The sick concept of Eternal hell suffering.

[mickiel]

This evil being will do anything to disrupt and corrupt Gods commission to Christ to be the Savior of the World, and he uniquely uses religion, most notably Christianity, to help his mad rage at Gods plan of Life for all, except him and his demons. You see really its satan and his demons being left out, so he is changing the true gospel message into a message where many humans will be left out.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

Thats the crutch of satans deception, using religion to magnify his fate of being left out. satan is doomed, has known from his birth that he is doomed. But the bible reveals satan as VERY wise and cunning, so intelligent and crafty, that he has " Deceived this ENTIRE planet", Rev. 12:9. Thats a great power when you can seduce a " World." But now consider one of the crafty ways satan has done this. He didNOT start some giant devil worshipping movement, and attack Gods plan from there. He didNOT place human focus on himself and go directly after their consciousness with a full frontal attack, instead he has used the " Very Followers of God themselves", believers, to spread his doctrine ( or his fate) of doom. Ingenius. Simply brillant wisdom in deception. He has used and is using, religion itself as his frontal attack. Believers with distorted views of the bible and salvation, actively pumping out satans message of limited salvation. Because hes left out, he has convinced most believers that most humans will be left out.

And I want to go into that.

Peace.

 

[imaginaryme]

You know, it does not really matter what is presented to some individuals and the proof that is given, they have there on mind set to what they want and no matter what is presented to them, they would not accept. Even if Jesus Christ appeared to them in person and told them, it would not matter.

Bingo.

Individualization. Don't agree with the herd mentality, well; you must be wrong. Baaa -h. Let me tell you how it is as "a prophet in the modern world." Everybody agrees that I am "steady-state miraculous." Everybody agrees I know stuff. Everybody agrees there's "something going on." But do they listen to the prophet or the minister? Baaa -h. No one gives a flying f... And all I could do is cause more chaos. Yay!

With the media, with youtube, with the preponderance of information available in the modern world; nobody knows what to believe, but sure enough, everybody is afraid - and mostly they are afraid to be alone.

So. I'm about useless. Christians I meet in the real world "know something's up" with this cat - but all I can do is make them more uncomfortable. I know plenty who read their Bible, love their Jesus, and cause no contention. So the heck with god naming me prophet - I name him little creep - because I know the real tally. The purpose of god is for the individual to find comfort in god. That's it. Individualization that applies to all individuals, bar none. No burning, no deceit; no nuffink. And if god ain't comfortable, god don't exist. God's cool like that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The times of ignorance is past (Acts 17:30) God is now telling all to repent? Why?
2nd Peter 3:9 says because God is not willing (desires) any should perish or be destroyed but that all should come to repentance. Ezekiel 33:11-15 brings out that although God has no pleasure in the death of someone wicked but rather the stipulation to turn from evil so as not to die. Both wicked and righteous are to be warned first as Ezekiel 3:18-21 says, and this is being accomplished by how a person reacts to the good news of Gods kingdom mentioned at Matthew 24:14. Also, how a person treats Jesus 'brothers' (Matt 25:40) is a touchstone for Jesus to use in judging.

 

[AK4]

Matthew 12:32 does not mention hellfire belief as the unforgivable sin.


Hell fire developed from the word Gehenna which was a burning garbage dump where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna is a fitting symbol for destruction, not forever torture.
So, the hellfire idea developed from the word Gehenna rather than the words hades or sheol which is mankind's common grave or sleeping place til the resurrection.
Acts 24:15.

You are wrong. Hell [fire] came from the greeks notion of the underworld. The greeks got it from the egyptians. The egyptian amenti's was the "hell with fire" of torturing souls for ever.

Do the research and you will see where the origin of hell fire came from. Actually its pretty sick to think that it was Jesus who originated the "hell fire" concept.

Remember the Christianity of the first century changed after the death of the apostles. Luke warns (Acts 20:29,30) that wolf-like ones in sheep clothing, so to speak, would enter in among the congregation. Since Jesus said 'many' would come 'in his name' but prove false- See Matthew chapter 7 - then it is expected that most of so-called Christianity is just that- "so-called".

You know its kinda ironic too. The wolves in sheeps clothing teach that it is literally a person who comes and say that they [that person] is Jesus [i.e. david koresh] and this what you should look out for. No its actually those wolves in sheeps clothing who come "in the name of Jesus" who will decieve many saying Jesus is the Christ [using the most clever tool of satan--mixing lies with truth] we all should be looking out for. Jesus IS the Christ but when these wolves mix in all their other damnable heresies like hell they "decieve many". Uhm doesnt this sound as if its talking about the scholars and theologians, preachers, etc etc and the 30,000 different denominations of christianity?

Yes

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are wrong. Hell [fire] came from the greeks notion of the underworld. The greeks got it from the egyptians. The egyptian amenti's was the "hell with fire" of torturing souls for ever.

Do the research and you will see where the origin of hell fire came from. Actually its pretty sick to think that it was Jesus who originated the "hell fire" concept.

Jesus did Not originate 'hell fire' .

If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to its pagan roots we do find the pagan origin of hell with fire.

Jesus words at Matt 5:22, 18:8,9 about everlasting hell fire has brought people to connect fire with hell. The 'Greek word' translated as not just hell but hell fire is the word 'Gehenna'. Gehenna was a garbage dump were things were destroyed and not kept alive burning forever. So, the hellfire (Gehenna) of Matthew is a fitting symbol of destruction not torture.
John 3:16 (perish/ destroyed).

In the Hebrew Scriptures at Jeremiah 7:31; 32:35 the idea of having people burn their children in fire God did not command nor did it come up into his heart do do such a thing. Yes, hell fire concept is of pagan origin.

 

[Man of Faith]

Every NDE that I have read about where a person reports to have gone to hell, report that they deserved to be there.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He has used and is using, religion itself as his frontal attack. Believers with distorted views of the bible and salvation, actively pumping out satans message of limited salvation. Because hes left out, he has convinced most believers that most humans will be left out.
Peace.

Satan has been sinning since the beginning or start of his going bad.
1st John 3:8

'Limited' does not necessarily mean 'most'. Please notice (Matt 20:28) that Jesus ransom sacrifice is for: 'many'. True not all (Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6) but many would include a 'majority'.

The 'few' of Matt 7:14 are like the sheep, and the many mentioned there are like the goats at the time Jesus comes in action (Matt 25:32). The sheep-like ones living on earth will remain alive, and those 'majority' already asleep in death's deep sleep will be awakened from the dust of the ground (Daniel 12:2) to the prospect too of everlasting life in view. Since death frees or acquits from sin (Romans 6:7) then the sleeping dead will awaken to life on resurrection morning during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth.


Ecc 9:5; Psalm 6:6; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; John 11:11-14; Acts 24:15

 

[Muffled]

The greek hades was the realm of the dead. There is no word that means or has anything to do with being tortured for all eternity in fire.

wikipedia

Notice even wikipedia knows the meaning for the english word hell was used to transfer a PAGAN concept to christian theology. A pagan concept. Shouldnt that throw up a red flag to anyone? Hell was used back then to mean "to conceal or hide" as in placing your potatoes in the ground (hell). It had nothing to do with what christians dubb as hell--eternal torment.

There is NO Scriptural or rational reason for translating the Hebrew word sheol into the English word "hell" at all—NONE! And there surely is no reason to use the word hell in light of the fact that the Old English meaning of this word has been grossly perverted by the Christian church beyond recognition over the past four centuries. Let’s look at our definitions once more:
The "hell" as the English used it in everyday life in the 1600’s:

Webster’s Twentieth Century Dictionary: "hell, n. [ME, helle; AS, hell, hell, from helan, to cover, conceal.]"
​

The "hell" of the 21st Century:

The American Heritage Collegiate Dictionary: "The abode of condemned souls and devils...the place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan…a state of separation from God…a place of evil, misery, discord, or destruction …torment, anguish."
​

There was no hebrew concept of hell. Hell is a christian hoax. Gehenna was used as a reference to Christs judgments on His elect. Notice its His disciples He was talking to when this was said and they are ALIVE when this judgment is taking place. Hells concept is the dead are somehow ALIVE, with thoughts, conscienceness, and rememberance etc etc. The Word speaks of the realm of the dead as noone is ALIVE, no thoughts conscienceness, rememberance, no nothing "let them be silent in death" as the scriptures say (paraphrased).



Using that rationale i could say unicorns smells like aliens

"tortured in fire" is a doctrine not a translation. If the passage says **** of fire, does that descibe the grave? Have any of the graves you have visited, spouted fire out of their bowels or feel any hotter than any other place?

Hades was not just a place for the dead but two places: one place of fire for the wicked and a place of paradise for the righteous. Norse mythology also has this dichotomy. Evil dead people are taken to Hel by Hel and righteous people are allowed to go to the hall of heroes.

That is your opinion. Mine is that the fact that Jesus mentions it makes it a divine fact. Is it possible for Pagan societies to know divine fact? Of course. Those people had to come from somehwere and most likely brought their knowledge with them from when God was better known. Where did Abraham get his knowlege of God? It wasn't all from talking to Him I am sure.

So why would you think that definition is any better than our current one. No doubt that definition arises from the culture and sounds pretty synonymnous with buried. The concept is the same. Bad people were buried in caves out of sight so that their names wouldn't even be remembered. Our society is more egalitarian. You could be buried near an axe murderer these days. In colonial times the righteous were buried in the church graveyard.

Merriam-Webster: 1 a (1) : a nether world in which the dead continue to exist

Notice that the first definition leaves out the ecclesiastical baggage but falls short because it doesn't describe it as a place of fire.

This is a bit obsequious on your part. Jesus may have been speaking directly to his disciples but his proscriptions are general ie the use of the word "everyone." Jesus did not provide a timeframe for judgement in Mat 5. I can't see any case for immediacy from this verse.

 

[Muffled]

Interesting piece, but you say a person experiences this place. The scriptures never allude to any experience of anything in death. the scriptures say when youre dead youre dead. Nothing more nothing less. You dont experience or remember or think anything because youre dead. Purgatory is unscriptural too.

Psalms 6:5 - For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave [hebrew: sheol] who shall give thee thanks (8686)?

If there is no remembrance in death and when in death you are in sheol theres no room for purgatory or hell.

You took the phrase "there is no remembrance of thee" and changed it into "there is no remembrance." By doing so you alteed scripture to totally chage its meaning. The meaning is not that the dead dont remember but that the dead are not remembered.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; In Sheol who will laud you?
See also: Psalm 13:3; Psalm 115:17; Psalm 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5,10

 

[AK4]

Jesus words at Matt 5:22, 18:8,9 about everlasting hell fire has brought people to connect fire with hell. The 'Greek word' translated as not just hell but hell fire is the word 'Gehenna'. Gehenna was a garbage dump were things were destroyed and not kept alive burning forever. So, the hellfire (Gehenna) of Matthew is a fitting symbol of destruction not torture.
John 3:16 (perish/ destroyed).

Although some translations HAS MADE gehenna "hell fire" that doesnt make it a proper translation and it isnt, but thats a mute argument because you are still equating this "hell fire" as "everlasting(ly)" destroyed or perished. This the exact condition Jesus wants everyone so He can save them. Besides everlasting is not a proper translation either. Also this "hell fire" is for purifying not to destroy. Notice this verse


1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Yes, hell fire concept is of pagan origin

So is the pagan concept of annihilation or annihilationism. Here is something for your "perished or destroyed" theory

A second key word is apollumi, which emerges in our translations as "destroy". This is an important word, for many annihilationists like Pinnock and Fudge actually see it as favoring annihilation (Matt. 10:28; 2 Thess. 1:9; Phil. 3:19).

But the meaning of this word and those related to it does not refer to "destruction" in the modern sense that that word is used for the annihilation of something. Rather, it is closer in meaning to the way we use "destroyed" to mean ruined or lost, as in, "He destroyed his family with his drug habit." Lest there be any doubt, take a look at some verses where the same Greek word is used, and ask youself: Were any of the items in question annihilated? [Fern.CQAH, 41]

• Mt. 10:6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.
• Mt. 12:14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.
• Mt. 26:8 When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. "Why this waste?" they asked.
• Luke 15:24, "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found."
• Luke 19:10 "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

Other words are used of the "destruction" of the wicked - an example being 'kataphtheiro' in 2 Peter 2:13 --- translated as "utterly perish". Paul also uses "apollumi" in 1 Cor. 15:18, translated "perished

".
Although i dont agree with everything this guy wrote, he shows it right here about the "destroyed or perished"

 

[AK4]

You took the phrase "there is no remembrance of thee" and changed it into "there is no remembrance." By doing so you alteed scripture to totally chage its meaning. The meaning is not that the dead dont remember but that the dead are not remembered.

Oh really?!! Or is it you who doesnt "rightly divide the word" and not know that "no scripture is of its own interpretation" and that "everything is established by two or three witnesses" and know when you take that psalm verse and "compare spiritual with spiritual" you get to know what a scripture means

Ecc 9:10 Whatever comes to your hand to do with all your power, do it because there is no work, or thought [intelligence/reason], or knowledge, or wisdom in the place of the dead to which you are going.

"For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything…" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Ps 146:4 - His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
"Let me not be ashamed, O Lord; for I have called upon you: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave [Heb: sheol]"(Psalm 31:17).

"For the grave [Heb: sheol] cannot praise Thee, death can not celebrate Thee: they that go down in to the pit cannot hope for Thy truth"(Isa. 38:18).

Etc Etc etc.

Now did i alter scripture or did you just say what you said because you didnt know scripture? I thought not.

 

[AK4]

[
"tortured in fire" is a doctrine not a translation. If the passage says **** of fire, does that descibe the grave? Have any of the graves you have visited, spouted fire out of their bowels or feel any hotter than any other place?

Hades was not just a place for the dead but two places: one place of fire for the wicked and a place of paradise for the righteous. Norse mythology also has this dichotomy. Evil dead people are taken to Hel by Hel and righteous people are allowed to go to the hall of heroes.

Show me a scripture, not a translation, that says this hades is a place of fire or a place of paradise. I wont hold my breath

That is your opinion. Mine is that the fact that Jesus mentions it makes it a divine fact. Is it possible for Pagan societies to know divine fact? Of course. Those people had to come from somehwere and most likely brought their knowledge with them from when God was better known. Where did Abraham get his knowlege of God? It wasn't all from talking to Him I am sure.

So i guess the admonition from God to "not learn the way of the heathen" means nothing huh? Yeah there may be some things they had brought that may have some truth in it, but MOST of the stuff we were not to learn or believe or practice. Besides its not my opinion this is what the scriptures teach not me. And the scriptures do show Abram speaking to God.

So why would you think that definition is any better than our current one. No doubt that definition arises from the culture and sounds pretty synonymnous with buried. The concept is the same. Bad people were buried in caves out of sight so that their names wouldn't even be remembered. Our society is more egalitarian. You could be buried near an axe murderer these days. In colonial times the righteous were buried in the church graveyard.

The "righteous" right? Who determines who righteous? Man or God? Does man know another mans heart and mind like God? So this "church" "righteous" graveyard argument is nothing.

Merriam-Webster: 1 a (1) : a nether world in which the dead continue to exist

Notice that the first definition leaves out the ecclesiastical baggage but falls short because it doesn't describe it as a place of fire.

How about both being wrong. The bible dont teach that the DEAD continue to exist. If the dead continue to live THEN THEYRE NOT DEAD, but living. And if they are living then there is absolutely no need to RESURRECTED back to LIFE. Can you see how utterly foolish that definition is?

This is a bit obsequious on your part. Jesus may have been speaking directly to his disciples but his proscriptions are general ie the use of the word "everyone." Jesus did not provide a timeframe for judgement in Mat 5. I can't see any case for immediacy from this verse.

So the rest of the Scriptures to figure out the "immediacy" of this judgment [for the elect] doesnt say anything on this. Heres just one that flat out says it


1Pe 4:17 - For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

[lockyfan]

Although some translations HAS MADE gehenna "hell fire" that doesnt make it a proper translation and it isnt, but thats a mute argument because you are still equating this "hell fire" as "everlasting(ly)" destroyed or perished. This the exact condition Jesus wants everyone so He can save them. Besides everlasting is not a proper translation either. Also this "hell fire" is for purifying not to destroy. Notice this verse

Gehenna or the Valley of Hinnom, is mentioned twelve times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. In the days of Jesus Christ on earth it was a fiery place and, being a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem, it was on earth. It became a symbol of the worst punishment that could befall a person. For instance, in Matthew 5:22, in his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt [Raca] will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Thus Jesus grades the “fiery Gehenna” as third and worst. Why? Because the one who called another a despicable fool and who was sentenced to the fiery Gehenna is put to death and not given a burial. His corpse is burned up in the fires of Gehenna and the ashes are never collected for preserving in an urn. So he was pictured as not going to Ha′des.

A few verses later on in the same Sermon on the Mount Jesus shows that the sinner’s corpse is thrown into Gehenna as a crematory. In Matthew 5:29, 30 Jesus says:

“If, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Gehenna. Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you [not, torment it]. For it is more beneficial for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to land in Gehenna.”

From this language we see that Jesus used in a symbolical manner the ancient Gehenna that was located outside the walls of Jerusalem. Jesus did not mean that his followers should pluck out a literal eye or chop off a literal right hand. Rather, Jesus was talking about something precious that causes us to sin with the right eye or the right hand. Accordingly, then, as the eye and right hand were spoken of symbolically, Gehenna must also have been spoken of in a symbolical way, not literally.

Notice how Jesus contrasts one’s being thrown into Gehenna with one’s entering into life. This indicates that the symbolical Gehenna is a place of no life at all. In Matthew 18:8, 9 Jesus said: “If, then, your hand or your foot is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you; it is finer for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to be thrown with two hands or two feet into the everlasting fire. Also, if your eye is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you [not, torment it]; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Gehenna.” In this “fiery Gehenna” is where the “everlasting fire” burns, symbolically speaking.

Regardless of what any reference authorities have to say regarding Gehenna, what did Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have to say about it? What did it mean for the person sentenced by God the Almighty to the symbolical Gehenna? Jesus plainly answered when he sent his twelve apostles out on missionary work and said: “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Matt 10:28

1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Gold, silver and precious stones endure through flames, but wood, hay and stubble do not. Likewise works of which God approves are not destroyed by his judgments, but erroneous doctrines and works cannot stand before Jehovah’s fiery tests. If the one performing these latter works is prepared to suffer the loss of them when confronted by counsel or judgment from God’s Word of truth, then he will be saved by this cleansing, as though by fire. The Christian minister in his planting and watering work needs to watch how he works, that he builds with durable materials, doing all things in harmony with the truth and according to the example set by Christ Jesus.


And just like the world that was in existance in Noahs day was destroyed by flood but still remained, this world or system is stored up for firey judgement

2 Peter 3:5-7
For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men

Fiery destruction. Fire equals destruction not eternalo torment

 

[AK4]

Gehenna or the Valley of Hinnom, is mentioned twelve times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. In the days of Jesus Christ on earth it was a fiery place and, being a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem, it was on earth. It became a symbol of the worst punishment that could befall a person. For instance, in Matthew 5:22, in his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: “Everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; but whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt [Raca] will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Gehenna.” Thus Jesus grades the “fiery Gehenna” as third and worst. Why? Because the one who called another a despicable fool and who was sentenced to the fiery Gehenna is put to death and not given a burial. His corpse is burned up in the fires of Gehenna and the ashes are never collected for preserving in an urn. So he was pictured as not going to Ha′des.

A few verses later on in the same Sermon on the Mount Jesus shows that the sinner’s corpse is thrown into Gehenna as a crematory. In Matthew 5:29, 30 Jesus says:

“If, now, that right eye of yours is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is more beneficial to you for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to be pitched into Gehenna. Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you [not, torment it]. For it is more beneficial for one of your members to be lost to you than for your whole body to land in Gehenna.”

From this language we see that Jesus used in a symbolical manner the ancient Gehenna that was located outside the walls of Jerusalem. Jesus did not mean that his followers should pluck out a literal eye or chop off a literal right hand. Rather, Jesus was talking about something precious that causes us to sin with the right eye or the right hand. Accordingly, then, as the eye and right hand were spoken of symbolically, Gehenna must also have been spoken of in a symbolical way, not literally.

Notice how Jesus contrasts one’s being thrown into Gehenna with one’s entering into life. This indicates that the symbolical Gehenna is a place of no life at all. In Matthew 18:8, 9 Jesus said: “If, then, your hand or your foot is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you; it is finer for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to be thrown with two hands or two feet into the everlasting fire. Also, if your eye is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you [not, torment it]; it is finer for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Gehenna.” In this “fiery Gehenna” is where the “everlasting fire” burns, symbolically speaking.

Regardless of what any reference authorities have to say regarding Gehenna, what did Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have to say about it? What did it mean for the person sentenced by God the Almighty to the symbolical Gehenna? Jesus plainly answered when he sent his twelve apostles out on missionary work and said: “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” Matt 10:28


Gold, silver and precious stones endure through flames, but wood, hay and stubble do not. Likewise works of which God approves are not destroyed by his judgments, but erroneous doctrines and works cannot stand before Jehovah’s fiery tests. If the one performing these latter works is prepared to suffer the loss of them when confronted by counsel or judgment from God’s Word of truth, then he will be saved by this cleansing, as though by fire. The Christian minister in his planting and watering work needs to watch how he works, that he builds with durable materials, doing all things in harmony with the truth and according to the example set by Christ Jesus.


And just like the world that was in existance in Noahs day was destroyed by flood but still remained, this world or system is stored up for firey judgement

2 Peter 3:5-7
For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men

I will get to this later because my point below should make you think again about this.

Fiery destruction. Fire equals destruction not eternalo torment

Fire equal destrustion huh?

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Heb 12:29 - For our God is a consuming fire. [/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]1Jo 4:8 - ... God is love. [/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]So God is a consuming fire and God is love. Now how would and could this both fit with your interpretation of gehenna? It doesnt. Eternal torment is not love. Eternal annihilation of someone is not love for that person either. So you really need to rethink your interpretation of gehenna because if God eternally annihilates someone then that is not love.[/FONT]

 

[URAVIP2ME]

2nd Peter 3:9 B says: God is not willing any should perish or be destroyed, but 'all' repent.

If destruction or perishing was salvation they why would God want anyone to repent and not be saved?

God loved Adam enough to give him the gift of life with its gift of free will to obey or disobey. Disobey means death. Disobey is not love of God.

God does not disobey himself. Jesus nor Job disobeyed God.
1st Peter 2:21 says Jesus is our example or model to follow in his footsteps.
Wouldn't that mean obedience to God as Jesus was obedient?

So if a person chooses disobedience they are choosing death.
A 'second' death of no hope of future life anywhere in heaven or on earth.
Even hell dies a symbolic second death after all in hell are 'delivered up' from hell according to Rev 20:13,14. Those of Matt 12:32 and Heb 6:4-6 are not in hell they are already in Gehenna with no hope of being delivered up.

 

[AK4]

2nd Peter 3:9 B says: God is not willing any should perish or be destroyed, but 'all' repent.

If destruction or perishing was salvation they why would God want anyone to repent and not be saved?

God loved Adam enough to give him the gift of life with its gift of free will to obey or disobey. Disobey means death. Disobey is not love of God.

God does not disobey himself. Jesus nor Job disobeyed God.
1st Peter 2:21 says Jesus is our example or model to follow in his footsteps.
Wouldn't that mean obedience to God as Jesus was obedient?

So if a person chooses disobedience they are choosing death.
A 'second' death of no hope of future life anywhere in heaven or on earth.
Even hell dies a symbolic second death after all in hell are 'delivered up' from hell according to Rev 20:13,14. Those of Matt 12:32 and Heb 6:4-6 are not in hell they are already in Gehenna with no hope of being delivered up.

Okay just to put this to rest-- a second death right? "A 'second' death of no hope of future life anywhere in heaven or on earth."

So we established they are dead/annihilated forever right? No more existence, no more chance at life. Right?

But wait we have verses like this

Ho 13:14 -Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol [ greek hades, english hell] ? Shall I redeem them from death? O Death, where are your thorns? O Sheol, where is your sting?


1Co 15:55 - "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

Re 20:14 - Then death and Hades [hebrew sheol, english hell] were thrown into the lake of fire[our God is a consuming fire] . This is the second death, the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death and thrown into the consuming fire which is God?

So they are thrown into God, consumed and then what?

You say annihilated, in otherwords no more life, dead forever, deceased, no nothing, no awaking, dead dead dead.

But what does the scriptures say? death is defeated, no more death. The opposite of death is life.

The people, death, hades, sheol, satan and his minions all thrown into the lake of fire the second death and they all are defeated. If death has no sting, has no victory, then by default, thats means they all have life.

Sorry no annihilation. Unless you believe in contradictions.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Neither of the verses ( Ho13:14; 1 Cor 15:55) have to do with second death but the death inherited from Adam or Adamic death. So does 1Cor 15:26 naming our last enemy.

Re20:13,14 emptied-out death and hades (hell) are destroyed in second death. Hell or hades is destroyed only after all in there are 'delivered up' . Then emptied-out hell/hades the common grave no longer exists that is why Rev 21:4 can state that death will be no more. No more death after the destruction of death and hell/hades.
Even Satan is destroyed. -Hebrews 2:14 B.

 

[Muffled]

Oh really?!! Or is it you who doesnt "rightly divide the word" and not know that "no scripture is of its own interpretation" and that "everything is established by two or three witnesses" and know when you take that psalm verse and "compare spiritual with spiritual" you get to know what a scripture means

Ecc 9:10 Whatever comes to your hand to do with all your power, do it because there is no work, or thought [intelligence/reason], or knowledge, or wisdom in the place of the dead to which you are going.

"For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything…" (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Ps 146:4 - His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
"Let me not be ashamed, O Lord; for I have called upon you: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave [Heb: sheol]"(Psalm 31:17).

"For the grave [Heb: sheol] cannot praise Thee, death can not celebrate Thee: they that go down in to the pit cannot hope for Thy truth"(Isa. 38:18).

Etc Etc etc.

Now did i alter scripture or did you just say what you said because you didnt know scripture? I thought not.

Yes, You altered scripture. You ought to know me well enough to know that I know scripture.

This is true. I interpret scripture by the Spirit of God. Who do you interpret scripture by? I agree that a verse can't be taken out of context without changing its meaning which is the true meaning of this verse, not that you can hunt up any old scripture you think will support an illegitimate interpretaion.

Are you going to contend that Solomon is talking about life after death? Solomon is talking about the common sense of observation. When you observe a dead body it is completely inactive.

This by Isaiah is also observational.

I am sure the old testament is filled with the observations of men but we also have the testimony of Jesus who knows the spiritual reality of life after death:

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried. 23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Luke 16:22-24 is a parable or illustration it is Not literal.

Please notice the setting or background in verses 13,14 is for the religious leaders, the Pharisees, they heard Jesus, and in verse 15 Jesus says unto the Pharisees then he gives the illustration or parable.

King Solomon, known for his God-given wisdom, was not the only one that thought the dead know not anything- Ecc 9:5. Don't the Psalmists also agree with Solomon?
Psalm: 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4 Isn't that why Jesus likened being dead to being in a deep sleep-like state at John 11:11-14 ? Jesus knew then that he would be unconscious or in a deep sleep-like state while he was in hell- Acts 2:27,31.