The Shabbat Thread

[Harel13]

I recommend it.

For me or for people in general?

 

[pearl]

Note 2: This is the Q&A section. Let's all keep our heads and try not to bash each other.

From my experience on the nursing staff at an Orthodox nursing home I remember the expression 'to make Shabbat' as women visitors would leave to be home in time.
For the residents all the laws mentioned applied. More than anything else I admire that so much of the Sabbath obligation is in the home as contrasted to most other religious obligations are met in the public service and then off to shopping etc. I also understood that the study of Scripture was important part. The Orthodox living in my neighborhood do so to be within walking distance of the synagogue as driving is not allowed or the restriction on how far one can carry.

 

[pearl]

A great Jewish thinker, Abraham Joshua Heschel, wrote a great book on the sabbath and all of it's implications for Jews. I recommend it.

Would that be 'God in Search of Man?

 

[shmogie]

I wasn't pointing any fingers.

That's what you think. We believe that these "nit-picking definitions" were given by God at Mount Sinai.
Out of all of these hundreds of Shabbat-laws there are only a small group of laws that are called "shvut" (from the same root of Shabbat, שבת), which were added prohibitions by the sages to keep people from coming close to transgressing one of God's laws of the Shabbat. For example: One cannot swim on Shabbat. But originally, one could row a boat on Shabbat. But the sages realized that in a boat situation, a person might think that it would be alright to swim as well. So they added the prohibition of rowing a boat.

But that's the problem of common sense: It's fallible. So the core of the Shabbat laws are infallible concepts given by God who knows all. Moreover, if every law came from the common sense of man, it could be easily changed, because common sense and human morality has changed over history. Indeed, we find that Christians don't keep Shabbat because they think it's fallible man-made nonsense. And that's actually fine. Shabbat was given to the Jewish nation, not to the gentiles. What's not fine is thinking it's man-made nonsense, which it's not.

Is that bad? Jewish spiritual leaders need to know more than correct meditative positions and what mantras will help a person reach a spiritual high. The Torah is chock-full of legal laws, and the sages need to know how everything works in order to pass on the law correctly.

I'm not sure I understand the question, but every thing in the world, through every era, has to be broken up to its core in order to understand whether or not it's okay for a Jew to do, not just in the field of Shabbat but in every field.
So for example, as I wrote to @Eddi, activating a computer in order to use the internet comes with lighting a spark which is part of the prohibition of lighting a fire. If you must know, the rabbis at the time when electricity started coming into use, went and asked experts in the field how it works, and by that determined if it was allowed or not. Every invention today is dissected by the rabbis together with field-experts in order to determine if it's "kosher" for Jews.
Just as every chemical in the world can be broken down to its core elements, so do Jews break everything down to its core to determine if it's proper to use/do.

Part of it, yes. Just because it was a "mere few", doesn't make it okay.

Not every single medical procedure isn't allowed on Shabbat. We have rules for everything. As a kid, I once crashed into a metal bench on Shabbat. No one thought I should stay there on the sidewalk with a literal bloody dent in my head until Shabbat was over. That never occurred to anyone. Why? Because not everything is illegal, as gentiles sometimes portray Judaism. So I went to a local clinic and got bandaged up (my head is fine today, thankfully).

God's.

I belonged for many years to a Christian denomination that kept the sabbath, religiously .(excuse the pun)

So as a gentile Christian, I was part of the hoop jumping you describe here.

It seems to me that the sabbath was given as a day of rest for people who worked hard 6 days per week. It was a gift given to protect the people, regardless of whether they wanted to keep working.

However, in the denomination to which I belonged, and in what you have written, the emphasis was on running an obstacle course of rules to make God accept you. It wasn't a day to rest and recharge, it became encumbered with petty rules and tests, an attempt to give something to God, rather than as a gift from Him.

I am quite happy that I realized that Christians have no need to keep the sabbath, it was part of your covenant with God, not our Covenant.

In the most respectful mindset, I for the life of me cannot understand why God would be concerned if on a hot saturday you jumped into a pool. Does He not know your heart?.

As Paul says, if you feel you must, you must.

I thank God I don't.

 

[shmogie]

Would that be 'God in Search of Man?

Yes

 

[shmogie]

For me or for people in general?

Jewish folk, and there is much that can be valuable for Christians in gaining a clearer understanding of God, and His love for all of us.

 

[rosends]

One thing which I find people confused by is the myriad rules. Jews don't necessarily notice that there are an excess of rules because as a Jew, every day is rife with rules. So, some of the rules change depending on the day, but that's an effect of life and the religion as a whole. As a child, because I wasn't really aware of the rest of the rules, the Sabbath strictures seemed limiting. Now, as an adult, I barely notice them. Ig uess I could say the same about driving.

Before I drove, I was hyper aware of all the limitations on driving. But I drive every day now, and I follow the rules because that's just engrained into my psyche now.

As to the question of "why" I guess a similar analogy might suffice. I live in a society that has rules which control my life. I am told how I have to dress when I leave the house, where I can go, and when, and how I have to behave around other people. I am not allowed to steal food from others. I can't make a right turn on red. Nudism is not allowed and killing? Right out.

Societies have rules. Do I really think anyone cares if I run a red light in the middle of the night? Does it matter? The rule is to stop on red. If I am told not to swim on the sabbath, do I wonder whether "God cares"? Would that matter? So, sure, I think God cares (in some sense) but in the absence of certainty that he cares, I still have the rule.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

For @Deeje and whoever else may be interested in learning more about the Jewish concept of the Sabbath, or as we like to call it: Shabbat or Shabbos, here's a thread where you can ask your questions and we Jews will do our best to answer them.

I would appreciate if other RF Jews would also put in their two cents.

Note 1: Today is Friday, which means that in a number of hours (around sunset), I and other Shabbat keepers will be unavailable to answer questions.

Note 2: This is the Q&A section. Let's all keep our heads and try not to bash each other.

Thank you for this thread.
I am very interested in the topic, and in understanding more of the Tanakh.

Can you give me some scripture please? Regarding the following and anything else you would consider helpful. (I like scripture)
Why do you do what you do?
Why does God requires it?
What are the penalties, from God, if one deviates? If any.
What are some of the most useful things to do during the Shabbat?

I believe one who follows God should follow his word. That’s why I like seeing scripture and doing my best to understand it, along with help from those far more knowledgeable than me. Thanks again for this thread.

 

[pearl]

Yes

Love his expression 'Faith in God is a response to God's question ;where ART Thou'
We must not equate the act of faith with its expression. The expression of faith is an affirmation of truth, a definite judgement, a conviction, while faith itself is an event, some that happens rather than something that is stored away, a moment in which the soul of man communes with the glory of God.

 

[Fool]

For @Deeje and whoever else may be interested in learning more about the Jewish concept of the Sabbath, or as we like to call it: Shabbat or Shabbos, here's a thread where you can ask your questions and we Jews will do our best to answer them.

I would appreciate if other RF Jews would also put in their two cents.

Note 1: Today is Friday, which means that in a number of hours (around sunset), I and other Shabbat keepers will be unavailable to answer questions.

Note 2: This is the Q&A section. Let's all keep our heads and try not to bash each other.

what is the purpose of shabbat? isn't any effort on the part of the person some type of work? sitting? standing? moving around? eating? bathing?

 

[dybmh]

@Harel13 , great thread topic. Thanks for posting it.

@Deeje, Regarding common sense. I don't think that common sense is a useful metric for whether or not Halacha is valid per Numbers 15:39. However, I also think that Deuteronomy 6:5 prescribes an intellectual approach to Jewish religious practice included in "the whole soul and the whole might." Because of this, I find value in attempting to understand the law ( aka finding common sense in it ); but, they shouldn't be abandoned if understanding is not obtained.

One way of finding common sense in many of the laws of Shabbos is to see it as a day of non-interference. Anything that is in process before Shabbos, remains in process. Anything that is at rest, remains at rest.

@Gerry , You asked some very very good questions. For Scriptural basis of Shabbos, the idea is presented in a few places. I always remember ( no pun intended ) these two: Exodus 20:8 and Deteronomy 5:12. These two verses together instruct to remember **and** guard Shabbos. Remember is the word "Zachohr" in Hebrew in Exodus 20:8, and Guard is "Shohmer" in Deuteronomy 5:12.

From these two verses, it makes sense to me that there are many many laws and customs involved in Shabbos for Jewish people. It's because the commandment ( the mitzvah ) is to guard and remember it. That includes a lot.

Another important section of verses regarding Shabbos is Exodus 16:23-30. This is part of the famous story about the Mannah in the desert. The people were instructed to stop gathering and a double portion would be given on the sixth day for use on the seventh day.

The last piece off the puzzle, I think, comes from the word Shabbos itself which means to rest, to cease, to desist. Here's its first mention in The Torah, Genesis 2:2:

The word Shabbbos is also related to the word for "to dwell" ( YahShav in Hebrew ). It's a super common word occurring over 1000 times. The example I always remember of YahShav is from Psalm 91, it's the first word. But it's also in the first Psalm first verse.

Psalm 91:1

Psalm 1:1

So, from scripture the concept of the commandments for Shabbos are: remembering and guarding a day of rest where a double portion of sustenance is delivered by God to the Jewish people.

@Gerry, in addition to scripture sources, you asked:

What are the penalties, from God, if one deviates? If any.

This becomes complicated and somewhat controversial.

In theory, each commandment operates on a supernatural dimension, not on a material dimension. If a Jewish person transgresses a commandment they aren't going to be struck by lightning, or get sick, or anything like that. But, what I've been told, is that the effect is on the individual's soul and on the soul of the Jewish community often referred to as The Shechinah.

For the individual's soul, a transgression ( any of them ) desensitizes it ( the soul ) and makes it more difficult for it ( the soul ) to identify, assimilate, and respond to legitimate, real, spiritual/supernatural phenomena. I imagine it in a similar manner as a callous on someone's finger. Using this analogy, the transgression covers over and desensitizes the soul like a callous would accumulate, cover over, and make a person's finger dull. Like the finger of someone who plays guitar, for example...

For the community, the effect of a transgression is distance. The transgression repels ( but doesn't sever ) the supernatural community of souls that connects each Jewish person to each other and to God. The analogy i like is like a grape vine. Each individual soul is like a grape on a grape vine. The Shechinah or community-soul is like the grape vine. Each grape has its own connection to the grape vine, the grape vine is connected to earth,water, sunshine ( God ). When the Shechina is repelled from an individual's soul, it's as if the grape vine is stretched, becomes thin, and constricted. The divine flow ( water and nutrients in this analogy ) are not made as readily available to the soul ( the grape ). Without this, the soul shrivels and doesn't thrive like a grape dying on the vine.

Each transgression, as I understand them, operates in this same general manner.

 

[rosends]

what is the purpose of shabbat? isn't any effort on the part of the person some type of work? sitting? standing? moving around? eating? bathing?

Shabbat has a number of purposes -- primarily, we emulate God, who "rested" after the process of creation. We define that "rest" though, in comparison to particular creative acts and the extensions of those acts. The English word, "work" creates the wrong impression (as does "effort").

 

[Cooky]

For @Deeje and whoever else may be interested in learning more about the Jewish concept of the Sabbath, or as we like to call it: Shabbat or Shabbos, here's a thread where you can ask your questions and we Jews will do our best to answer them.

I would appreciate if other RF Jews would also put in their two cents.

Note 1: Today is Friday, which means that in a number of hours (around sunset), I and other Shabbat keepers will be unavailable to answer questions.

Note 2: This is the Q&A section. Let's all keep our heads and try not to bash each other.

Thanks to you, and the Jewish community of RF for teaching us this.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Can you tell us about the notion found in Jewish literature that the creation week is a type of the history of the world. (e.g,. b. Sanhedrin 97a)

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

With all the changes that have taken place in calendars over yje centuries, are you confident that Saturday is truly the seventh day of the week? Can you trace it all the way back to the beginning? Maybe a day or more got overlooked at some point.

 

[metis]

With all the changes that have taken place in calendars over yje centuries, are you confident that Saturday is truly the seventh day of the week? Can you trace it all the way back to the beginning? Maybe a day or more got overlooked at some point.

All one had to do was to count to 7, and since this was embedded into Jewish custom for roughly 3000 years, we can still be sure that the 7th day (Shabbat) was Friday evening sundown to Saturday evening sundown.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

For @Deeje and whoever else may be interested in learning more about the Jewish concept of the Sabbath, or as we like to call it: Shabbat or Shabbos, here's a thread where you can ask your questions and we Jews will do our best to answer them.

I would appreciate if other RF Jews would also put in their two cents.

Note 1: Today is Friday, which means that in a number of hours (around sunset), I and other Shabbat keepers will be unavailable to answer questions.

Note 2: This is the Q&A section. Let's all keep our heads and try not to bash each other.

Don't forget to cut the electrical service to your home...
you don't want all those power company employees "working" for you, while you "rest"'
Or do you ?

 

[Wandering Monk]

With all the changes that have taken place in calendars over yje centuries, are you confident that Saturday is truly the seventh day of the week? Can you trace it all the way back to the beginning? Maybe a day or more got overlooked at some point.

So, EVERY Jew, EVERYWHERE in the world SIMULTANEOUSLY FORGOT which day was the Sabbath?

 

[Rival]

Don't forget to cut the electrical service to your home...
you don't want all those power company employees "working" for you, while you "rest"'
Or do you ?

No, and some Jews do take issue with this and do what they can to mitigate it such as using gas to cook with instead of electric.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Don't forget to cut the electrical service to your home...
you don't want all those power company employees "working" for you, while you "rest"'
Or do you ?

Ever heard of a kosher stove?

BTW, preservation and saving of a life take precedence over the Sabbath restrictions.