were found superior to death. And after His resurrection He ate with them and drank with them."

Ignatius, letter to the Magnesians (110-115 AD):

"Be ye fully persuaded concerning the birth and the passion and the resurrection, which took place in the time of the governorship of Pontius Pilate; for these things were truly and certainly done by Jesus Christ our hope."

Extra-Biblical Historical Evidence of Jesus

And where's your evidence that supports your THEORY / CLAIM that the resurrection is a myth??? I asked you people to back up your rants with evidence? So where's the beef??

You ask for "evidence" as opposed to "claims?" But what are those letters but the unevidenced claims of a bunch of people who weren't there, and didn't even know any of the players?

But, let's suppose you're right, and nobody can actually "produce evidence that the resurrection didn't happen." We could then declare you a winner, I suppose, although even then, nothing will change -- such a declaration wouldn't make the resurrection even remotely more "true" than it is right now.

But let's do that. Let's declare you a winner. And having done so, the only thing we'll ask in return is for YOUR evidence that Osiris was not also resurrected, as claimed in much of the writing of ancient Egypt -- much still available today on temple walls and elsewhere.

 

[Spartan]

Well as others have pointed out as well, you are shifting the burden of proof

Nonetheless I will give it a try.

Proof:
Never in recorded history have anyone been resurrected from the dead after 3 days. So the lack of evidence for such things occurring is evidence for it not being possible.

Clinical death:
Most tissues and organs of the body can survive clinical death for considerable periods. Blood circulation can be stopped in the entire body below the heart for at least 30 minutes, with injury to the spinal cord being a limiting factor. Detached limbs may be successfully reattached after 6 hours of no blood circulation at warm temperatures. Bone, tendon, and skin can survive as long as 8 to 12 hours.

The brain, however, appears to accumulate ischemic injury faster than any other organ. Without special treatment after circulation is restarted, full recovery of the brain after more than 3 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is rare. Usually brain damage or later brain death results after longer intervals of clinical death even if the heart is restarted and blood circulation is successfully restored. Brain injury is therefore the chief limiting factor for recovery from clinical death.

Although loss of function is almost immediate, there is no specific duration of clinical death at which the non-functioning brain clearly dies. The most vulnerable cells in the brain, CA1 neurons of the hippocampus, are fatally injured by as little as 10 minutes without oxygen. However, the injured cells do not actually die until hours after resuscitation.This delayed death can be prevented in vitro by a simple drug treatment even after 20 minutes without oxygen. In other areas of the brain, viable human neurons have been recovered and grown in culture hours after clinical death. Brain failure after clinical death is now known to be due to a complex series of processes called reperfusion injury that occur after blood circulation has been restored, especially processes that interfere with blood circulation during the recovery period. Control of these processes is the subject of ongoing research.

Velma Thomas, 59, of West Virginia, USA holds the record time for recovering from clinical death. In May 2008, Thomas went into cardiac arrest at her home. Medics were able to establish a faint pulse after eight minutes of CPR. Her heart stopped twice after arriving at the hospital and she was placed on life support. Doctors attempted to lower her body temperature to prevent additional brain injury. She was declared clinically dead for 17 hours after doctors failed to detect brain activity. Her son, Tim Thomas, stated that "her skin had already started hardening, her hands and toes were curling up, they were already drawn". She was taken off life support and funeral arrangements were in progress. However, ten minutes after being taken off life support, she revived and recovered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

Now Jesus does not appear to hold the official record and would have beaten her by a lot, and this was when she was placed in life support. Also Lazarus would have beaten Jesus by a day, but he didn't take the record either

Thanks, but that doesn't make sense in light of the serious injuries Jesus would have had. The Roman centurion confirmed his death by thrusting a spear into Jesus' side also. And then for Jesus to theoretically pass 3 days in a cold dark tomb with serious injuries and then appear healthy and conversive with the ladies at the tomb stretches the imagination.

Your theory is known as the "Swoon" theory. More on that untenable here: The Swoon Theory - What is it? Did Jesus survive His crucifixion?

 

[Spartan]

As stated by others, there’s no evidence the resurrection as recorded in the Gospels actually happened other than viewing a theological narrative as historical. The resurrection and especially the ascension involving Jesus ascend through the stratosphere into outer space doesn’t make much sense, unless the heaven we go to when we die is the same ‘heaven’ as in outer space.

Just trying to deny it won't work. Per the OP you must show evidence why it is allegedly false.

 

[Spartan]

You ask for "evidence" as opposed to "claims?" But what are those letters but the unevidenced claims of a bunch of people who weren't there, and didn't even know any of the players?

But, let's suppose you're right, and nobody can actually "produce evidence that the resurrection didn't happen." We could then declare you a winner, I suppose, although even then, nothing will change -- such a declaration wouldn't make the resurrection even remotely more "true" than it is right now.

But let's do that. Let's declare you a winner. And having done so, the only thing we'll ask in return is for YOUR evidence that Osiris was not also resurrected, as claimed in much of the writing of ancient Egypt -- much still available today on temple walls and elsewhere.

Yeah, go ahead and start your thread on Osiris and see how that works out for you.

 

[Jos]

Just trying to deny it won't work. Per the OP you must show evidence why it is allegedly false.

How can someone show evidence that such a thing is false? It's impossible. You're asking for people to do the impossible. How is that fair?

 

[Spartan]

People don't rise from the dead. For such an extraordinary claim of such a thing the burden is on you to prove it.

Per the OP, show us the replicated scientific studies that demonstrate that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist. Just making a non-scientific claim like you did doesn't fit the bill.

 

[Spartan]

This is actually a possible argument for the proper biblical interpretation of the resurrection. But to expect others to give it any credibility based on the weak evidence for it is an error on your part. You failed to show that there is any more evidence for that event than there is for Mohammad's trip to the Moon. If you believe one but not the other you are not being consistent in your reasoning.

Dry up with your moon nonsense.

And you still haven't provided a lick of evidence to back up your "resurrection is a myth" rant. Where's the beef?

 

[WalterTrull]

It's not a person but even if it were I would have to say IDK.

It's not??? Awful lot of posters here assume it is.

 

[Spartan]

The resurrection was "bodily" but not physical. Jesus's resurrection or spiritual body does things that no physical body could ever do. The risen Christ can pass through solid objects, appear and disappear at will, and ascend to heaven inside a cloud. Which means that his risen body was not composed of matter as we know it.

No physical resurrection ever happened. As Paul says, "the Lord is a spirit", and again that Jesus is a "vivifying" or "life-sparking" spirit. When the risen Jesus appeared to Paul, Paul did not report seeing a physical body with human features, but only a light and a voice.

The NT supplies one of the strongest arguments against a physical resurrection, namely, the empty tomb with its stone rolled away. If Jesus's resurrection body could really pass through solid obstacles, there is no need whatsoever for the stone to have been rolled away. That it is reported to have been rolled away indicates that an all-too-human agency was thought to have moved it. Jesus supposedly could have simply walked through the stone barrier. So there was no need for Jesus, God, angels, secret disciples or funeral directors to move the stone.

Thus the supposedly highly evidential rolled away stone strongly argues against the idea of a physical resurrection.

OK, so you have a THEORY and a CLAIM. Where's the evidence? All I have to say about Jesus appearing in a room suddenly is that Jesus is God per the scriptures, and can supernaturally appear however he wants.

 

[Milton Platt]

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ is the crux of Christianity. If Christ is not risen from the dead, Christianity dies an immediate death.

Countless times skeptics of Christianity in these fora have been challenged to 'bust' (falsify) the resurrection as it is presented in the New Testament, etc. Every time they've been challenged they run from it, or come up with some shallow argument which they never fully defend. Or they run to Genesis for cover. At no time that I can recall has anyone ever busted the resurrection, although the skeptics love to present wall-to-wall THEORIES on what might have otherwise occurred. They LOVE their theories and unfounded claims. But so far they have no credible evidence to substantiate those theories.

If anyone presents an argument that a (the) resurrection violates the laws of nature / physics, then they must present replicated and peer-approved scientific studies demonstrating that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist.

This thread is about the resurrection of Christ as seen in the Bible / Gospels / New Testament and early extra-biblical writings. Skeptics are invited to try to falsify it, using scriptural and/or historical arguments, etc. And if they can't bust the resurrection, they should strongly reconsider their contrary opinions on the matter.

Skeptics, let's see your bad-boy arguments, and do please endeavor to come up with some EVIDENCE to back up your arguments, and not just pontificate one theory after another!

I am an atheist and I agree with you...anyone who asserts a positive claim bears a burden of proof. I know quite a number of atheists....none of them hold any of the beliefs you listed. I know that some may...and I know that many discuss such hypotheses. All of that to say you should not paint any one large group with the same brush.

The issue for most atheists is that the stories in the Bible that make supernatural claims do not meet their burden of proof, either.

 

[Spartan]

How can someone show evidence that such a thing is false? It's impossible. You're asking for people to do the impossible. How is that fair?

If the Gospels are as big a fairy tale as many skeptics think, it should be easy to tear it apart. If it's false, why do so many people claim to have seen him? Are they all liars? Prove it. And why would the disciples - so afraid and hiding after the crucifixion - become so brave and determined to teach on the bodily resurrected Jesus? Why did James - a skeptic of Jesus - become a believer? And Thomas likewise? Was Paul lying when he said he had heard from Jesus? And where's the body if Jesus is still dead?

So, your denials don't fit in very well with the historical Gospels and Acts, etc.

 

[Spartan]

I am an atheist and I agree with you...anyone who asserts a positive claim bears a burden of proof. I know quite a number of atheists....none of them hold any of the beliefs you listed. I know that some may...and I know that many discuss such hypotheses. All of that to say you should not paint any one large group with the same brush.

The issue for most atheists is that the stories in the Bible that make supernatural claims do not meet their burden of proof, either.

Hello, Milton. How much have your really read on the resurrection of Jesus? Here's some recommended reading for you if you haven't:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;

“The Historical Jesus of the Gospels,” by Dr. Craig Keener

"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;

"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;

"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and

"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

“Miracles – The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts,” by Craig S. Keener

“The Case for Miracles,” by Lee Strobel

 

[Spartan]

What a silly post. It's akin to me stating that no one has EVER been able to provide credible evidence that I do not have an invisible magical dragon living in my garage. Anyone who knows anything about how logical arguments work knows that until I present some sort of verifiable evidence for my invisible magical dragon that actually exists, everyone else can dismiss my ridiculous claim as being completely unfounded and unworthy of their consideration.

Sorry, but what I have are multiple, independent, historical Gospels and epistles, along with various extra-biblical writings (over forty authors wrote about Jesus within 150 years of his death).

And what do you have to counter all that? Just a simple, unsubstantiated denial.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Just trying to deny it won't work. Per the OP you must show evidence why it is allegedly false.

There is no need to do anything of a sort. If you want to believe in the resurrection and ascension, that's on you. If you want to state such an extraordinary event happened, then its up to you to provide proof. Within the sacred scriptures of many religions are recorded fantastic and supernatural events. Are we to believe them all to be literally true, just because they are written in a book? Of course not, that would be preposterous. If the Gospel accounts of the resurrection are literally true then there would be independent sources that verify this event. In truth there are none. In regards the historicity of Jesus there's scarcely anything not written by Christians. Other than Josephus and Tacitus we have little to go on.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Per the OP, show us the replicated scientific studies that demonstrate that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist. Just making a non-scientific claim like you did doesn't fit the bill.

Prove that Zeus doesn't exist.