The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[Parsimony]

In my opinion, the eternal punishment you're saying is a part of judgement. The same as good kid gets a reward and naughty kid gets a slap in the face. The human judgement is flawed and we can't deny that. So that's why it is needed for god to deliver judgement to the bad guy. Unless you want to see a rapist or anything escaped human's law and live happily with you in heaven

Must punishment be eternal in order to be just? Why or why not?

 

[Ingledsva]

Shall we move to conclusion and say....eternal suffering is possible?


ING -- NO, it isn't possible.


The state of mind might be the focus.
If you can't get out of your body now.....what makes you think you will when you're dead?


ING -- I am not a Christian. I am just translating the texts, and discussing the content. I don't think anyone is going to get out of their body after death.


And the grave becomes the total of your existence....to dream and not wake up.


ING -- What would be the purpose of the dead dreaming?


But some say....the dead know not....
Would that be in terms of awareness?

If we cease to think and dream.....we truly are dead....as if never born.

Indeed! total annihilation, as if never existing is how I look at the texts. There is no reason for sentient dead, or torture in this scenario. It is saying the penalty for wrongdoers is true death, and for the believers, the prize is eternal life with God.


The Hell, or torture forever idea, is not in Tanakh, nor has Jesus espoused it. It came about later, after contact with other cultures and religions.



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[dgirl1986]

I wonder what the conclusion would be if you did a psych evaluation of the idea of god and everything he says in the bible.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I have always proposed that either God sends everyone, or everyone into paradise or sends everyone into hell so they can serve their due punishments before they obtain entry into eternal bliss. No exceptions made of course.

Tis only fair I say but of course many religions will promote the "Us VS Them" attitude and wish to make the other side look inferior and malicious. Funny how these old Gods have such primitive homo-sapiens behavior in relation to a culture

 

[Thief]

Indeed! total annihilation, as if never existing is how I look at the texts. There is no reason for sentient dead, or torture in this scenario. It is saying the penalty for wrongdoers is true death, and for the believers, the prize is eternal life with God.


The Hell, or torture forever idea, is not in Tanakh, nor has Jesus espoused it. It came about later, after contact with other cultures and religions.



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I think there is life after death.
Therefore...the only contenmtent possible is to be with your own 'kind'.

Or maybe THAT would be the definition of hell!

 

[Muffled]

The Christian god reminds me of an abusive boyfriend.
"Baby, you know I'm only torturing you because I love you."

An excellent analogy!

I believe the analogy is false in many ways. Usually boyfriends say it is love but it is actually ego. With God I believe it actually is love.

 

[Muffled]

Just replace "words" with "a firey pit of unending torment and anguish," and you've hit the nail on the head.

I don't believe I ought to be beat up for believeing the right thing but those going to hell will deserve it. A person being abused doesn't deserve the abuse but a person being punished by being put in jail does deserve to be punished.

 

[Muffled]

Must punishment be eternal in order to be just? Why or why not?

I believe the crime may be against time and therefore an eternity seems like a just punishment to me. For instance I may have a month to buy a ticket to see a rock group together on their last tour and never get the tickets, so my punishment is to never see that rock group. My crime was in not taking an opportunity while their was time to do so and the punishment fits.

 

[Quirkybird]

I believe the analogy is false in many ways. Usually boyfriends say it is love but it is actually ego. With God I believe it actually is love.

Only a psychopath could sentence even the worst person on earth to hell for all eternity, not a god of 'love'!

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I believe the analogy is false in many ways. Usually boyfriends say it is love but it is actually ego. With God I believe it actually is love.

Bow down and worship me or i'll torture you... Sounds kind of like ego to me.:sarcastic

 

[Quirkybird]

Bow down and worship me or i'll torture you... Sounds kind of like ego to me.:sarcastic

It sounds like an entity with serious psychiatric problems!

 

[Bird123]

I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.

Yes, how can they ever discover God when they hold onto such petty things as hate, control,intimidation,ruling,threatening and so many other petty things? Perhaps, they do not fully understand what all these petty things really are because they choose them. In time, they will come to see God can not be that way. When our actions return to us, the picture and truth clear.

For those of us who must watch others choosing the lessons we have clearly learned, we must have patience and point them in the right direction with a heavy dose of Unconditional Love and Kindness for their choices carry a bumpy road for them.

 

[Quirkybird]

Yes, how can they ever discover God when they hold onto such petty things as hate, control,intimidation,ruling,threatening and so many other petty things? Perhaps, they do not fully understand what all these petty things really are because they choose them. In time, they will come to see God can not be that way. When our actions return to us, the picture and truth clear.

For those of us who must watch others choosing the lessons we have clearly learned, we must have patience and point them in the right direction with a heavy dose of Unconditional Love and Kindness for their choices carry a bumpy road for them.

The deity described in the Bible is all of the nasty things you mentioned!

 

[ametist]

When intellectually approached the statement of existence of hell is one of core question generators of some religion. That is why it serves as a great tool to build stronger desire to 'know' god which is not acquired as an intellectual outcome in ultimate form. On the other hand, god doesnt lie about its truth so there is hell and it isnt expected human to love it .. but to fear from it. Yet fear can not exist without love. Reason of fear when hell is concerned is self love. Those who fear hell explains self love or tends to build enough desire for its explanation. This is the general approach in study arena for individual.
Judgement day and hell issue requires another long explanation and is different.

 

[Thief]

The deity described in the Bible is all of the nasty things you mentioned!

So...let's say someone you care for is bound and determined to go about in a manner that cannot support his spirit.....
and when he dies the spirit he could have been dies with his chemistry.

Would you be willing to say anything?....do anything?....
even if it seems cruel?

If the nature of the animal seems to be drawn to fail....
would isolation and genetic manipulation seem harsh?
Nature as intended to be set aside?
Intervention required?

What if to save the species the bulk of the living must die?
Would a flood be out of the question?

Law delivered to the extreme and execution a possible need?
or allowed the unseemly to run as they please?

If discipline is needed in this world .....
how much greater the discipline in the next?

I saw it written somewhere....
'fear not whosoever would harm the flesh....but rather He who can rend the soul.'

 

[Quirkybird]

The point I am making is that if the deity is as portrayed in the Bible, it has no moral high ground whatsoever as it is worse than any human ever, and has no right to judge us!!

 

[Ingledsva]

When intellectually approached the statement of existence of hell is one of core question generators of some religion. That is why it serves as a great tool to build stronger desire to 'know' god which is not acquired as an intellectual outcome in ultimate form. On the other hand, god doesnt lie about its truth so there is hell and it isnt expected human to love it .. but to fear from it. Yet fear can not exist without love. Reason of fear when hell is concerned is self love. Those who fear hell explains self love or tends to build enough desire for its explanation. This is the general approach in study arena for individual.
Judgement day and hell issue requires another long explanation and is different.

Well, first, we don't have the word of God, we have the words of humans.


However where are you finding God making Hell statements in your Bible?





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[ametist]

Well, first, we don't have the word of God, we have the words of humans.


However where are you finding God making Hell statements in your Bible?





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Who is that 'we' who dont have the word of god?

 

[Ingledsva]

The deity described in the Bible is all of the nasty things you mentioned!

So...let's say someone you care for is bound and determined to go about in a manner that cannot support his spirit.....
and when he dies the spirit he could have been dies with his chemistry.

Would you be willing to say anything?....do anything?....
even if it seems cruel?


ING -- Talk to them, sure. Do anything to them? NO!


If the nature of the animal seems to be drawn to fail....
would isolation and genetic manipulation seem harsh?
Nature as intended to be set aside?
Intervention required?


ING -- We are talking humans as a whole here - and supposed free will. Humans naturally come up with their own codes and laws to be able to live in groups. So NO, a "superior" force, or group, does NOT have the right to manipulate and murder.


What if to save the species the bulk of the living must die?
Would a flood be out of the question?


ING -- A flood murders the innocent along with the "supposed" guilty. So NO flood!


Law delivered to the extreme and execution a possible need?
or allowed the unseemly to run as they please?


ING -- Again NO! We have laws to take care of what we consider to be "extreme" lawlessness. With the right to defend your actions, and the punishment only for the actual guilty.


If discipline is needed in this world .....
how much greater the discipline in the next?


ING -- You do not know that there is a next world. You perhaps BELEVE there is one. But we are discussing the awful things the Bible says YHVH does. Murder of the innocent, etc.



I saw it written somewhere....
'fear not whosoever would harm the flesh....but rather He who can rend the soul.'

Which was the idea used behind the torture and murder of a lot of innocent people, by the religions of Abraham. For instance during the Inquisition infants were tossed into kettles that turned over fires (the turning kept them tortured longer.) This was done in front of accused parents. Or witch dunking, if you died you were innocent, etc.


To me, these Abrahamic ideas are like saying you think being gay is against God, and California has gays, so lets MURDER everyone in California - babies and all, - and this is somehow right and just! BULL!



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[Ingledsva]

Who is that 'we' who dont have the word of god?

Everyone on the Earth. However you said God doesn't lie about Hell - so the Abrahamic God and people.


There is no proof of any God. People choose to believe there are Gods.



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