Heneni
Miss Independent
Interesting...black matter.....with a whole lot of mass....hmmmm...
Question: If light goes into a black hole...what type of matter does it turn into?
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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.
- Thread starter mickiel
- Start date
Interesting...black matter.....with a whole lot of mass....hmmmm...
Question: If light goes into a black hole...what type of matter does it turn into?
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
If the earth were hell, then the bible would refer to it as the earth. Furthermore, the earth lacks basic features of hell as described in the bible: fire and eternal suffering. Therefore earth is NOT hell.
If you believe in a different version of hell, that's fine, but that's not the topic we've been discussing. My argument has been, from the beginning, against the Christian version of hell.
So let's not let pseudoscientific speculation about black holes distract us from the topic at hand.
If you believe in a different version of hell, that's fine, but that's not the topic we've been discussing. My argument has been, from the beginning, against the Christian version of hell.
So let's not let pseudoscientific speculation about black holes distract us from the topic at hand.
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Darkwater
Well-Known Member
Well light is but darkness illumonated,similarly darkness is light invisible or imperceivable.
As a child of shadow I was encouraged to seek out the station,in love.The station turned out to be a big black hole in constallation Virgo,lots of love their just very intense...You need love to mandala in & be secure in your mandala to get out again,to defeat gravity.....
Personal mandala/flower of life/salfreggio resonations/personal alchemy/Da Vinci Man/divine proportions/golden mean..you must open your heart before you let go & let the great love attract you.
What is the difference between light & dark?
What is the difference between light & heavy?
What is the difference between light & hard?
mickiel
Well-Known Member
The concept of eternal hell punishing is sick, God willnot make a momument of punishing that would last forever. Why imortalize suffering? Why give eternity to Misery? Why does your belief give eternity to sickness and shame? Why does religion insult the integrity of God ?
Moreso, why has this belief popped its way into your religion and become a major doctrine? If this nonsense has placed its roots into your belief, what other nonsense has manipulated its way into your doctrines? How many more little bugs have grown into giant monsters?
Peace.
Moreso, why has this belief popped its way into your religion and become a major doctrine? If this nonsense has placed its roots into your belief, what other nonsense has manipulated its way into your doctrines? How many more little bugs have grown into giant monsters?
Peace.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
I don't know, you tell me. I don't believe in god; you do. Furthermore, if you believe in the bible, you must believe in eternal suffering. You either believe in eternal suffering, or you do not believe in the Christian god.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
I believe in the bible, but not eternal suffering, and do not equate the two. I do not believe in the christian God, in no manner or any kind of way. I do not believe that any group, christian or whomever, represents God. Also it does not matter to me who does not believe, or why they do not.
It does not matter to God either. When you hold all power in your hands, why should it matter to you who believes it or not? This truth needs to be understood about God. It matters to humans who believes and why, but God is not human. He never has been human, or weak. Nor is he confused about his position. He is the God. We are the creations. We are confused, and we continually express that confusion.
God is not " The christian God." He is not the symbol of any human group by his endorsement. People just usurp that unto themselves, and claim God for themselves, just as conversely, those who disclaim God, do so on their own violition, they disarm the connection by their own thoughts. Not knowing that it is God who truly has them in the area of unbelief.
People do not believe, because they are not supposed to now believe. People are gay, because they are supposed to be gay. people believe, because its their time to believe. Whatever has occured, is because it is the time and place that God wanted it to occur.
There is no other possible solution.
That I accept.
Peace.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Mickiel, the bible clearly describes eternal suffering inflicted by god. If you believe the bible, you believe in eternal suffering. If you do not believe in eternal suffering, you do not believe what the bible says. This is a situation where you simply can't have your cake and eat it too.
The rest of what you have said is just distraction from the glaring inconsistency in your beliefs.
The rest of what you have said is just distraction from the glaring inconsistency in your beliefs.
mickiel
Well-Known Member
Oh I believe the bible, I just don't believe in how you are reading it. Its people like you that I disagree with, not the bible. You take unto yourself the interpitation of it, and I don't blame you, I do that myself. I have my own way of viewing it, and it simply does not match yours. So I simply am in disagreement with your interpitation, not the bible.
Human salvation, or human suffering, is not in the hands of your interpitation of things, if it was, many would be either godless, or doomed.
Neither of which I subscribe too.
There is nothing that your views offer to me, or to the future of humanity.
And the bible is all about the future of humanity. And I feel no need to convince you, or any doomsayer of this.
Peace.
AK4
Well-Known Member
Most people believe in a bad translation of the bible. The original Words of God to do not even indicate a eternity of torture.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
I have already argued for the correctness of my interpretation. Do you have a refutation of my arguments or are you just comfortable with holding an inaccurate interpretation that is contrary to the facts?
...except the truth, and incentive to enjoy the life we have rather than hoping for a second life we will not have.
And yet you continue to post your beliefs.
I am not a doomsayer; I am only arguing that one cannot both believe in the bible and believe in a loving god. My own beliefs are that god does not exist.
Imagist
Worshipper of Athe.
Heneni
Miss Independent
The bible says that hell will be destroyed and it says that earth will be destroyed and a new earth created. Ever wonder why both hell and earth will be destoyed. Isnt it obvious...its the same place.
Jesus said he came to start a fire...i dont see fire either, so where is it? Its the purifying fire of god. And where else is there fire...in hell.
God calls hell a place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Compared to gods kingdom, this place hell. There is no peace, there is fighting, there are wars, sickness, decease, suffering, crime....all this is far different to heaven, so god is right when he calls hell a place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, and people are already weeping and gnashing their teeth.
Hell,(earth) doesnt seem so bad for people because like a frog, it will allow itself to be boiled to death as it adjusts to the temperature of the heating water. In the same way...we adapt to our environment, become more and more cold hearted, unresponsive to correction, unresponsive towards god and so this place feels comfortable when it should be the exact opposite. And if we are honest this is a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If this isnt seperation from god, then what will be? Hell? But hell will be destroyed. So hell is not spiritually eternal, but physically eternal, but when the physical puts on the supernatural, the physical realm looses its eternity. Its only eternal until god puts a stop to it. Eternity means going around in circles. Stopping and starting over and over again. That is re-incarnation. And re-incarnation stops when the natural puts on the permanent clothes of the supernatural.
If people are going to die and they are going to burn in hell, how then does a spiritual being feel fire? And how does it manage to survive being constantly burned? And what would could a natural fire really do to a spiritual being?
Let me explain...this earth is hell. The time for re-incarnation i think is nearly over, if not over already. At some point the fire of god will be blazing here. If someone dies, his fire, which is all consuming, can consume their spirits, making them return to dust. From dust they were made and to dust they shall return. And so they reach their end. Eventually this earth will also reach its end.
The purifying fire of god however, does not consume his children because he says they are made of metal. Fire removes the dross and impurities from metal, but it burns to ashes wood. And ashes is scattered in the wind. But metal is not.
So when ben says our spirits return to ashes, he is right...but that is not the fate of all the people on the earth.
Heneni
Heneni
Miss Independent
Rev 20: 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
This lake of fire is the spiritual fire which im talking about. It the fire which will destroy hell and all its inhabitants.
If the earth is destroyed, there is nowhere for the spirits in this world to go. There isnt another home for them. If earth is destroyed so will those that remain on/in it. The destruction is final. They wont resurrect again. There isnt a hell suffering in the future. After this earth is gone, so is hell.
Heneni
This lake of fire is the spiritual fire which im talking about. It the fire which will destroy hell and all its inhabitants.
If the earth is destroyed, there is nowhere for the spirits in this world to go. There isnt another home for them. If earth is destroyed so will those that remain on/in it. The destruction is final. They wont resurrect again. There isnt a hell suffering in the future. After this earth is gone, so is hell.
Heneni
blackout
Violet.
Earth can be a heaven
Earth can be a hell
In every age/generation
individuals experience
"new heaven and new earth".
(as they travel the narrow path...
which would be the path of their own individuality,
and inner voice)
It is a paradigm shift.
"Heaven" comes to earth
as the higher frequency of "risen" indiviuals...
ripples out... to affect the "wholeness".
and THAT would be MY take.
Earth can be a hell
In every age/generation
individuals experience
"new heaven and new earth".
(as they travel the narrow path...
which would be the path of their own individuality,
and inner voice)
It is a paradigm shift.
"Heaven" comes to earth
as the higher frequency of "risen" indiviuals...
ripples out... to affect the "wholeness".
and THAT would be MY take.
Heneni
Miss Independent
The last enemy to be destroyed is death, that happens when we are freed from the prison that our bodies keep us in. When we have been given new clothes, therefore recieve a body that can not perish, we can enter the spiritual world of god and we would have shed our old skin, and put on a body that can not die.
. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
So far, our bodies keeps us locked up here on earth. We cannot travel to the stars, we cannot move in spiritual places. But when we loose this body of death, we are free to go home. That which is perishable, our bodies can not enter into a spiritual world.
At the moment when someone dies, their spirit is naked, it has no covering, which is why i believe in re-incarnation. Since the spirit at this moment needs physical clothes, we always return here. But when our spirits no longer need a physical body, we will recieve another type of clothing, a different type of body. A spiritual body, though no less real. This body is able to go back to god, the other one cant, not as long as it is trapped in it. And hell is eternal only as long as death is eternal. We live we die, the spirit needs a home, and returns here. One day, we will be given new bodies, so that we dont have to die, and return here to the place of the living dead.
heneni
. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
So far, our bodies keeps us locked up here on earth. We cannot travel to the stars, we cannot move in spiritual places. But when we loose this body of death, we are free to go home. That which is perishable, our bodies can not enter into a spiritual world.
At the moment when someone dies, their spirit is naked, it has no covering, which is why i believe in re-incarnation. Since the spirit at this moment needs physical clothes, we always return here. But when our spirits no longer need a physical body, we will recieve another type of clothing, a different type of body. A spiritual body, though no less real. This body is able to go back to god, the other one cant, not as long as it is trapped in it. And hell is eternal only as long as death is eternal. We live we die, the spirit needs a home, and returns here. One day, we will be given new bodies, so that we dont have to die, and return here to the place of the living dead.
heneni
blackout
Violet.
To live Fully Alive in the Eternal Now
(which is centered & found within)
one must shed their aversion to death.
Every single moment...
Every single season...
is a dying and a rising.
Transition and change itself
is a dying and a rising.
Stagnancy is death.
death of movement, of flow, of change.
And it emits a foul odor.
death... in it's fullest sense...
is not a bad thing.
It is exactly the thing that gives rise to New Life.
(which is centered & found within)
one must shed their aversion to death.
Every single moment...
Every single season...
is a dying and a rising.
Transition and change itself
is a dying and a rising.
Stagnancy is death.
death of movement, of flow, of change.
And it emits a foul odor.
death... in it's fullest sense...
is not a bad thing.
It is exactly the thing that gives rise to New Life.
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Heneni
Miss Independent
Death is not the end as you have said, it is the start of something new. However for me physical death means i have to return to earth.
However when death is destroyed i wont be coming back to earth. I'll be going to another dimensions where i am able to be constantly in the presence of god and back in his kingdom.
There is the death also, that every christian has to undergo...they have to die to self, and that they do while still alive. Its called crucifying yourself to the world. Self is crucified to the world, which means you sever all relations with it. We are in this world, but not off this world. So even though we are citizens of heaven, we are nomads in this world.
heneni.
However when death is destroyed i wont be coming back to earth. I'll be going to another dimensions where i am able to be constantly in the presence of god and back in his kingdom.
There is the death also, that every christian has to undergo...they have to die to self, and that they do while still alive. Its called crucifying yourself to the world. Self is crucified to the world, which means you sever all relations with it. We are in this world, but not off this world. So even though we are citizens of heaven, we are nomads in this world.
heneni.
blackout
Violet.
there is NO special death that "christians" have to undergo.
We ALL must die to the Self we have unwittingly become
(our past expectations, doctrines, formations, taboos, I-dols)
in order to arise to the New Truer Empowered Self
that is our higher potential and inner calling.
the "Kingdom of God" is available to all who are brave enough
to raise the sceptor of their birthright as co-creators in Life
with the Living Sentient UniVerse.
christian or not.
I myself am a citizen of heaven,
and a nomad on this Earth.
Yet...
I am not a christian.
How do you explain that?
We ALL must die to the Self we have unwittingly become
(our past expectations, doctrines, formations, taboos, I-dols)
in order to arise to the New Truer Empowered Self
that is our higher potential and inner calling.
the "Kingdom of God" is available to all who are brave enough
to raise the sceptor of their birthright as co-creators in Life
with the Living Sentient UniVerse.
christian or not.
I myself am a citizen of heaven,
and a nomad on this Earth.
Yet...
I am not a christian.
How do you explain that?
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