rocala
Well-Known Member
Maybe I missed something, but where did you ask this? And of whom.
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The Return of Christ
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, never. Jesus said we would see the Son of man coming in the clouds, but He never said we would see Him.
Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man...
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Have you seen the movie Braveheart? I'll assume so and say he also "endured to the end." As he was stretched on the rack and being disemboweled alive, he maintained his conviction and shouted FREEDOM. Jesus, as the story goes, questioned God as his pain became unbearable, but he never cursed Him, or doubted Him. His "perfection" endured until physical death.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
It was already answered
rocala
Well-Known Member
As someone who has great love for the English language, I would appreciate some effort in any replies.
They've been brainwashed into a belief that is designed to give hope to believers and spread doom to non believer's.
It may give believes hope but it doesn't bother not believers.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
That's all you see huh. Oh well
That's all I've experienced so don't knock it
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Especially since Jesus never promised to return to this world, but rather said his work was finished here and he was no more in the world.
Hope is all they have, yet they wait, and wait, and wait, and wait.....
Imo, the belief that Jesus is going to return and 'fix everything' that is wrong in this world is the most harmful belief that Christians hold.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
I think you're missing the whole point of jesus's return.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is kind of irrelevant since Jesus never said he would return to this world. He said he was no more in the world.
But what do you think the point is supposed to be?
How long are Christians going to wait for Jesus, till hell freezes over?
If Jesus did return, how would anyone know it was Jesus?
Why is it that you ask a question of non Christians then attemp to dis the answers?
Jimmy
Veteran Member
He did say he'd be back. I think it means exactly what it says that he will return.
Me too. And Quran and hadith say the same.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please post the NT verses where Jesus said He would return to earth.
Then explain why Jesus said the following, if He was planning to return to this world.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
No more means no further, never again.
no more
nothing further.
"there was no more to be said about it"
no further.
"you must have some soup, but no more wine"
exist no longer.
"the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
never again.
"mention his name no more to me"
neither.
"I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Please post the verses that say that the same man Jesus will return.
How would that even be possible, since physical bodies do not exist in heaven which is a spiritual world and spiritual bodies do not exist on earth?
وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَٰكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ ۚ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ ۚ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ ۚ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا | and for their saying, ‘We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah’—though they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but so it was made to appear to them. Indeed those who differ concerning him are surely in doubt about him: they do not have any knowledge of that beyond following conjectures, and certainly, they did not kill him. | An-Nisaa : 157
وَإِنْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ ۖ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا | And there is none among the People of the Book but will surely believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he will be a witness on them. | An-Nisaa : 159
وَلَمَّا ضُرِبَ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ مَثَلًا إِذَا قَوْمُكَ مِنْهُ يَصِدُّونَ | When the Son of Mary was cited as an example, behold, your people raise an outcry. | Az-Zukhruf : 57
وَقَالُوا أَآلِهَتُنَا خَيْرٌ أَمْ هُوَ ۚ مَا ضَرَبُوهُ لَكَ إِلَّا جَدَلًا ۚ بَلْ هُمْ قَوْمٌ خَصِمُونَ | They say, ‘Are our gods better or he?’ They cite him to you only for the sake of contention. Indeed, they are a contentious lot. | Az-Zukhruf : 58
إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ | He was just a servant whom We favored and made him an exemplar for the Children of Israel. | Az-Zukhruf : 59
وَلَوْ نَشَاءُ لَجَعَلْنَا مِنْكُمْ مَلَائِكَةً فِي الْأَرْضِ يَخْلُفُونَ | Had We wished We would have set angels from you on the earth as successors/authorities/representatives. | Az-Zukhruf : 60
وَإِنَّهُ لَعِلْمٌ لِلسَّاعَةِ فَلَا تَمْتَرُنَّ بِهَا وَاتَّبِعُونِ ۚ هَٰذَا صِرَاطٌ مُسْتَقِيمٌ | And ‘Indeed he is a portent of the Hour; so do not doubt it and follow me. This is a straight path. | Az-Zukhruf : 61
In Surah Nisa the context is about his death and says in fact, all people of the book will believe in him before his death and this shows "not killed nor crucified" is not talking about him being spiritually alive while physically dead.
In Surah Zukhruf, it's in context of not exaggerating the station of Isa (a). Those who God favored per Quran are the chosen ones, and not to make further than that in station. Then emphasizes he is not Angel either but will be a sign of the hour, which means he will come back.
And putting the two set of verses together is also helpful in contextualizing in each other meaning.
The hadiths also are numerous in that Jesus (a) will pray behind Imam Mahdi (a) and this is found in both Sunni and Shia sources.
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I recall having this conversation with you before.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't see anything in those verses that says that Jesus will return to earth.
Combining the two it's clear he is returning to me. Also, he is to believed in at the end times where not a people of the book will remain, but will believe in him. Every soul tastes death on earth "in it you die", and Isa (a) is not dead yet per these verses. He will be potent of the hour means he will come near the end times.