AndromedaRXJ
Active Member
Seems like a contradiction.
That's the same thing as believing with certainty.
You still haven't pointed out this evidence.
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The Science of Ghosts
- Thread starter Mycroft
- Start date
Seems like a contradiction.
That's the same thing as believing with certainty.
You still haven't pointed out this evidence.
outhouse
Atheistically
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Reading your posts leading up to this, it seems that you may like to claim these things because it puts you in the status of being a member of some esoteric "club". Like in the movies, when a select group of people are the only ones "in the know" about some alternate version of reality that's teeming with activity all around us - it's just that most people are "blind" to it. I'll admit it makes for awesome fiction - but that's as far as I've ever seen it go.
It's fine that you don't care that there are those of us who don't believe. Just realize that the same sentiment will be cast right back at you - there are those of us who couldn't give two craps that you do believe. So don't go on about things as if you're owed some sort of respect for the things you really only "believe" in.
Way to cut and paste... You were missing the point. I didn't ask you to believe anything, or anyone else for that matter. I merely said there are certain amounts of truth in occurrences and those can be investigated by oneself. However, you won't because you believe they are not there. That doesn't make it so. That was the point you missed.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Ultimately, whatever you see as the "truth in occurrences" doesn't "make it so" any more than my not seeing it makes its non-existence "the truth". That's what I am trying to tell you.
In the end, we've had literal millennia of people claiming they have seen "X" or "Y". In rare circumstances, there have been proofs to what was seen - i.e. somebody actually caught one, was able to study one, etc. Like the "Kraken" - which ended up being attributed to sightings of the physically real giant squid. Again: GIANT SQUID - not "The Kraken". Point being - more often than not, even hundreds of sightings of a supernatural or mythical creature have not been proven to have actually been of a supernatural or mythical/magical nature - EVER. Which points to something altogether even more unsettling than the things themselves - that even seeing something doesn't necessarily make it "real" in that sense. This is why eye-witness accounts in this realm aren't really taken all that seriously - because never has an eye-witness account of a supernatural occurrence ever led to the discovery of physical evidence of the supernatural subject supposedly being viewed. Long story short - in the vast majority of cases people didn't see what they thought they saw. You think I don't wish there were all sorts of fanciful creatures running all over the place? Or magic to be harnessed and played around with? Of course I do! Who doesn't?!
What you "saw" was most likely a "spirit" but I can assure you that it was not the spirit of a dead former human. The only spirits that exist are either good spirits (angels) or bad ones sometimes pretending to be good. (demons). How would you know?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I know this is a debate forum
But do you give others the benefit of the doubt that what they say is true even though you disagree?
outhouse
Atheistically
Yes how would YOU know??? you are the one doing a lot of describing here, how do you know?
The bible is not a credible book outside theology.
I know this is a debate forum
Of course I can allow you to believe whatever you wish, but I don't have to leave you in a delusion if I can tell you the truth about something, as it is told in what I believe is the word of our Creator. He is your Creator too, but even if you don't believe in him, it doesn't make his words untrue. He says there are no spirits who were former humans. God created spirits to BE spirits.
We will all know the truth in due time. If you are wrong and are being deceived, would you want to know? If it will result in a bad outcome for you...is ignorance bliss? Should I remain silent or do I owe you the truth as I understand it? There is no law that says you have to accept it, but I have fulfilled my obligation to you...no?
Don't believe it then...that is your choice. You are free to choose your own destiny. It's got nothing to do with me....but you can't say you weren't told either.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The question did not ask "can you allow me"; anyone can do that.
This is asking, can you give me the benefit of the doubt (and others) that what they say is true and disagree? You can say no, if you cannot do this. If you can, please try. More than empathy.
Can I literally turn this around, if I may?
Read this not with a critical eye but as if you were literally me reading this. I know we have different life experiences; and, based on our past conversations, this may hit a small nerve.
Of course, I (me) can allow you to believe whatever you wish, but I don't have to leave you in delusion if I can tell you the truth about something, as it is told in what I believe from the spirits and our ancestors. Our ancestors and the spirits are your ancestors and spirits to (for real; not just making a point), even if you dont believe in them. It doesnt make their presence and their bloodline to ours untrue. Spirits are former humans. They are our family. We started from them.
We will all know the truth in due time. If you (you) are wrong and you are being deceived would you (you) want to know? If it will result in a bad outcome for you...is ignorance bliss? (If not knowing your ancestors and the spirits are not important to you, cant you see how you are ignorant? Not knowing your own origin. Is ignorance bliss?) Should I remain silent or do I owe you the truth as I understand it? There is no law that says you have to accept it, but I fulfilled my obligation to you...no?
Read this not with a critical eye but as if you were literally me reading this. I know we have different life experiences; and, based on our past conversations, this may hit a small nerve.
That is okay.
My point is of course you have the obligation to share your truth and warn us about danger that is in your belief. It (Im being honest here) It is a psychological game. Tell the person he is in danger. That person starts really thinking about it and taking in what you say even though its against his morals. Then he thinks "oh my gosh! Im in danger!" and he turns to Christ.
Personally, that is a bad way to have someone to turn to christ by sharing what will happen to him if he does not. Another pet peeve is sharing what you believe is truth is truth for all. Christianity and probably a few other religions I dont know of are the only religions that do this. From the Romans to the Protestants to splats of people sharing their truth. Not THE truth.
What is the Truth?
Is it god? No. Not all people even heard of god.
Truth is universal.
Is it our ancestors? No. Not all people know who their ancestors are.
(I believe it is; what I believe is not universal)
Truth is universal
Is it The Buddha Dharma? I believe so. Everything comes from the mind--our spirituality included. Not everyone believes this others dont even know.
Truth is universal.
The Creator by definition is supposed to exist before creation. Its logical. Creator creates. As a religious belief or something that defines our reality, it is not universal truth.
We. Do. Not. Know.
As long as we think we know, then half the religious will be (honestly speaking) like yourself sharing the word and warning people of doom that only you see.
This is asking, can you give me the benefit of the doubt (and others) that what they say is true and disagree? You can say no, if you cannot do this. If you can, please try. More than empathy.
Of course I can allow you to believe whatever you wish, but I don't have to leave you in a delusion if I can tell you the truth about something, as it is told in what I believe is the word of our Creator. He is your Creator too, but even if you don't believe in him, it doesn't make his words untrue. He says there are no spirits who were former humans. God created spirits to BE spirits.
We will all know the truth in due time. If you are wrong and are being deceived, would you want to know? If it will result in a bad outcome for you...is ignorance bliss? Should I remain silent or do I owe you the truth as I understand it? There is no law that says you have to accept it, but I have fulfilled my obligation to you...no?
Can I literally turn this around, if I may?
Read this not with a critical eye but as if you were literally me reading this. I know we have different life experiences; and, based on our past conversations, this may hit a small nerve.Of course, I (me) can allow you to believe whatever you wish, but I don't have to leave you in delusion if I can tell you the truth about something, as it is told in what I believe from the spirits and our ancestors. Our ancestors and the spirits are your ancestors and spirits to (for real; not just making a point), even if you dont believe in them. It doesnt make their presence and their bloodline to ours untrue. Spirits are former humans. They are our family. We started from them.
We will all know the truth in due time. If you are wrong and are being deceived, would you want to know? If it will result in a bad outcome for you...is ignorance bliss? Should I remain silent or do I owe you the truth as I understand it? There is no law that says you have to accept it, but I have fulfilled my obligation to you...no?
We will all know the truth in due time. If you (you) are wrong and you are being deceived would you (you) want to know? If it will result in a bad outcome for you...is ignorance bliss? (If not knowing your ancestors and the spirits are not important to you, cant you see how you are ignorant? Not knowing your own origin. Is ignorance bliss?) Should I remain silent or do I owe you the truth as I understand it? There is no law that says you have to accept it, but I fulfilled my obligation to you...no?
Read this not with a critical eye but as if you were literally me reading this. I know we have different life experiences; and, based on our past conversations, this may hit a small nerve.That is okay.
My point is of course you have the obligation to share your truth and warn us about danger that is in your belief. It (Im being honest here) It is a psychological game. Tell the person he is in danger. That person starts really thinking about it and taking in what you say even though its against his morals. Then he thinks "oh my gosh! Im in danger!" and he turns to Christ.
Personally, that is a bad way to have someone to turn to christ by sharing what will happen to him if he does not. Another pet peeve is sharing what you believe is truth is truth for all. Christianity and probably a few other religions I dont know of are the only religions that do this. From the Romans to the Protestants to splats of people sharing their truth. Not THE truth.
What is the Truth?
Is it god? No. Not all people even heard of god.
Truth is universal.
Is it our ancestors? No. Not all people know who their ancestors are.
(I believe it is; what I believe is not universal)
Truth is universal
Is it The Buddha Dharma? I believe so. Everything comes from the mind--our spirituality included. Not everyone believes this others dont even know.
Truth is universal.
The Creator by definition is supposed to exist before creation. Its logical. Creator creates. As a religious belief or something that defines our reality, it is not universal truth.
We. Do. Not. Know.
As long as we think we know, then half the religious will be (honestly speaking) like yourself sharing the word and warning people of doom that only you see.
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outhouse
Atheistically
Don't believe it then...that is your choice. You are free to choose your own destiny. It's got nothing to do with me....but you can't say you weren't told either.
Not one word in your reply shows how you credibly know YOUR definition for ghost are correct.
Claiming the bible is accurate is not credible either.
In no way does belief in your text factually effect my destiny.
And you weak threat is noted.
Is a warning a threat?
I guess that all depends on how you take it. Some people appreciate a warning, whilst others just treat it like an intrusion on their privacy......whatever.You just have to hope I am wrong because if you are wrong, I won't I won't know much about it.
@ Carlita.
No one can tell you how to live or how to worship. Your own heart will lead you to where you should be, Everyone will be where they should be on judgment day...that is the whole point of free will. We carve out our own destiny by what we choose in our own hearts to believe.
But just as Noah warned the people of his day about what was about to take place, with not one person taking his warning seriously, so we too do not expect many people to respond. That doesn't mean we don't have to issue the warning. If we didn't have to preach, then Jesus would not have told us to do so. No one's blood is on my hands. (Ezek 3:19, 20)
No one can tell you how to live or how to worship. Your own heart will lead you to where you should be, Everyone will be where they should be on judgment day...that is the whole point of free will. We carve out our own destiny by what we choose in our own hearts to believe.
But just as Noah warned the people of his day about what was about to take place, with not one person taking his warning seriously, so we too do not expect many people to respond. That doesn't mean we don't have to issue the warning. If we didn't have to preach, then Jesus would not have told us to do so. No one's blood is on my hands. (Ezek 3:19, 20)
outhouse
Atheistically
I know, I do not have to "hope" when it comes to mythology I have studied in depth.
Noah did no such thing, he has no historicity as ever existing.
Some unknown author wrote that, and it has so many authors as it has been redacted for centuries, we cannot tell you how many different people were involved there were so many.
Of course you don't. How could you possibly believe in something you can't see or prove by human scientific methods....as if anything superior to humans can't exist.
You know that for a fact do you?
I have his genealogy in the Bible and Jesus spoke about him. He is 9th in line from Adam. (Matt 24:37-39; Luke 3:36)
That will do me.
But if you are sure that he couldn't possibly exist.....well then you have nothing to worry about...do you?
outhouse
Atheistically
Unlike many, with education I actually do Know, and you ARE NOT in a position to tell me any different.
No you do not have anything credible. Theology and mythology is not always accurate.
No he did not. Fact is, we don't know what jesus may have said as ALL of the NT was written by people who never met or heard him.
Not one eyewitness wrote a word about him
ONLY people who did not know him
I doubt you even know his REAL first name he used, let alone anything credible about the person.
Adam never existed either he FACTUALLY has no historicity as ever existing outside theology
Yes, factually. We know exactly how Noahs and Adams mythology was created in full.
Sorry your apologetic rhetoric is not credible when facing credible academia.
outhouse
Atheistically
NO
The question is HOW CAN you believe in things not there to most of the world, that exist only in literature by all credible standards, and exist in human emotions based SOLELY on where they were born. and who raised them.
Mythology has never been superior to humans.
I guess you have to experience God to know he's there.
I could never "prove" that to anyone who hasn't had the experience themselves.