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The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Doesn't Acts (11:26 B) say ...and the disciples were called "Christians" first in Antioch ?_____


Well yes, and it was a " New Name", and They didnot name themselves that, I think the Romans did, they were well aware of the term, Acts 26:28. But anyhow the term was adopted by the Christians themselves. In 1Pet. 4:16 Peter said that " If" anyone suffers as " A Christian", not to then be ashamed of that, BUT, in that NAME let him glorify God! Its just a NAME, nothingelse. In Acts 5:41, we suffer in Jesus NAME! Some Jews themselves called Christianity a " Sect", Acts 28:22, 24:5. This name first started in Antioch and it has been adapted and usurped by millions. And I think it has lost its true meaning.

Peace.
 

lockyfan

Active Member
Well yes, and it was a " New Name", and They didnot name themselves that, I think the Romans did, they were well aware of the term, Acts 26:28. But anyhow the term was adopted by the Christians themselves. In 1Pet. 4:16 Peter said that " If" anyone suffers as " A Christian", not to then be ashamed of that, BUT, in that NAME let him glorify God! Its just a NAME, nothingelse. In Acts 5:41, we suffer in Jesus NAME! Some Jews themselves called Christianity a " Sect", Acts 28:22, 24:5. This name first started in Antioch and it has been adapted and usurped by millions. And I think it has lost its true meaning.

Peace.

So what do you think the true meaning of being a christian is?

I know what the true meaning of a chrisitain is, it is one that believes in Christ and his sacrifice to save all others and actually LIVES the life that Jehovah intended us to live, that of a peaceful, loving people FOLLOWING his every instruction.

Actually not just having faith, but EXERCISING that faith.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Christianity or Christendom?

After the first century ended there were wolves in sheep's clothing, so to speak, that would develop within what was the 'first-century Christianity' of the Bible. See Acts 20:29,30. Jesus also forewarned that in our time frame that would also be the case- Matthew 24:24.

Jesus illustration of the wheat and weeds (true and false Christians) would grow together until the separation at harvest time or our time frame has proved true.

So-called believers may credit torment in hellfire to God when Scriptures plainly states that the dead know nothing at Ecclesiastes 9:5,10.
When one knows nothing can one know either suffering or bliss ?
Being in an unconscious state is also shown true by Jesus words that liken death to being in a deep sleep. - John 11:11-14.

Even the Psalmist knew the dead sleep the sleep of death as we can see by their words at: Psalm 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4.

The prophet Daniel (12:2) believed the dead need to be awakened from death's sleep. This would be via resurrection on resurrection morning during Jesus thousand-year rule over earth. Acts 24:15.

The end for the wicked is not forever flames but the punishment of everlasting destruction. 2nd Thess. 1:9, 2:8; Matthew 12:32.

I know this about death (the dead no nothing, no acts thoughts, devices, nothing). But it seems that you think eternal annihilation is the other option God put forth. You are wrong. First off everlasting, eternal, eternity, for ever and ever and the likes are not scriptural. This is a great mistranslation done of the word aion/aionis in these bibles out there so there is no "everlasting" destruction.

Also it wasnt after the first century when wolves came in. This was happening almost from the very beginning. Look at all the warnings stated by the Apostles in their writings. It was happening while they were still alive.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
So what do you think the true meaning of being a christian is?

I know what the true meaning of a chrisitain is, it is one that believes in Christ and his sacrifice to save all others and actually LIVES the life that Jehovah intended us to live, that of a peaceful, loving people FOLLOWING his every instruction.

Actually not just having faith, but EXERCISING that faith.


I think the meaning you give here is sufficent Lockyfan, I agree with it.

Peace.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I know this about death (the dead no nothing, no acts thoughts, devices, nothing). But it seems that you think eternal annihilation is the other option God put forth. You are wrong. First off everlasting, eternal, eternity, for ever and ever and the likes are not scriptural. This is a great mistranslation done of the word aion/aionis in these bibles out there so there is no "everlasting" destruction.

Also it wasnt after the first century when wolves came in. This was happening almost from the very beginning. Look at all the warnings stated by the Apostles in their writings. It was happening while they were still alive.

Please notice Acts 20:29,30 because there Luke writes 'after'.

The apostles acted as a restraint while they were alive, but 'after' they were gone is when we actually see the start of Jesus illustration at Matthew 13:24-30.

aion/aionis is not the Greek adjective aidios which specifically means eternal or everlasting. Such as Romans 1:20 (eternal) and Jude 6 (everlasting).

What is the Hebrew meaning of Psalm 9:5,6; 10:16; 92:7; 104:5; 145:1,2 ?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I know this about death (the dead no nothing, no acts thoughts, devices, nothing). But it seems that you think eternal annihilation is the other option God put forth.

Since we know as Ecc (9:5,10) relates the dead know nothing, even No thoughts as Psalm (146:4) brings to our attention, then the dead are neither in suffering or bliss. Who needs a resurrection from the dead but the dead. If a dead person is Not resurrected wouldn't they remain in an unconscious state?

Since forgiveness is involved in being resurrected then those that commit the unforgivable sin of Matthew (12:32) and Hebrews (6:4-6) are Not forgiven.

Isn't Jesus ransom sacrifice for 'many' and not 'all' as Matthew (20:28 B) brings out ? According to Acts (24:15) are 'all' resurrected or is it only the just and unjust (righteous/ unrighteous)? Where are the willfully wicked ones if not included in the resurrection? Please also see: Hebrews 10:26.

Since we know the unconscious condition of the dead, wouldn't that same condition hold true for those in the 'second death' ?
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
Since we know as Ecc (9:5,10) relates the dead know nothing, even No thoughts as Psalm (146:4) brings to our attention, then the dead are neither in suffering or bliss. Who needs a resurrection from the dead but the dead. If a dead person is Not resurrected wouldn't they remain in an unconscious state?

Since forgiveness is involved in being resurrected then those that commit the unforgivable sin of Matthew (12:32) and Hebrews (6:4-6) are Not forgiven.

Isn't Jesus ransom sacrifice for 'many' and not 'all' as Matthew (20:28 B) brings out ? According to Acts (24:15) are 'all' resurrected or is it only the just and unjust (righteous/ unrighteous)? Where are the willfully wicked ones if not included in the resurrection? Please also see: Hebrews 10:26.

Since we know the unconscious condition of the dead, wouldn't that same condition hold true for those in the 'second death' ?

Psalm 146:4 says the following---
His spirit goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, In that day have his thoughts perished.

Now, could this not mean that in the day a person dies, that person's desires, and dreams, and aspirations afterward on earth are not profitable. The day I die, I may wish the Phillies to win, but what happens after I die is unknown to me... What I've not told people before I die, I can not then tell them.
 
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AK4

Well-Known Member
If a dead person is Not resurrected wouldn't they remain in an unconscious state?
Yup

Since forgiveness is involved in being resurrected then those that commit the unforgivable sin of Matthew (12:32) and Hebrews (6:4-6) are Not forgiven.

There is no unforgivable sin. that verse in Matthew is translated wrong

28 "Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin" -- (Concordant Translation)

"And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Man, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, [ever? continue reading...] neither in THIS EON [age] nor in that [age] which is IMPENDING."

That is to say in plain english there is no forgiveness in this age or the age to come. Is that the end. Nope. The scriptures go on to tell us more is still to come like Judgment and then "God will be all in all". So after this age and the next they will go through judgment and repent and then God will be all in all. So they are forgiven.
Isn't Jesus ransom sacrifice for 'many' and not 'all' as Matthew (20:28 B) brings out ?

Thats like saying when Paul stated that "all men have sinned". We know and accept that all means all in that verse but its just that for "many" in that Matthew verse people believe there is a limitation to that word many. Look at this way, universalist believe that all of Gods creation will be saved, now lets use that Matthew verse withthat word many and put a limitation to that word. Where does the many stop? With only believers and not the unbelievers and angels and demons? What if the "many" is all mankind with no angels or demons? What if that many included mankind and angels and demons? and so on and so on. See what i am saying.

According to Acts (24:15) are 'all' resurrected or is it only the just and unjust (righteous/ unrighteous)? Where are the willfully wicked ones if not included in the resurrection? Please also see: Hebrews 10:26.

The just and unjust covers all. Theres no in between.

Since we know the unconscious condition of the dead, wouldn't that same condition hold true for those in the 'second death' ?

Did you forget that other verse and remember the scriptures cannot contradict so that means either you have to believe Gods Word lies and He is a liar or your understanding my be off a little. Heres that verse

Heb 9:27 - And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this {comes} judgment,
So the second death can not be a literal second death could it? Or else we have a blatant contradiction. In short, The second death is the death of the carnal mind. There is no eternal annihilation
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Please notice Acts 20:29,30 because there Luke writes 'after'.

The apostles acted as a restraint while they were alive, but 'after' they were gone is when we actually see the start of Jesus illustration at Matthew 13:24-30.

aion/aionis is not the Greek adjective aidios which specifically means eternal or everlasting. Such as Romans 1:20 (eternal) and Jude 6 (everlasting).

From an email

The word translated "eternal" in Rom. 1:20 and Jude 6 is "aidion." The "a" is a prefix meaning "un" or "no" or "not." It is a negative just as in the word "hades" which Dr. Strong correctly informs us is made up of "G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen" UN-seen, or NOT-seen--IMperceptible.

Well, aidion is very close to being the same word and means "IMperceptible, and this is precisely what the context of these two Scriptural usages prove.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known [something perceivable] of God is manifest [made perceivable] in them; for God hath showed [made perceivable] it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible [IMperceivable] things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made [what is NOT perceivable, NOT seen, CAN be seen by things that ARE SEEN, namely "the THINGS that are made], even His eternal power [yes, "even His UNseen, NOT seen, IMperceptable power" can BE SEEN by things that CAN BE SEEN, namely "the things that are made] and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

There is the contextual proof of the word, plain and simple. Now Jude:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting [Gk: 'aidion'] chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Once more, let's look at the context: Notice that these angels are "reserved." Here is the definition of "reserve"--"1. To keep back, as for FUTURE USE or for a special purpose" (American Heritage College Dictionary). How can some that is "everlasting" as the King James suggests, be "kept back for FUTURE USE?" That is nonsense! That is terrible translating. Other translations use the words "to" and "for" in place of the King James "unto the judgment." In other words these restraining chains last only "till" "to" or "for" another day. These chains are not "everlasting," but rather they are "imperceptible." How does one "chain" a spirit being with "visible iron chains made with matter?"


What is the Hebrew meaning of Psalm 9:5,6; 10:16; 92:7; 104:5; 145:1,2 ?
Okay the verses talking about the Lord and Him reigning "forever and ever"-- hold on before i go there, think on this and the obsurdity of it.

How long is forever?

Logical answer: forever or for eternity

Okay now that we established that, why do these translators have to add another ever to for ever if forever is forever? Get it? If forever is eternal or eternity, why do you have to add another "ever" to say forever?

Logical answer should be: You know that is awfully wierd and doesnt make sense.

Okay so back to those verses, we know that Christ doesnt reign forever [and ever] because He turns over the kingdom to the Father [1 Corinthians 15:20-34]. So that should help you with those verses. Again either we have a blatant contradiction or translation error.

As for the wicked "olam" is pratically the same as aion/aionis. Olam basically means obscurity, indefinite, unknowable amout of time. Theres a big difference between forever and indefinite, unknowable amout of time. For instance a mans lifetime is an indefinite, unknowable amout of time and not forever.
 
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AK4

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you this: Is unbelief a sin? And will God forgive an unbeliever ( if he/she remains in unbelief until death?) There you have it! The Unforgivable sin is UNBELIEF. I Believe that is biblical.

Maybe biblical [depending on which translation you are using] but not scriptural.

Let me ask you this: who gives faith or how does one get faith?

Logical/scriptural answer: Its a gift FROM God

Good Good, now if God doesnt GIVE some one faith and their UNBELIEF is the unforgivable sin, what is it that you are REALLY SAYING about God?

Think on that one.
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you this: Is unbelief a sin? And will God forgive an unbeliever ( if he/she remains in unbelief until death?) There you have it! The Unforgivable sin is UNBELIEF. I Believe that is biblical.

There is one unforgivible sin.

"The unforgivable sin of speaking against the Holy Spirit has been interpreted in various ways, but the true meaning cannot contradict other Scripture. It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36). Thus, speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible. 'My spirit shall not always strive with man,' God said long ago (Genesis 6:3).
…In the context of this particular passage (Matthew 12:22-32), Jesus had performed a great miracle of creation, involving both healing and casting out a demon, but the Pharisees rejected this clear witness of the Holy Spirit. Instead they attributed His powers to Satan, thus demonstrating an attitude permanently resistant to the Spirit, and to the deity and saving Gospel of Christ" [SIZE=-1][Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Bible Publishers, 1995), emphasis added.][/SIZE].
What is the difference between the two types of blasphemy described in Matthew 12? Why is the sacrifice of Christ ineffective as an atonement for the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Respected Christian theologian Dr. F.F. Bruce writes,
"…Speaking against the Son of man might be due to a failure to recognize Him for what He is. So Paul recalls how in his pre-Christian days he thought it his duty to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. But if, having seen the light on the Damascus road, he had deliberately closed his eyes to it and kicked out against the goad which was directing him into the true path, that would have been the sin against the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit persuades and enables men to accept Christ and enjoy the saving benefits of the gospel [John 16:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12-14; Acts 7:51], but if anyone refuses to submit to the Spirit's gracious constraint, preferring to call good evil and evil good, how can the gospel avail for him? The deliberate refusal of the grace of God is the one sin which by its very nature is irremediable" [SIZE=-1][F.F. Bruce, Answers to Questions (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1973), pp. 46-47.][/SIZE].
"Anyone who rejects the Holy Spirit's convicting influence and does not repent will not be forgiven, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'neither in this world, neither in the world to come' (Matthew 12:32)"[/FONT] [SIZE=-1][Ray Comfort, “The Unpardonable Sin,” The Evidence Bible (Gainesville, Florida: Bridge-Logo Publishers, 2001).][/SIZE].
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Matthew 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].

jesusmiracle-roof.jpg

The situation was similar at the biblical city of Capernaum, where Jesus Christ performed an extraordinary number of miracles and taught many important public lessons. In the end, most of the people of Capernaum remained unrepentant. Like the Pharisees, they persistently rejected the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit who bore witness to the true identity of Jesus Christ, their Messiah.
They turned away from the abundant light graciously provided to them, and chose to remain forever in their unbelief. They persistently refused to listen to anything the Holy Spirit was telling them. Like the Pharisees, they chose self-imposed blindness. For this reason, they were strongly judged. [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required…" (Luke 12:48).[/FONT] Thus, along with nearby Chorazin and Bethsaida, Capernaum received a very stern warning from Jesus, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]"It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee" (Matt. 11:21-24)[/FONT].
How can one know whether or not they have committed "the unforgivable sin?"</B>

Bible researcher Larry Richards points out,
"This reference to an unforgivable sin has troubled many unnecessarily. Those who are concerned that they have done something for which Jesus will not forgive them show a very different attitude from the Pharisees, who refused to accept even the most compelling evidence that Jesus was the Son of God. The person who rejects the Spirit's message about Jesus will not be forgiven. Anyone who seeks Jesus' forgiveness certainly has not committed the unforgivable sin" [SIZE=-1][Larry Richards, 735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Fleming H. Revell, 1993), pp. 241-242.][/SIZE].
Scholars Morris and Clark further explain:
"Persons deeply troubled by a guilty conscience often fear that they have sinned too grievously for God to forgive and save them. Others, dominated by a carnal, calculating attitude, hope to sin to the limit and then come to Christ to escape the consequences. Thus with radically different motives, both ask 'Is it possible to sin beyond the point of being saved?'
God's ability to save is not limited by man's sinfulness. In fact, every person, before he accepts Jesus Christ as Savior, is in total rebellion against God, though sinfulness many not manifest itself with equal intensity in every person. The Apostle John taught believers,
'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He is the propitiation (satisfaction) for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world' (1 John 2:1-2).
 

LittleNipper

Well-Known Member
The Bible is filled with examples of people who receive forgiveness for all manner of wickedness, for [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'the Lord's hand is not short that it cannot save' (Isaiah 59:1)[/FONT]. God's boundless grace prompted Paul to exclaim, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'When sin increased, grace abounded all the more' (Romans 5:20).[/FONT] And Paul's personal testimony showed God's redemptive purpose and power were not limited by man's sinfulness, thus encouraging those who feared they had sinned too grievously to be saved (1 Timothy 1:15-16).
While God's ability to save is boundless, the Bible clearly shows that there are certain conditions under which He will not save. For instance, God will not save those who neglect or despise Christ's sacrifice in an effort to find an alternate salvation plan.
'For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' (Hebrews 10:26).
highpriest2.jpg
This warning pertains to those who [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'trample under foot the Son of God'[/FONT] and regard His blood as unclean (Hebrews 10:29). God the Father has appointed His Son's sacrifice as the sole way of salvation and will not grant salvation to those who seek it by any other means.
The book of Romans contains the most concentrated teaching on the subject of salvation to be found in the New Testament, and it begins with a panorama of man's sin. Those who rejected God's revelation concerning Himself and worshipped idols instead were given over by God to a more severe moral defilement (Romans 1:22-24). Those who worshipped man instead of God received equally severe punishment: [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions,'[/FONT] the result being rampant immorality and homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27).
'And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper' (Romans 1:28).
Several conclusions can be drawn from these warnings.
  • First, God actively punishes unconfessed sin not only after the sinner's death, but also during that person's life.
  • Also, moral degradation is a punishment of God upon willful spiritual ignorance.
  • Further, when God gives one over to a depraved mind, that person's sensitivity to sin is deadened and his chances for repentance thereby lessened.
  • Yet, God does not violate man's freedom, forcing man to sin and then judging him for it. Rather, men in this state welcome more extreme degradation and actively embrace it: [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'who being past feeling, have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness' (Ephesians 4:19).[/FONT]
    Consequently, Scripture states both that Pharaoh hardened his heart against God, and that God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 8:32; 9:12).
The Holy Spirit convicts men of their sin and draws them to the Savior (John 16:8-11; 3:5-6). Yet, at least once in history, God has punished iniquity by withdrawing His Spirit. Prior to the world-wide flood, God said, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'My Spirit will not strive with man forever,'[/FONT] and then He appointed 120 years during which repentance could be made (Genesis 6:3). Instead of repenting, man used God's longsuffering as an occasion for further sin, and only Noah and his family were spared.

God has further declared that He will not forgive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31).
&#8230;If one's conscience is bothering him to the point that he feels he is too guilty for God to forgive, he has the assurance of God's Word that forgiveness is possible. The very fact that he is bothered by his sinfulness shows that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned him nor has God given him over to a depraved mind.
The real danger arises, however, when one can continually violate God's law and never feel the slightest remorse over his rebellion. The Bible's warning should jolt the spiritually flippant out of their complacency:"
"It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).
"Seek the Lord while He may be found; call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the Lord, and He will have compassion on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:6).
[Henry M. Morris and Martin E. Clark, The Bible Has the Answer, Revised and Expanded (Green Forest, Arkansas: Master Books, 1976), pp. 244-246, emphasis added.]
George Standison and staff further clarify,
" With this exception [the unforgivable sin], there is nothing in the category of human offenses that is beyond the reach of divine forgiveness. [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'Although your sins be like scarlet, they shall be white as snow.'[/FONT] is the ancient promise given by God to men; [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool' [Isaiah 1:18][/FONT].
This is not to be interpreted, however, as an encouragement to sin, but rather as an inducement to repentance. If the sinner truly repents, imploring God's forgiveness for Jesus' sake; if he accepts him as Saviour and endeavors, with divine help, to live thereafter a Christian life, he will not only be forgiven, but will be kept from falling back into sin. This is the teaching of the Gospel, and it is exemplified in innumerable cases today. We have many instances everywhere of great sinners who have forsaken their evil ways and who are now living the new life, sustained by divine power.
'There's a wideness in God's mercy
Like the wideness of the sea.'​
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
The Bible is filled with examples of people who receive forgiveness for all manner of wickedness, for [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'the Lord's hand is not short that it cannot save' (Isaiah 59:1)[/FONT]. God's boundless grace prompted Paul to exclaim, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'When sin increased, grace abounded all the more' (Romans 5:20).[/FONT] And Paul's personal testimony showed God's redemptive purpose and power were not limited by man's sinfulness, thus encouraging those who feared they had sinned too grievously to be saved (1 Timothy 1:15-16).
While God's ability to save is boundless, the Bible clearly shows that there are certain conditions under which He will not save. For instance, God will not save those who neglect or despise Christ's sacrifice in an effort to find an alternate salvation plan.
'For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' (Hebrews 10:26).
highpriest2.jpg
This warning pertains to those who [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'trample under foot the Son of God'[/FONT] and regard His blood as unclean (Hebrews 10:29). God the Father has appointed His Son's sacrifice as the sole way of salvation and will not grant salvation to those who seek it by any other means.
The book of Romans contains the most concentrated teaching on the subject of salvation to be found in the New Testament, and it begins with a panorama of man's sin. Those who rejected God's revelation concerning Himself and worshipped idols instead were given over by God to a more severe moral defilement (Romans 1:22-24). Those who worshipped man instead of God received equally severe punishment: [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions,'[/FONT] the result being rampant immorality and homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27).
'And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper' (Romans 1:28).
Several conclusions can be drawn from these warnings.
  • First, God actively punishes unconfessed sin not only after the sinner's death, but also during that person's life.
  • Also, moral degradation is a punishment of God upon willful spiritual ignorance.
  • Further, when God gives one over to a depraved mind, that person's sensitivity to sin is deadened and his chances for repentance thereby lessened.
  • Yet, God does not violate man's freedom, forcing man to sin and then judging him for it. Rather, men in this state welcome more extreme degradation and actively embrace it: [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'who being past feeling, have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness' (Ephesians 4:19).[/FONT]
    Consequently, Scripture states both that Pharaoh hardened his heart against God, and that God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 8:32; 9:12).
The Holy Spirit convicts men of their sin and draws them to the Savior (John 16:8-11; 3:5-6). Yet, at least once in history, God has punished iniquity by withdrawing His Spirit. Prior to the world-wide flood, God said, [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'My Spirit will not strive with man forever,'[/FONT] and then He appointed 120 years during which repentance could be made (Genesis 6:3). Instead of repenting, man used God's longsuffering as an occasion for further sin, and only Noah and his family were spared.

God has further declared that He will not forgive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31).
…If one's conscience is bothering him to the point that he feels he is too guilty for God to forgive, he has the assurance of God's Word that forgiveness is possible. The very fact that he is bothered by his sinfulness shows that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned him nor has God given him over to a depraved mind.
The real danger arises, however, when one can continually violate God's law and never feel the slightest remorse over his rebellion. The Bible's warning should jolt the spiritually flippant out of their complacency:"
"It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).
"Seek the Lord while He may be found; call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the Lord, and He will have compassion on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:6).
[Henry M. Morris and Martin E. Clark, The Bible Has the Answer, Revised and Expanded (Green Forest, Arkansas: Master Books, 1976), pp. 244-246, emphasis added.]
George Standison and staff further clarify,
" With this exception [the unforgivable sin], there is nothing in the category of human offenses that is beyond the reach of divine forgiveness. [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'Although your sins be like scarlet, they shall be white as snow.'[/FONT] is the ancient promise given by God to men; [FONT=Times, Times New Roman]'though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool' [Isaiah 1:18][/FONT].
This is not to be interpreted, however, as an encouragement to sin, but rather as an inducement to repentance. If the sinner truly repents, imploring God's forgiveness for Jesus' sake; if he accepts him as Saviour and endeavors, with divine help, to live thereafter a Christian life, he will not only be forgiven, but will be kept from falling back into sin. This is the teaching of the Gospel, and it is exemplified in innumerable cases today. We have many instances everywhere of great sinners who have forsaken their evil ways and who are now living the new life, sustained by divine power.
'There's a wideness in God's mercy
Like the wideness of the sea.'​

All those "scholars and theologians" you quoted read and interpreted bible verses, not scripture. One would think that since they had all that "knowledge" they would check the original scriptures before putting out the filth they wrote.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
You can make history right now just by saying, " I've read them!"

i cant read hebrew or greek, but thats why we concordances and interlinearies and many many different translations by many many people. I dont subscribe to just one and niether should anyone else. Even the writers of the 1611 KIng James warned their readers of this.
 

~Amin~

God is the King
I really am looking to understand God, but not this God that humans teach, but the real God of Love , Joy and Peace. Not this God of eternal hell punishing, but the God of Patience, forgiveness and Mercy. You know, the real God, not this insane lunatic that many are trying to pass God off as being. You know, this lunatic that will place humans in this eternal Pain amphlipier and punish them for billions upon trillions of untold time and on into infinity. I just can't imagine how out of control this hell fire belief has gotten. And how much these bloodthirsty christians who teach it have ruined Gods reputation.

The eternal punishing of anything, muchless a human, is a sick concept, yet many believers have swallowed it into their belief, hook, line and sinker. And THAT is evidence of just how much foolishness we will absorb.

Peace.
'
Sir Isaac Newton said "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction'' God Does not want people in Hell, but its a consequence of Our own actions. The same way in this life there is a response to every action not just personal but also universal, ie
if you commit a crime you will most definitely be captured if not physically then mentally which is a consequence of your OWN choosing, so to Blame God Almighty is not very accurate or fair. I would like to ask you, We speak of the Love of God, But where is His Justice if He were to let Crimes Go Unpunished?
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
Sir Isaac Newton said "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction'' God Does not want people in Hell, but its a consequence of Our own actions.
If Newtonian rules apply, then the "eternal" part of Hell would have to be scrapped. There is simply nothing I could accomplish in my tiny temporal existence that would call for eternal anything - punishment or reward. Trying to apply eternal consequences to temporal actions is sort of like dividing by zero. It just doesn't work.

I think I saw someone post a few days ago that the Islamic version of Hell is not eternal, but I don't remember the details.
 
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