The Revealed Revelations of God

[biomystic]

God said that Mohammed is the last Messenger and Quran to be the last revelation. It's as simple as that.

Have you read the Torah and how Hebrews believed that no further revelation was possible from God? Did this stop God from sending more prophets with further revelations? No. Have you read Paul and Revelation which also claimed to be the final revelation, no additions possible? If any of them were the truth, then Islam wouldn't be here, would it? It is the mark of Abrahamic religious founders to close off possible future competition from others for the Word of God which also marks Abrahamic religions as fraudulent because obviously God ignores such founder's conceit, sending in prophets starting new religions whenever it pleased God to do so. Times change and with them so too the spiritual guidance needs of humanity. This is the underlying meaning of "God is God of the living, not the dead." So it's not really as "simple as that" unless you're willing to ignore the history of religious beliefs. And this doesn't even touch the non-Abrahamic religious beliefs which while Abrahamics might ignore, God doesn't because God is God of All, not just one part of humanity accepting one particular book over another.

 

[jtartar]

The Quran, revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel around 622 CE.

The Torah, revealed to Moses and other prophets and writers through direct communication with, or inspiration from, God.

The Bible (New Testament), revealed to the Gospel writers and through letters inspired by, or through communication with God.

Seven Valleys, the Four Valleys, Hidden Words and the Book of Certitude, revealed to Mirza Husayn-'Ali-i-Nuri (Baha'u'llah) through Godly inspiration.

The Book of Mormon, revealed to Joseph Smith by the Angel Moroni.

The Vedas, original authors unknown. Inspired by God.

Not to mention the many other supernaturally inspired revelations that have kick started the various world religions and faith practices.

A common theme among the revelations is God revealing him/her/itself to man. An explanation of life and the rules for living as set forth by God.
Amazingly, God allows interpretations by man to result in many sects deriving from one revelation. And contradictions between the supposed revelations themselves. Not to mention the many Godly inspired "truths' found everyday by religious leaders.
Of the many revelations, which one is a true revelation from God? Why would that one true revelation not be made to many? Or all?
What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

tumbleweed,
There is only ONE book that was inspired by the Almighty God, whose personal name is Jehovah. This book is the Holy Bible, and is the word of God. This book answers all questions and gives the way for man to get to know their creator. This book is the only book that tells man why we are in the condition we are in, why we die, and what God is going to do to right all the wrongs that have been done on earth.
The Bible tells us that God's word is REFINED and that nothing should be added to it, Prov 30:5,6, and that God Himself will protect His word, Ps 12:6,7.
God inspired His word to tell all mankiind not to add to His word, or to take away from His word, Rev 22:18,19.
Even more to the point is what is said at Gal 1:6-9. These verses tell all that they are CURSED, if they add to the word written in the Bible.
Everything we need to be pleasing to the God that made all things in heaven and on earth are written in the Holy Scriptures. All we have to do is study God's word to get the answers to all of our problems, Matt 6:8,33, 2Tim 3:16,17.
The God that inspired the Holy Scriptures tell us that all these ones CALLED gods are NON-EXISTENT, and that He intends to do away with them and all those who worship them, Ps 115:1-8, Jere 10:10,11.

 

[jtartar]

What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

tumbleweed,
To estabolish the truth of a revelation you must understand what God's purpose is for the earth. If the revelation does not fit into God's purpose it is false.
The only way to understand the Holy Scriptures is a serious study of God's word.
We must remember that the term intertextuality means that every scripture is related to all other scripture.
The only revelation to men was put into writing by about 40 men and had been recorded in God's word, the Bible. There is NO revelation to men except what is written, so we need to understand what God's purpose is to see if a revelation is true. All of God's word is in complete harmony. Most things that are a mystery in the Greek Scriptures are explained to us, if we understand the Hebrew Scriptures.
To understand these revelations we must draw close to God through prayer, by obeying His commandments,and an indepth study of His word, 1Cor 2:10-16.

 

[tumbleweed41]

tumbleweed,
There is only ONE book that was inspired by the Almighty God, whose personal name is Jehovah. This book is the Holy Bible, and is the word of God. This book answers all questions and gives the way for man to get to know their creator. This book is the only book that tells man why we are in the condition we are in, why we die, and what God is going to do to right all the wrongs that have been done on earth.
The Bible tells us that God's word is REFINED and that nothing should be added to it, Prov 30:5,6, and that God Himself will protect His word, Ps 12:6,7.

Prov 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
Add thou not unto his words lest he reprove thee and thou be found a liar
Ps 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words as silver tried in a furnace of earth purified seven times
Thou shalt keep them O LORD thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever

You must be mistaken then. By these standards, the Tanakh and the Septuagint are the true revelations of God.

 

[Fatihah]

The Quran, revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel around 622 CE.

The Torah, revealed to Moses and other prophets and writers through direct communication with, or inspiration from, God.

The Bible (New Testament), revealed to the Gospel writers and through letters inspired by, or through communication with God.

Seven Valleys, the Four Valleys, Hidden Words and the Book of Certitude, revealed to Mirza Husayn-'Ali-i-Nuri (Baha'u'llah) through Godly inspiration.

The Book of Mormon, revealed to Joseph Smith by the Angel Moroni.

The Vedas, original authors unknown. Inspired by God.

Not to mention the many other supernaturally inspired revelations that have kick started the various world religions and faith practices.

A common theme among the revelations is God revealing him/her/itself to man. An explanation of life and the rules for living as set forth by God.
Amazingly, God allows interpretations by man to result in many sects deriving from one revelation. And contradictions between the supposed revelations themselves. Not to mention the many Godly inspired "truths' found everyday by religious leaders.
Of the many revelations, which one is a true revelation from God? Why would that one true revelation not be made to many? Or all?
What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

Response: The taurat (the revelation revealed to Moses) and the injil (the revelation revealed to Jesus) and the qur'an are revelations from Allah(God). We know so from the qur'an, which itself is a living miracle. What makes it miraculous is because it is the only revelation which can be proven to be the authentic and truthful word of Allah(swt). What is that proof?

In the qur'an we read:
"Will they not then, meditate upon the Qur'an. Had it been from any one other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". (4:82).

"And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers, beside Allah, if you are truthful". (2:23).

Here we have two tests that proves that the qur'an is from Allah. For not only is it free of discrepancy, but it is impossible to produce a chapter like the qur'an because every chapter is miraculous. That miracle being, that it is absolutely impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. Because Muhammad did in fact use the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands.

 

[biomystic]

Response: The taurat (the revelation revealed to Moses) and the injil (the revelation revealed to Jesus) and the qur'an are revelations from Allah(God). We know so from the qur'an, which itself is a living miracle. What makes it miraculous is because it is the only revelation which can be proven to be the authentic and truthful word of Allah(swt). What is that proof?

In the qur'an we read:
"Will they not then, meditate upon the Qur'an. Had it been from any one other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". (4:82).

"And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers, beside Allah, if you are truthful". (2:23).

Here we have two tests that proves that the qur'an is from Allah. For not only is it free of discrepancy, but it is impossible to produce a chapter like the qur'an because every chapter is miraculous. That miracle being, that it is absolutely impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. Because Muhammad did in fact use the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands.

"Here we have two tests that proves that the qur'an is from Allah. For not only is it free of discrepancy, but it is impossible to produce a chapter like the qur'an because every chapter is miraculous. That miracle being, that it is absolutely impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. Because Muhammad did in fact use the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get?"

This is illogical reasoning because using this standard every conquering horde with a religious belief system would have the blessings of God. And ancient Egypt would remain King of the world's religions because their religious/political system lasted longer than any others on earth. You are in essence equating power politics with approval of God. And by your own standard Christianity is the world's religion most favored by God since we Christians with our superior numbers dominate so many different countries. Do you really believe this entitles us to think our religion is thereby of God? Power politics and favor from God are not one and the same except to people for whom power and greatness is more important than goodness of behavior. It's time to learn God is Good and not just God is Great.

 

[Mr Cheese]

tumbleweed,
There is only ONE book that was inspired by the Almighty God, whose personal name is Jehovah. This book is the Holy Bible, and is the word of God. This book answers all questions and gives the way for man to get to know their creator..

you cant argue with logic like that....

.........

"The Force is our servant and our master. Our teacher and our companion. A weapon and a tool. Know it and you know the universe. Master it and you master the universe. Strive for perfection and the Force shall reward you." - Yuthura Ban

 

[Fatihah]

"Here we have two tests that proves that the qur'an is from Allah. For not only is it free of discrepancy, but it is impossible to produce a chapter like the qur'an because every chapter is miraculous. That miracle being, that it is absolutely impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation.

This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. Because Muhammad did in fact use the qur'an to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get?"

This is illogical reasoning because using this standard every conquering horde with a religious belief system would have the blessings of God.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? From your words above, we find no proof that every conquering horde with a belief system had the blessing of God, just a statement saying so. To inspire enough followers to conquer a nation using a new religious scripture is impossible. Muhammad did the impossible, using the qur'an, proving that the qur'an is the true word of Allah and that Muhammad is a true prophet. No one has ever created a belief system and used it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation except Muhammad. No one. You disagree? Produce your proof.

 

[Charity]

The Quran, revealed to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel around 622 CE.

The Torah, revealed to Moses and other prophets and writers through direct communication with, or inspiration from, God.

The Bible (New Testament), revealed to the Gospel writers and through letters inspired by, or through communication with God.

Seven Valleys, the Four Valleys, Hidden Words and the Book of Certitude, revealed to Mirza Husayn-'Ali-i-Nuri (Baha'u'llah) through Godly inspiration.

The Book of Mormon, revealed to Joseph Smith by the Angel Moroni.

The Vedas, original authors unknown. Inspired by God.

Not to mention the many other supernaturally inspired revelations that have kick started the various world religions and faith practices.

A common theme among the revelations is God revealing him/her/itself to man. An explanation of life and the rules for living as set forth by God.
Amazingly, God allows interpretations by man to result in many sects deriving from one revelation. And contradictions between the supposed revelations themselves. Not to mention the many Godly inspired "truths' found everyday by religious leaders.
Of the many revelations, which one is a true revelation from God? Why would that one true revelation not be made to many? Or all?
What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

You forgot the burning bush and sometimes it's not the wind or the fire, but through that still small voice.
It's just that sometimes people don't shut up long enough to hear that still small voice. It's not an audible voice persay but through the heart and spirit that you feel it.......

 

[TashaN]

God cannot be thought of as some sort of Divine Water Hole where a Sheik rules and determines who gets water and who doesn't.

Who told you that is the case with Islam?

Have you read the Torah and how Hebrews believed that no further revelation was possible from God? Did this stop God from sending more prophets with further revelations? No. Have you read Paul and Revelation which also claimed to be the final revelation, no additions possible? If any of them were the truth, then Islam wouldn't be here, would it? It is the mark of Abrahamic religious founders to close off possible future competition from others for the Word of God which also marks Abrahamic religions as fraudulent because obviously God ignores such founder's conceit, sending in prophets starting new religions whenever it pleased God to do so. Times change and with them so too the spiritual guidance needs of humanity. This is the underlying meaning of "God is God of the living, not the dead." So it's not really as "simple as that" unless you're willing to ignore the history of religious beliefs. And this doesn't even touch the non-Abrahamic religious beliefs which while Abrahamics might ignore, God doesn't because God is God of All, not just one part of humanity accepting one particular book over another.

Sorry my friend, but the OT & NT disagree with you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/19750-mohamed-pbuh-bible.html

 

[biomystic]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? From your words above, we find no proof that every conquering horde with a belief system had the blessing of God, just a statement saying so. To inspire enough followers to conquer a nation using a new religious scripture is impossible. Muhammad did the impossible, using the qur'an, proving that the qur'an is the true word of Allah and that Muhammad is a true prophet. No one has ever created a belief system and used it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation except Muhammad. No one. You disagree? Produce your proof.

Proof? Try the Greeks with Alexander's conquests and infusion of Greek religious and philosophical concepts into a great many ancient cultures. Try Caesar and all the Roman rulers after him conquering another huge empire and controlling it for centuries. Try Constantin's Rome spreading Christianity throughout the Roman Empire and Europe. Try Karl Marx and spreading his Communist religion in a huge conquest of nations around the world. You want to believe God is with the Strong against the weak and as a Christian I'm not buying this sort of political power standard of measurement of the worth of a religious belief system. Read history of other societies besides Muhammad's Islamic ones and learn Muhammad wasn't the first or last to use conquest by force as a means to spread his doctrines.

 

[biomystic]

Who told you that is the case with Islam?



Sorry my friend, but the OT & NT disagree with you.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/religious-debates/19750-mohamed-pbuh-bible.html

Sorry, but I am a Gnostic Christian and our beliefs are not bound by either the OT or NT. And anyway, the fact that there have been prophets of God after Muhammad shows that God doesn't seem to be bound either by the Abrahamic fallacy that prophesy stops with Moses and Judaism, oops, with Malachi, oops, with Paul and Revelation and Pauline Christianity, oops, with Muhammad and Islam, oops, with Ba'ha'i, oops, with Joseph Smith and Mormonism, oops, with Mary Baker Eddy and Christian Science, do I need to go further before you understand that God and history seem unable to follow the claims of revelation from God stopping at one particular point in history or with one particular individual? "God is God of the living, not the dead" is the spiritual wisdom that allows us to understand this fact of history.

 

[McBell]

No one has ever created a belief system and used it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation except Muhammad.

ROTFLMAO

You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a really hard time believing that Islam is a religion of peace?

I mean, here you are, so proud of the violence perpetrated by your beloved prophet, that you even refer to his conquering as proof of Allah, then whine when people do not believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Wheres the proof?
Read your own damn post!

 

[Fatihah]

ROTFLMAO

You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a really hard time believing that Islam is a religion of peace?

I mean, here you are, so proud of the violence perpetrated by your beloved prophet, that you even refer to his conquering as proof of Allah, then whine when people do not believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Wheres the proof?
Read your own damn post!

Response: Subhan Allah.

Still trolling? You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a hard time believing that you are not just a sad cry for attention from losing every argument you put forth.

I mean, here you are, so proud of trolling, commenting on every word I utter, even making your very first post of the thread a post not relating to the topic, but to me. Then whine when people do not believe that you have absolutely any credibility.

Where's the proof? Read your own post.

 

[biomystic]

Fatihah;1829815]Response: Subhan Allah.

"Still trolling? You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a hard time believing that you are not just a sad cry for attention from losing every argument you put forth.

I mean, here you are, so proud of trolling, commenting on every word I utter, even making your very first post of the thread a post not relating to the topic, but to me. Then whine when people do not believe that you have absolutely any credibility."

Fatihah, until you yourself start addressing our questions with real answers and not put-downs for asking questions or having opinions different from yours, then you haven't a leg to stand on in this debate. You've made a pretty silly statement here and now won't defend it except trying to use a child's ploy of echoing back the same criticism leveled at you.

"No one has ever created a belief system and used it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation except Muhammad."


I mean this statement begs for questioning by most any non-Muslim due to the behavior non-Muslims see daily in the news about another Muslim bombing more Muslims to bits or non-Muslims. One could make a serious case that Islam is not only not a religion of peace, it is a militant religion for suicide bombers and look out anyone in the way!

 

[McBell]

Response: Subhan Allah.

Still trolling? You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a hard time believing that you are not just a sad cry for attention from losing every argument you put forth.

I mean, here you are, so proud of trolling, commenting on every word I utter, even making your very first post of the thread a post not relating to the topic, but to me. Then whine when people do not believe that you have absolutely any credibility.

Where's the proof? Read your own post.

Thank you for furthering my point.

 

[Hawkins]

What are the criteria for establishing that a revelation is truly from God?

1. Religion is about faith. Yet not all religions have the self-awareness to realise that they themselves are of faith. From my speculation, only Abrahamic religions have such a self-awareness. The main theme is "you are saved by faith" or "you need faith to be saved".

2. Ultimately, a 'true' religion is about how one's after life is, which is the only part where 'FAITH' is demanded the most. Because we don't know what life will be after death, we need faith either to believe life continues, or we need the same amount of faith to believe that life ceases to continue after death.

As a result, religion can hardly be eradicated from humanity as long as humans cannot deliever a satisfactory answer about "will life continue after death, does soul exist?" Religons will continue to exist because you need faith to answer this question. And to a certain extent, you have to answer this question within your life time, subconscously if not conscously. It is thus a faith question demanding a faith answer for everyone to go through.

3. Now how practical religion is to address the question like "will life continue, or does soul exist?". To put it another way, how practical religions are in offering the saving of souls, that is, how practical the salvation theology is.

Amongst all religions, only Christianity offers the solution of Sin Atonement. All others are almost exclusively about the supressing of sin using strict rules which at least humans today can hardly abide by. They can't be practical enough to save human souls.

It seems that one sin atonement is practical enough to save a certain portion of human souls. As an illustration, how many humans before 30s of last century can get their hands on nudity? Very few. How about today? With the widespreading of the Internet, few can get away from nudity and exotics. Abrahamic God hates adultery so much that women in the middle east will have to wrap them up like mummies to avoid sin. So in today's world, how many can survive God's judgment if few of us can be fully away from nudity and exotics.

It only says that the only practical religion which fits the past and fits today and fits the future is Christianity.

4. Everyone can claim that he's inspired from God. What is needed at least theologically to distinguish the truth from the fake? It is witnessing! By the religion of the Jews, and it is emphasized in both OT and NT that false witnessing is a dead sin. Chritianity is developed by witnessing, at least so theologically speaking. Jesus Christ's deed is declared to be witnessed. Christianity spreaded so quickly because it is said that (theologicall at least) Jesus Christ's disciples are willing to die as a witnessing for His death, resurrection and ascension.

5. If it is said that the prophets can deliver messages from God, how will they know that those messages are truly from God the high power, instead of delusion and such? Again, theologically at least, prophecies and miracles are brain independent. And God may use them to confirm that the messages are from a higher power.

Acts 14:3
So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.

So God inspires men by putting messages into their brains, then performing message-related miracles of allowing prophecies to come true to confirm that the messages are from HIm.

To put it another way, God uses miracles and prophecies as testimony/witness for His own messages. Christianity is thus theologically sound, as it seems that the Bible contains tons of prophecies from the prophets and tons of miracles from those Jews who abide by the dogma that false witness is not allowed.

Proverbs 19:9 (OT)
A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will perish.

Revelation 21:8 (NT)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

6. Humans are imperfect. Jesus makes a difference because His deity is known to His followers. God will choose a group of imperfect minds to craft the Bible such that His will will be done through the Holy Bible, by the hands of the imperfect humans. This is also a factor of witnessing. A group of prophets acting consistently saying the same thing as part of the witnessing of His truth is theologically sound instead of through a single person.

7. God knows the past and He knows the future. Has any God presented his case about a prophecy for his own religion and the book his inspired? Other than Christian God, it seems none. And God sent out His challenge for the false gods long time ago through His prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 41:21-24
"Present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.
"Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come,
tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear.
But you are less than nothing and your works are utterly worthless; he who chooses you is detestable.


Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

So now the Holy Bible is the all time best selling book.

Acts 13:47
For this is what the Lord has commanded us: "I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth."

So now Christianity is the most widespreaded religion of the world with 1/3 humans as its followers.

No another book nor another religion can ever foresaw its own future like this.

 

[biomystic]

As a Christian prophesy bearer Christians are to be warned that Pauline Christianity is headed for its End Times of spiritual authority along with the other religions based on Abraham's model of "righteousness".

Both John the Baptist and Jesus warned believers not to place their faith solely on Abraham and now we are finding out why. The story of Abraham and Sarah is a Jewish invention using the Vedic god of creation, Brahma and his consort, Sarasvati, the Vedic goddess of wisdom, come to earth and recast as Hebrew progenitors, "Abraham" and "Sarah". There's a lot more to this but this is the essence of the Jewish religious fraud that is being revealed again as it has periodically been since the time of the Greeks. Already, the Jewish story of Moses and the Exodus has been exposed as more ancient Hebrew myth-making by Israeli archeologists themselves rendering the whole Sinai Covenant null and void of spiritual authority.

So while Jesus made some effort to separate his followers from basing their faith in God on the supposed faith shown by Abraham, Paul reattached Christian theology back to the Abrahamic and Mosaic religious myths. Thus Paul and all Christians who base their Christian beliefs on Paul's gospel instead of Jesus' teachings are going to be left bereft until they realize God really is God of the living, not the dead. EL Elyon, God Most High, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, won't fail but the story of Abraham will.

Yes, it's true Christianity is still the No. I religion in the world but it too will undergo a huge change as historical discovery keeps undermining both Old and New Testament myths of origin. Only the Gnostic form of Christianity that was never attached to the Abrahamic mythologies and completely divorced from the god of Israel will survive the End of Abraham and the end of Paul's theology overshadowing Jesus' teachings. God is has reached Their limit of tolerating Abrahamic abuse of God consciousness and wants the spiritual ground cleared for a new replanting of the Spirit of Christ in order to stop the incessant religious warfare between Abrahamic religionists. Enough is enough and 2500 years of Abrahamic inspired religious warfare that has left a bloody trail through history of millions of unnecessary deaths will come to and end with the fall of Abraham to historical discovery. This will be the final way the current Zionist Jewish and Christian religious war with Muslims that is centered in the Israel-Palestinian conflict will be brought to an end.

 

[Fatihah]

Proof? Try the Greeks with Alexander's conquests and infusion of Greek religious and philosophical concepts into a great many ancient cultures. Try Caesar and all the Roman rulers after him conquering another huge empire and controlling it for centuries. Try Constantin's Rome spreading Christianity throughout the Roman Empire and Europe. Try Karl Marx and spreading his Communist religion in a huge conquest of nations around the world. You want to believe God is with the Strong against the weak and as a Christian I'm not buying this sort of political power standard of measurement of the worth of a religious belief system. Read history of other societies besides Muhammad's Islamic ones and learn Muhammad wasn't the first or last to use conquest by force as a means to spread his doctrines.

Response:Neither Alexander the Great, Constantine, Caesar, or any of the names in which you've mentioned have ever created a religion. Secondly, neither of them came to power by using their created religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. None of them. Were they conquerers? Yes. Did they conquer nations? Yes. But none of them came into power and conquered anyone in the manner explained to you. None of them created a religion, nor did their followers conquer for them because they were inspired by their made up religion. Thus you have no proof, and the miracle of the qur'an and Muhammad is still valid.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah;1829815]Response: Subhan Allah.

"Still trolling? You make statements like this and then wonder why people have a hard time believing that you are not just a sad cry for attention from losing every argument you put forth.

I mean, here you are, so proud of trolling, commenting on every word I utter, even making your very first post of the thread a post not relating to the topic, but to me. Then whine when people do not believe that you have absolutely any credibility."

Fatihah, until you yourself start addressing our questions with real answers and not put-downs for asking questions or having opinions different from yours, then you haven't a leg to stand on in this debate. You've made a pretty silly statement here and now won't defend it except trying to use a child's ploy of echoing back the same criticism leveled at you.

"No one has ever created a belief system and used it to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation except Muhammad."


I mean this statement begs for questioning by most any non-Muslim due to the behavior non-Muslims see daily in the news about another Muslim bombing more Muslims to bits or non-Muslims. One could make a serious case that Islam is not only not a religion of peace, it is a militant religion for suicide bombers and look out anyone in the way!

Response: And until you've answered the challenge and proved it wrong, then your own words prove to the contrary. One can make as many arguments as they wish against islam, but like them all, they are merely just that. Arguments. No proof.