The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

I am a Christian, and I would like to shed a bit of light on this. God isn't a cruel, hateful, God; He is a loving God. He doesn't cast people into Hell kicking and screaming and begging for mercy; He casts them in with them shaking their fists and saying "We-Will-Not-Do-Things-Your-Way!" Our Most Holy God is loving and merciful, however we defy Him, we sin, we commit evil acts, and we do not repent. This is why there is a Hell, a place for those who defy our All-Knowing Heavenly Father, who will not accept His Divine and Holy rules. It is a place of evil, and as you might well imagine, evil cannot be allowed in Heaven. This is what I believe as a Christian and a member of the Order of True Christianity.

God Bless
-Templar

This sad testemony is why I will never be a part of christianity. This believer actually thinks that God will errect an eternal monument to sin, which is what hell would be. Our most Holy and Loving God willNOT do such an unholy and unmerciful thing as torture people forever. But christians believe this maddness, as people believe the maddness of evolution from nothing.

Humanity is sick, its whole head is sick.

Peace.

 

[theonetemplar]

This sad testemony is why I will never be a part of christianity. This believer actually thinks that God will errect an eternal monument to sin, which is what hell would be. Our most Holy and Loving God willNOT do such an unholy and unmerciful thing as torture people forever. But christians believe this maddness, as people believe the maddness of evolution from nothing.

Humanity is sick, its whole head is sick.

Peace.

Well then, what would you have God do with evil men, who sin against Him, knowing full well what acts they are committing, and never repenting. What would Our Heavenly Father do with men like Hitler, Stalin, and Pol-Pot? I believe whole-heartedly in the concept of eternal punishment for those who knowingly sin against God and do not repent. Also, who are you to judge the morality of God himself, the very maker of morality, and our Holy Savior?! You think that He hasn't done enough to save us by giving His only son to take our sins upon himself, suffer for us, and descend into Hell for three days to give us a clean slate... He gave so much so that we might gain entry to Heaven... and still people even worship the enemies of God, people sell their souls for personal gain, some even try to summon demons to Earth. It is for this reason that there is a Hell. Perhaps you are confused on why The Lord does not simply change the hearts and minds of people? God gave man free will, we can choose and make our own decisions, good and evil, right and wrong, sin and purity. God gave us a great responsibility with this, and Hell is the punishment for abusing such a privilege.

God Bless
-Templar

 

[mickiel]

Well then, what would you have God do with evil men, who sin against Him, knowing full well what acts they are committing, and never repenting. -Templar

The same thing he did with the Apostle Paul, who used to kill christians, change them. Forgive them of all they did, give them a new heart and a renewed mind, and Love them forever, thats what God can and will do with evil men.

YOU just don't want him to. Its not God who wants to put evil people in hell, its people who believe like you who desire such a thing.

And I , for one, am happy that such people do not control salvation, or many of us would be doomed.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

God cannot save us? We decide how much commandment we will keep? We find our own salvation?

Have you read your bible?

Php 2:13 -For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (So much for free will)

Jer 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (So much for free moral agency too)

Do i even need to show scriptures on salvation who it is from? It sure aint on the individual.



No with what you are saying God doesnt exist that it is all on ones "free" will and no God is needed for mankind to find happiness. God will save all so that He can be All in All. It was His plan "to give humanity an experience of EVIL to humble him by it" (ECC 1:13 Concordant Version) and it is His goal to be all in all and that He will do it because that is His pleasure

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 .... I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

And the lucifer doctrine is a hoax too.

Jesus's parable of the prodigal son seems to say otherwise. He prodigal thought he was as happy as a pig in sh*t until he came to himself and realized his situation stunk. Then his experience with his father kicked in and he remembered that everything was good at home. Granted some people may not have a recent memory of how good it was to be with the father but there are plenty of people around who have and can tell them about it. However it is extremelly difficult to get a person who loves evil to leave it. They are reprobate and according to Paul, God abandons them.

Jesus never said that he came to bring happiness (which is fleeting) but joy which is eternal.

 

[theonetemplar]

The same thing he did with the Apostle Paul, who used to kill christians, change them. Forgive them of all they did, give them a new heart and a renewed mind, and Love them forever, thats what God can and will do with evil men.

YOU just don't want him to. Its not God who wants to put evil people in hell, its people who believe like you who desire such a thing.

And I , for one, am happy that such people do not control salvation, or many of us would be doomed.

Peace.

Your accusations are unfounded, my friend. Never once did I say that I don't want forgiveness. Please, give up your stereotypes of Christians and listen; not to what you instinct, experiences, or surroundings and outside influences tell you to believe, but what I, as a Christian and a member of the Order of True Christianity, actually say. God will, as you said, "Forgive them of all they did, give them a new heart and a renewed mind, and Love them forever". But God will do so if and only if they accept their new heart, renewed mind, and the immeasurable Love of God." Paul had born witness to the Glory of our All-Knowing and Amazing God, and he believed in what God had told him. I believe that we shall all experience the glory of God when we pass on, and that is when we'll have our choice. When we are judged, we will be given this choice; accept and embrace the love of God, or be cast down into Hell, which is the option that those whom, even after witnessing the Glory of our Heavenly Father, and still choose to defy him face. It seems to me that you are insisting is that God take away our free will and use us like puppets, instead of granting us the power to choose. No one has to go to Hell, it is a choice; even for committing heinous acts such as murder, if you repent, are truly sorry, and become baptized... you will be forgiven.

God Bless
-Templar

 

[mickiel]

as a Christian and a member of the Order of True Christianity, actually say. God will, as you said, "Forgive them of all they did, give them a new heart and a renewed mind, and Love them forever". But God will do so if and only if they accept their new heart, renewed mind, and the immeasurable Love of God." Paul had born witness to the Glory of our All-Knowing and Amazing God, and he believed in what God had told him. God Bless
-Templar

Well you read the scriptures different than I do. Paul was given no chance for this so called choice you believe in. You think salvation, or change of mind, is based on human " Acceptance." I highly disagree with that. Show me where Paul was given a " Choice." Acts 9:1, " Now Saul, still breathing threats and Murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest so that he could get permission to kill more believers." In vs.4, Jesus knocks him down, Paul asks who he is, Jesus reveals who he is, then in verse 6 just outright tells him what to do. He removes Pauls sight and simply takes over his mind. And from then on, Paul does what he is told to do. There was no choice, no moment of free will decision, no asking questions, no test, God got his way with him.

And he will do this exact same thing to all of humanity, including you and I.

Peace.

 

[theonetemplar]

Well you read the scriptures different than I do. Paul was given no chance for this so called choice you believe in. You think salvation, or change of mind, is based on human " Acceptance." I highly disagree with that. Show me where Paul was given a " Choice." Acts 9:1, " Now Saul, still breathing threats and Murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest so that he could get permission to kill more believers." In vs.4, Jesus knocks him down, Paul asks who he is, Jesus reveals who he is, then in verse 6 just outright tells him what to do. He removes Pauls sight and simply takes over his mind. And from then on, Paul does what he is told to do. There was no choice, no moment of free will decision, no asking questions, no test, God got his way with him.

And he will do this exact same thing to all of humanity, including you and I.

Peace.

In Deuteronomy, it shows the Choice that man is given to accept God.

Deuteronomy 30:19 - I call Heaven and Earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Paul was no different than the rest of mankind to which this verse applies.

God Bless
-Templar

 

[theonepaladin]

Paul had the free will to choose whether or not to become Christian, even after he was blinded.

God Bless,
-Paladin

 

[mickiel]

You misinterpit Duet. 30:19, its only about how disobedient the Nation of Israel was toward God. They were under " The Law", obey and be blessed, disobey and be cursed. Just that simple, and they NEVER got it right. They stayed disobedient. Moses, in vs.19, was simply imploring Israel to be obedient and choose to be blessed, this verse has absolutely nothing to do with Salvation or this supposed free will you believe in, you have just been taught that it does.

Look at Jeremiah 10:23;" I know, O Lord, that a mans way is NOT in himself; Nor is it in a man to Direct his Steps." Now why weould God expect for us to " Choose Him", when its not in us to direct ourselves, the way to God is NOT automatically within a humans Heart. John 6:44, the human MUST FIRST be drawn to God, BY God, there is no other way in Scripture that I see.

But as I have stated, we just see differing. I see God controling Salvation, you see human choice controling it. And thats why its easy for you to condemn others, because you think you control salvation. The way of man is not in himself, meaning Salvation is not based on that mans will.

Peace.

[/quote]

 

[gzusfrk]

Well you read the scriptures different than I do. Paul was given no chance for this so called choice you believe in. You think salvation, or change of mind, is based on human " Acceptance." I highly disagree with that. Show me where Paul was given a " Choice." Acts 9:1, " Now Saul, still breathing threats and Murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest so that he could get permission to kill more believers." In vs.4, Jesus knocks him down, Paul asks who he is, Jesus reveals who he is, then in verse 6 just outright tells him what to do. He removes Pauls sight and simply takes over his mind. And from then on, Paul does what he is told to do. There was no choice, no moment of free will decision, no asking questions, no test, God got his way with him.

And he will do this exact same thing to all of humanity, including you and I.

Peace.

Paul was wanting to do God's will,but was confused but Jesus showed him how to do God's will and he was willing. And God does not send people to hell, He gave us a way to get to heaven, and since there is only one other place to go what would you have Him to do snap His finger's and get you to heaven that way.

 

[mickiel]

Paul was wanting to do God's will,but was confused but Jesus showed him how to do God's will and he was willing. And God does not send people to hell, He gave us a way to get to heaven, and since there is only one other place to go what would you have Him to do snap His finger's and get you to heaven that way.

Paul was wanting to kill christians, and thats what he did, and was doing when God " Stopped him in his tracks." And that condition of unbelief is what most humans will be in when God stops them in their tracks in a time ahead. And our God will do for them, what he did for Paul, change their thoughts and direction, and give them new sight.

You and I both will be in that group, all of humanity has been saved by Christ death, and absolutely nothing will change that.

Peace.

 

[gzusfrk]

Paul was wanting to kill christians, and thats what he did, and was doing when God " Stopped him in his tracks." And that condition of unbelief is what most humans will be in when God stops them in their tracks in a time ahead. And our God will do for them, what he did for Paul, change their thoughts and direction, and give them new sight.

You and I both will be in that group, all of humanity has been saved by Christ death, and absolutely nothing will change that.

Peace.

Can't say it won't happen.It would seem difficult to shake you fist at Jesus after you die.

 

[mickiel]

Can't say it won't happen.It would seem difficult to shake you fist at Jesus after you die.

Oh its going to happen, and absolutely nothing that lives can stop it, because God created our lives, and our lives cannot cause our seperation from him. Because we were created to live. But we only know Life from the " Incubator we are in", this earth is nothing short of a giant Incubator which God placed us all inside. We are experiencing Life in a " Closed environment that God created." We now only experience that environment. But he will one day remove us all from this " Box", and we will be born into a whole new existence.

Our belief, how we have live our lives, our will, our choices, none of this will factor into Gods preplanned destiny for us. Because he created us all to have this life we now know, but really cannot know our after life, because we are not finished in our creation.

And I want to go into that, after some much needed sleep.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Oh its going to happen, and absolutely nothing that lives can stop it, because God created our lives, and our lives cannot cause our seperation from him. Because we were created to live. But we only know Life from the " Incubator we are in", this earth is nothing short of a giant Incubator which God placed us all inside. We are experiencing Life in a " Closed environment that God created." We now only experience that environment. But he will one day remove us all from this " Box", and we will be born into a whole new existence.

Our belief, how we have live our lives, our will, our choices, none of this will factor into Gods preplanned destiny for us. Because he created us all to have this life we now know, but really cannot know our after life, because we are not finished in our creation.

And I want to go into that, after some much needed sleep.

Peace.

When will there be a harvest of the world? Life planted by its creator, when will there be a harvest of the world? Celebrate your life, hope that life gets better for the world. Dress us up for battle when all we want is greed. When will there be a harvest? When will there be? Everybody, when will there be?

There is a stairway to heaven. We didnot build it. Oh but its there, it leads to our God, OUR God, hes ours and we are his! We just don't know which way is up. Things have gotten funky and we don't have our direction together. We need a new lease on Life. We need to get our feet back on the ground. Humanitys way of life cannot see beyond itself. We need God, we will always need God.

Which way is up?

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

Obviously God is more intrested in Life than death and destruction, belief in eternal hell teachs that God will make an eternal monument out of destruction. Give eternity to misery. Such a belief is demeaning of the Lord of Life. We were created so that we may have Life, and be given it in its abundance, which means eternal Life.

Peace.

 

[Muffled]

Can't say it won't happen.It would seem difficult to shake you fist at Jesus after you die.

I don't see anything in the Bible that suggests that a person automatically encounters Jesus when they die (Near death experiences would corroborate this I believe). I read in the scriptures that a person dies and then comes judgement not salvation. However for a peson who is already saved when they die it would be a good judgement.

 

[mickiel]

I read in the scriptures that a person dies and then comes judgement not salvation. However for a peson who is already saved when they die it would be a good judgement.

And what kind of judgement will your christian god give to the unsaved? What happens to those who are evil and do not believe? What happens to those good people who do not believe? What will your god do to those who believe, but just never had enough strength to overcome the great influence called sin? What kind of judgement will those who were raised in a culture that never knew your god existed receive? Is you god going to condemn all these people to some morbid everlasting pit of pain?

Peace.

 

[Shahzad]

The mind that invented the doctrine of eternal hell must have been a very ill one. It simply does not occur to a normal person. Unfortunately the main contributer to this belief seems to have been no lessa figure than Jesus himself. He spoke more about hell than anyone else before him. Despite all his admirable qualities he brought into the world the doctrine of eternal hell for all those who rejected him, a hell to which he would condemn them to.

The question arises, why should he have such a belief? There are at least three options.

1. He was telling the truth about everything.
2. He was lying.
3. He was delusional to the point of insanity.

For those of us who find Christianity unconvincing the third option seems to me the most likely, how could a sane person claim to be God himself?

 

[Francis]

1. He was telling the truth about everything. 2. He was lying. 3. He was delusional to the point of insanity.

Guess which one i picked! Well, it's possible that the answer is 2, but that's the exact opposite of my faith. I don't think so. Number 3: Umm, i doubt this one, too. There some points where He acted a little crazy, but I doubt He was crazy, or else most of his followers would've had to been crazy to folllow Him. They didn't have a stunning lack of insane people back then, but this option seems unlikely as well. Therefore, number 1 it is! Peace!

 

[Shahzad]

I should have included a fourth option: That the stories regarding Jesus are largely fabricated. The first three options are if you believe that Jesus really made such claims about himself.

Not all insane people are rambling maniacs, in fact most aren't. Even today there are cult leaders at least some of whom are insane, who manage find a following. What would a non-Muslim think of Mohammad who believed he spoke to the angel Gabriel? I have no problem in regarding such a person as insane. Even Mohammad himself doubted his sanity at first!