The Revealed Revelations of God

[Alceste]

Everyone makes a supreme authority. The difference is that some people make it themself, some make it G-d, some make it a different G/god(dess) or several, some make it...Chuck Norris, I don't know! We all find the authority that suits us best.

I haven't got an authoritarian bone in my body. I bow to no-one and would be faintly disgusted if anyone presumed to bow to me. So, there goes that theory.

The point I'm trying to get at (and I would do a better job if it weren't so late) is that I think when you attribute too much to culture and upbringing, you're cheapening (even if only unintentionally) the religious experience of others. There's the implication that people who follow the beliefs of their part of the world, they aren't fully considering their options. Now, some of 'em aren't, to be sure. I think that you can't attribute too much to cultural influences. Tangentially related is the point that we all develop belief systems that fit our conceptions of the world, regardless of whether those belifes or that world includes a god.

Here, let's be scientific about this. Let's say your hypothesis is that people reach their religious beliefs after a thorough period of soul-searching where all the alternatives are carefully considered, and religion has nothing to do with culture or upbringing. (This is to take one extreme position - not to misrepresent your post).

If this were the case, what evidence would you expect to see?

If religions were the result of nothing but soul-searching, we would expect to see a random geographical distribution of religious beliefs, and that these beliefs would be only weakly correlated with ethnic / cultural identifiers such as language.

Alternatively, if it is the case that religion was ENTIRELY the product of culture and upbringing (the other extreme), we would expect to see a geographical distribution of religions that correlates neatly with other cultural identifiers such as language.

Assuming these expectations are reasonable (and I think you'll agree that they are), we can have a look at how the world actually is and establish (roughly) the ratio of upbringing to soul-searching in influencing religious beliefs.

In fact, we see strongly concentrated geographic distribution of religions that happens to correlate very strongly to other cultural indicators. There is a little bit of "spillage" - Christians in Buddhist cultures, Buddhists in Christian cultures, etc. but these are generally very marginal in any given culture.

Given the above, it's safe to conclude that religion is strongly correlated with culture and upbringing and weakly correlated with individual soul searching.

 

[lockyfan]

You never know, I mean look at poor Pharaoh? He actually wanted to stop pursuing Moses but God wouldn't let him.

Not quite. God allowed his heart to harden, he didnt make it harden himself.

Pharoah was a proud man who wouldn listen. Kind of like Satan.



Also God does not destin you to do things. you mak your own choices. He has just allowed you that chance. But has provided the bible to help you to make he right choices that help you to serve and follow him correctly. It is man that has then put their own spin on it using religion and with the help of satan although not many are truly aware of satans power over this world rightnow and the fact that it is going to nd very soon

 

[biomystic]

Why are you still fighting ancient Iran's religious war with India? Don't know what I'm talking about? Satan. The Devil. This war against the "Devil" was initiated several thousand years ago when Iranian Suriyah worshipers, Suriyah being the name of their sun-god whose spiritual helpmates are called "asuras", labeled the Indian Vedic worshipers counterpart to asuras, the Devas, as evil spirits, devils in short. This was the beginning of the Abrahamic religious warfare against the Devil when Jews in exile in Babylon picked up the Iranian duality system where Light and Dark, Good and Evil continually battle it out in our world. Christianity just took this Deva warfare a step farther by making the Devil the Ruler of this earth.

The whole Abrahamic religious foundation was built on such sand and now we are entering the End Times of Abraham and the complete loss of spiritual authority of Judaism, Pauline Christianity, and Islam which base their idea of "righteousness" on Abraham.

It may seem odd but it's true nonetheless that both John the Baptist and Jesus are recorded as warning followers of God not to put their trust in Abraham, so Christianity should have been free of the fate of its Jewish predecessor. But this didn't happen because of Paul who reattached Christianity back to the Jewish veneration of Abraham. Only the Gnostic Christians ended up escaping Paul's spiritual error because they already had dethroned the whole Torah/Tanakh epic as well as the God of Israel. Pauline Christianity failed to heed Jesus' warning and now will be paying the same price as Judaism and Islam which is complete destruction of their spiritual authority that rests on the Jewish myths of Abraham.

Please see the End of Abraham topic for explanation why Abraham no longer can inspire anyone who values truth over myth as a basis of belief.

 

[lockyfan]

where did you get that Idea from. I am on Jehovahs side, which just happens to be NOT stans.

I am not fighting any war started by men. Satan started it by opposing God and i am coosing the side I want to be in on, That is the side of Jehovahs.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Not quite. God allowed his heart to harden, he didnt make it harden himself.

Pharoah was a proud man who wouldn listen. Kind of like Satan.

Exodus 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

 

[biomystic]

where did you get that Idea from. I am on Jehovahs side, which just happens to be NOT stans.

I am not fighting any war started by men. Satan started it by opposing God and i am coosing the side I want to be in on, That is the side of Jehovahs.

"Jehovah"? Then you aren't interested in historical truth, just Judeo-Christian religious propaganda? Can't debate rationally with that p.o.v...

 

[TashaN]

The Quran, revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel around 622 CE.

The Torah, revealed to Moses and other prophets and writers through direct communication with, or inspiration from, God.

The Bible (New Testament), revealed to the Gospel writers and through letters inspired by, or through communication with God.

Seven Valleys, the Four Valleys, Hidden Words and the Book of Certitude, revealed to Mirza Husayn-'Ali-i-Nuri (Baha'u'llah) through Godly inspiration.

The Book of Mormon, revealed to Joseph Smith by the Angel Moroni.

The Vedas, original authors unknown. Inspired by God.

Not to mention the many other supernaturally inspired revelations that have kick started the various world religions and faith practices.

A common theme among the revelations is God revealing him/her/itself to man. An explanation of life and the rules for living as set forth by God.
Amazingly, God allows interpretations by man to result in many sects deriving from one revelation. And contradictions between the supposed revelations themselves. Not to mention the many Godly inspired "truths' found everyday by religious leaders.
Of the many revelations, which one is a true revelation from God? Why would that one true revelation not be made to many? Or all?
What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

God has sent a revelation to specific people in a specific time. They might be a bit different from each other depending on the time which this revelation was revealed, and the Quran is the last revelation after the Gospel.

 

[tumbleweed41]

God has sent a revelation to specific people in a specific time. They might be a bit different from each other depending on the time which this revelation was revealed, and the Quran is the last revelation after the Gospel.

If being the last is what it takes, then the Mormons would disagree with you

 

[TashaN]

If being the last is what it takes, then the Mormons would disagree with you

Indeed, anyone can disagree with me. What i meant was that it was the last based on what we Muslims believe in. Whom should you believe? don't let others think for you, and there is no easy answer for this question. If you are really serious about this whole issue, then you need to read them all then compare and relate.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Indeed, anyone can disagree with me. What i meant was that it was the last based on what we Muslims believe in. Whom should you believe? don't let others think for you, and there is no easy answer for this question. If you are really serious about this whole issue, then you need to read them all then compare and relate.

Read the Bible and BoM, still working on the Quran...I do find it very poetic

 

[biomystic]

Indeed, anyone can disagree with me. What i meant was that it was the last based on what we Muslims believe in. Whom should you believe? don't let others think for you, and there is no easy answer for this question. If you are really serious about this whole issue, then you need to read them all then compare and relate.

But what will you believe when you discover Muhammad relied on Hebrew myths borrowed without attribution from pagan sources, e.g. the Hebrew myths of origin that have borrowed Vedic deities, Brahma and Sarasvati, who are then presented as human beings, Abraham and Sarah?

If Abraham falls to historical discovery, and this will happen because the historical information is there being rediscovered once again in our times, then the whole spiritual authority of Islam based on the actions of Abraham is null and void. What will Muslims do then when this information finally reaches thinking Muslim minds?

Luckily, God is not going to leave the Abrahamic believers bereft of spiritual guidance and even now God is providing a new spiritual foundation that will not be overturned in the future by historical discovery which has done in the Abrahamic religions' spiritual roots leaving only blind faith belief in obviously fallible words written by fallible human beings..

 

[TashaN]

Read the Bible and BoM, still working on the Quran...I do find it very poetic

I can help if you need to know anything while going through it.

 

[TashaN]

But what will you believe when you discover Muhammad relied on Hebrew myths borrowed without attribution from pagan sources, e.g. the Hebrew myths of origin that have borrowed Vedic deities, Brahma and Sarasvati, who are then presented as human beings, Abraham and Sarah?

If Abraham falls to historical discovery, and this will happen because the historical information is there being rediscovered once again in our times, then the whole spiritual authority of Islam based on the actions of Abraham is null and void. What will Muslims do then when this information finally reaches thinking Muslim minds?

Luckily, God is not going to leave the Abrahamic believers bereft of spiritual guidance and even now God is providing a new spiritual foundation that will not be overturned in the future by historical discovery which has done in the Abrahamic religions' spiritual roots leaving only blind faith belief in obviously fallible words written by fallible human beings..

You can believe that if you want, but you can't prove it. It's a mere speculation and guess work.

 

[biomystic]

You can believe that if you want, but you can't prove it. It's a mere speculation and guess work.

This is mere speculation and guesswork: Abraham=Brahma, Sarah=Sarasvati. Random chance coincidence could account for the similarities in names. But when you add Ghaggar=Hagar, when you add the self-proclaimed titles both Brahmins and Hebrews use, "priests of God", when you add the only planet playing a part in Brahma worship being Saturn and Saturn's Day being the linguistic base for Sabbath worship, when you add up the numbers of Sanskrit roots of Arabic words, add the Vedic worship rituals still found in Islamic worship, e.g. the seven circumambulations around the Kabaa, a ritual still found in northern Indian Shiva worship if memory serves, and on and on go the correspondences, it becomes a little more than speculative guesswork.

I do have to tell you that I am a religious visionary and the End of Abraham is a prophesy beginning its fulfillment. You didn't really believe God would let Abrahamic religious violence go unchecked forever did you?

 

[TashaN]

You didn't really believe God would let Abrahamic religious violence go unchecked forever did you?

 

[biomystic]

Is that you turning a blind eye to historic reality of the continual warfare of Abrahamic believers in action? Until we face the reasons why Abrahamic religions continue to foster some of the worst treatment of our fellow human beings imaginable, we will continue to be at their mercy and wars will continue to happen like clockwork. We need to do better and that requires better guidance than what Abrahamic religions have provided. You build your edifice on sand and eventually it will wash away. People who depend on religions coming out of the desert have yet to learn this basic lesson.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Indeed, anyone can disagree with me. What i meant was that it was the last based on what we Muslims believe in.

Looking at this again, it seems you are saying that for a revelation to be considered true, it must conform to your beliefs.
Am I correct?

 

[TashaN]

Is that you turning a blind eye to historic reality of the continual warfare of Abrahamic believers in action? Until we face the reasons why Abrahamic religions continue to foster some of the worst treatment of our fellow human beings imaginable, we will continue to be at their mercy and wars will continue to happen like clockwork. We need to do better and that requires better guidance than what Abrahamic religions have provided. You build your edifice on sand and eventually it will wash away. People who depend on religions coming out of the desert have yet to learn this basic lesson.

What is the basic lesson? teach me please!

 

[TashaN]

Looking at this again, it seems you are saying that for a revelation to be considered true, it must conform to your beliefs.
Am I correct?

God said that Mohammed is the last Messenger and Quran to be the last revelation. It's as simple as that.

 

[biomystic]

What is the basic lesson? teach me please!

We are Holy One. God's Goodness is universally found in most every human society no matter what religious beliefs are practiced. God cannot be thought of as some sort of Divine Water Hole where a Sheik rules and determines who gets water and who doesn't.