The rules for leaving Islam and life after Islam -

[LuisDantas]

Still, as far as I know the scripture does indeed technically demand them to. - that incorrect it does - read my orginal post

Saying that AFAIK you are correct does not make me incorrect, now does it?

 

[currypowder]

I think you're meeting additional questions because your posts have been rather glib
regarding the astounding position that rejecting Islam warrants death. We'd like to
see someone elaborate on all facets of the execution of former Muslims.

Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind,
that they should be put to death for it? And if they aren't killed, is this a sin in Islam?[/quote]

that is an excellent question would love a response to that ,

 

[currypowder]

It is still? I know of a Muslim woman who converted to Christianity, IIRC to ease up her marriage to a Christian man. Is that considered treason, regardless of other facts or circunstances? Are Muslims duty-bound to kill her?

Or maybe she is not really a traitor, perhaps at least in part because Christianity is a Faith of the Book? Or better yet, because she is not actually betraying anybody?



Maybe they wouldn't if they expected to be killed if they change their hearts and minds about Islam. Why should love and faith be considered warlike activities anyway? I can see it under some circunstances, but certainly not in most.



Learning to love God's message and to express it alongside fellow Muslims, I would assume. Then again, there are also social aspects that are not to be despised. The warmth and support of a community of fellow believers is a very real and often precious gift.



Hopefully we have reached a clearer goal by now.

Maybe they wouldn't if they expected to be killed if they change their hearts and minds about Islam. Why should love and faith be considered warlike activities anyway? I can see it under some circunstances, but certainly not in most. - really when is that ok

 

[Badran]

The rules for leaving Islam and life after Islam - explained

Thre isa only one rule - accrding to the Islamic teachings you must die, i will prove please read below

I will explain what i understand from each versus but i would really like a well balance response on this- let’s begin


........


this verse seems totally flawed and you can see that by the fact your are not allowed to own a bible in Saudi or if you do you will be in very big trouble , so which verse in the Quran do you believe and life by ?, i would say that verse (Quran 2:256) was put in there to offset all the other versus that talk about leaving Islam and being killed if you do , it seems to me there can be only one conclusion Islam teaches if you want to leave you must die - thats disgusting -but also a clever way to make sure the relgion always grows and gets bigger

please please dont use the argument that Islam is a very serious descion you make so on and on......utter and total rubbish .....you should be free to choose any religion and leave it if you want , and leave it for God to deal with you in the afterlife .I would love a reply on this I cant see any way to defend but eagerly look forward to the reply……..peace and many thanks

NOTE:This is not Islam bashing - many people want to know why tehre is so much Islam basign now days - that becasue more peple have had the chance to study the quran in english and see waht it really has to say instead of relying on the imam for information, imo

Not all muslims believe that killing converts is part of the teachings. Here is the whole idea. First, there are some who consider that merely leaving Islam as a religion and not as a community and without treason to be worthy of death, and that is wrong and i don't believe that Islam teaches this ridiculous idea. That you should be killed for your religious views, or views in general. Islam guarantees freedom of religion as stated in the Quran, and there should be no compulsion in this matter, naturally.

Leaving Islam and changing to whichever other religion or no religion at all is not a crime and obviously it can not be punished at all. This idea contradicts with other teachings of Islam. The problem is some people equate leaving Islam with treason, and i can't see how.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You gotta problem with that?

It is attitudes like this that give the Islamaphobes their ammunition.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Not all muslims believe that killing converts is part of the teachings. Here is the whole idea. First, there are some who consider that merely leaving Islam as a religion and not as a community and without treason to be worthy of death, and that is wrong and i don't believe that Islam teaches this ridiculous idea. That you should be killed for your religious views, or views in general. Islam guarantees freedom of religion as stated in the Quran, and there should be no compulsion in this matter, naturally.

Leaving Islam and changing to whichever other religion or no religion at all is not a crime and obviously it can not be punished at all. This idea contradicts with other teachings of Islam. The problem is some people equate leaving Islam with treason, and i can't see how.

Thank you.

 

[currypowder]

Not all muslims believe that killing converts is part of the teachings. Here is the whole idea. First, there are some who consider that merely leaving Islam as a religion and not as a community and without treason to be worthy of death, and that is wrong and i don't believe that Islam teaches this ridiculous idea. That you should be killed for your religious views, or views in general. Islam guarantees freedom of religion as stated in the Quran, and there should be no compulsion in this matter, naturally.

Leaving Islam and changing to whichever other religion or no religion at all is not a crime and obviously it can not be punished at all. This idea contradicts with other teachings of Islam. The problem is some people equate leaving Islam with treason, and i can't see how.

The problem is some people equate leaving Islam with treason, and i can't see how.[/quote] - waht you cant be seroius - the quran says and islamic teachings say its reason and punishaBLE BY DEATH , this is a discuccion on how the quran instrucs muslims to live , not waht you think it says

and that is wrong and i don't believe that Islam teaches this ridiculous

you say its wrong but please see my orginal post that was islamv teaches

 

[currypowder]

Thank you.

thank you for what

 

[Badran]

I accept them THEN I think about them and find the wisdom behind it, thats what we call submission ( Islam)

How can you accept them without understanding first? That would be meaningless. You can follow the supposed rules without understanding or questioning them, but that isn't good in anyway. When you understand and agree you can reach a far better state.

During wars, if a citizen of a country betrays it and tell the war secrets to the enmy, does he get killed? Yes, he didnt just " share the same views" with the country, he betrayed it.

Islam is more precious than any war secrets, whoever accepts it must be sure he wont leave it. You should think about it way before accepting it, and still, hundreds of people converts everyday.

Changing your religion is not like selling or giving war secretes. One is merely following his feelings and mind which tells them that they do not believe in Islam any more, and therefore do not want to follow it. The other is selling the secretes of his country and causing direct damage to others

 

[currypowder]

would love a response to this

Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind,
that they should be put to death for it? And if they aren't killed, is this a sin in Islam?[/quote]

 

[Badran]

you say its wrong but please see my orginal post that was islamv teaches

I read it. In the Quran, this is not taught. It is clarified that people have freedom of religion. And when it mentions people who convert, it doesn't mention or imply any kind of punishments in life.

As far as the Hadiths, like i said lots of scholars address this issue and explain that death is for traitors. As in people who leave Islam as a community, meaning that they turn on them and betray them, not merely leave the religion. There is a thread explaining these hadiths, if you like i could post it for you.

 

[tumbleweed41]

waht you cant be seroius - the quran says and islamic teachings say its reason and punishaBLE BY DEATH , this is a discuccion on how the quran instrucs muslims to live , not waht you think it says

So the discussion is about who YOU think it says?
Like LuisDante implied, are you actually trying to tell Badran he is not fundamental enough?
There are many different sects and beliefs in Islam, just as there are in Christianity.
Fatima exhibits the extremist fundamentalist faction.
Badran exhibits the more reasonable faction.
Rather than just basic reading of the Qu'ran and Hadiths, and attacking all of Islam, you would do better to study the differing beliefs and schools of Islam.
Ahmadiyya, Shi'a, Suffi, Sunni, Wahabi, etc

 

[Badran]

would love a response to this
Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind, that they should be put to death for it?

I don't know. But those who view it as part of the teachings, will naturally teach it among it. However, this supposed rule is not carried out today. May be it happens in certain places, but generally and most muslim countries, and other countries, naturally its not.

And if they aren't killed, is this a sin in Islam?

Not following one of the teachings is a sin, but since this isn't part of the teachings (according at least to some muslims including me), therefore its not a sin. Killing people for changing their religion however would be a major sin.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you join, & then later reject Revoltifarianism, we give you a going away party...with beer & BLTs.
We believe in enticing people to not just join, but also to return after becoming disenchanted with us.
It sounds like Badran & many Muslims are similarly welcoming...but without the beer & BLTs.

 

[tumbleweed41]

thank you for what

I was thanking Badran for his reasonable and rational response.

 

[currypowder]

I read it. In the Quran, this is not taught. It is clarified that people have freedom of religion. And when it mentions people who convert, it doesn't mention or imply any kind of punishments in life.

As far as the Hadiths, like i said lots of scholars address this issue and explain that death is for traitors. As in people who leave Islam as a community, meaning that they turn on them and betray them, not merely leave the religion. There is a thread explaining these hadiths, if you like i could post it for you.

SO SO WHAT if they As in people who leave Islam as a community, meaning that they turn on them and betray them , so its there personnal choice to decide at any point to change from islam and to tell others why they left islam - there must have been a resaon waht wrong with that , does any otehr relgion say you shall be killed if you leave also would love a resposne on this

Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind,that they should be put to death for it? is that a sin to warn someone before they commit

 

[currypowder]

I was thanking Badran for his reasonable and rational response.

why he did no answer the question at all , this discusssion is about what the quran says , not waht you say , so let me get this straight are you saying islm does not teach that if a person turnes his back he will be killed , so waht does it teach about leaVING ISLAM ?

 

[Badran]

SO SO WHAT if they As in people who leave Islam as a community, meaning that they turn on them and betray them , so its there personnal choice to decide at any point to change from islam and to tell others why they left islam - there must have been a resaon waht wrong with that , does any otehr relgion say you shall be killed if you leave

May be you'd like to calm down, and reread what i said?

I said turning on the community. As in treason, the common understanding of it.

Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind,that they should be put to death for it?

Already answered that.

is that a sin to warn someone before they commit

Of course not, what kind of question is that. Even for those who do believe this is part of the teachings it wouldn't be a sin to warn, it would actually be an obligation. They can not choose which teachings to tell others about and which not to.

 

[Badran]

why he did no answer the question at all , this discusssion is about what the quran says , not waht you say

Really? the Quran mentions nothing about death. No punishment at all. So i am telling you what the Quran says. It says that there should be no compulsion in religion.

so let me get this straight are you saying islm does not teach that if a person turnes his back he will be killed , so waht does it teach about leaVING ISLAM

Nothing, if you leave Islam thats up to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Really? the Quran mentions nothing about death. No punishment at all. So i am telling you what the Quran says. It says that there should be no compulsion in religion.

How do some Muslims come to believe that conversion warrants death?