The Sociopath in the Sky

[dawny0826]

I don't understand it; how can you say you have freewill, the freedom of choosing, but at the same time you'll go to hell if God doesn't have it his way?

How are you defining God's way, Sum? Mind you, I can only answer these questions from my own perspective.

Per the Word, God's "way" is love, charity, forgiveness and kindness. Per the Word, God is a God who cares so much for us that He keeps His promises and promised never to leave us - to always be there to guide us and help us choose.

If you want to talk about enslavement - you might want to focus on the adversary. The adversary has already been defeated and KNOWS it.

I can't help but see this God of Abraham as a baby - kicking and screaming that it has to be his way. Or maybe a sociopath: He'll punch you in the face, apologize and tell you it was for the best, and he'll convince you that he's nice and caring until you put trust back in him, and once again he'll punch you in the face, rinse and repeat.

Sure. Only, He came to mankind in the flesh and died for our shortcomings so that we could overcome hell. That sounds totally sociopathic to me.

Christ Jesus, who many of us belive to have been God in the flesh clearly fit the description of sociopath, huh?

He tells you that you can do whatever you want, but really you can't. It's wordplay: you can do whatever you want, but you aren't allowed to do certain things. Then he sets up temptations for all of these things, you are circled in these temptations but you have to control yourself as he keeps making it harder and harder for you like a damn drill sergeant.

He gave us His Word as a way to live, a way to know him, a way to learn. He also gave us the in-dwelling of His spirit.

I can't relate to this "damn drill sargeant" that you speak of. The God that you seem so angry with, whispers lovingly to my spirit, daily.

A mobster holds a gun to your head and says "You are free to choose whether or not you give me all of your money, but if you choose not to I'm going to shoot you." Hahaha, isn't that EXACTLY how it is with God? "You can murder as many people as you want, but we're going to take you to prison." Never heard a sane law enforcer say that.

Read the Word closely. When did God ever warrant death that wasn't justified? Everything that God commanded was for the good of His people.

To live for God is to desire to live according to Christ's example. When sin overwhelms - God is there to direct if one allows Him to.

You get into a car accident and break both of your legs, but God tells you "I saved your life, you only broke your legs, but I stopped you from dying." You don't thank him, you don't worship him, you don't trust him. You pluck out his eyes and kick him in the throat, and demand a reason why he allowed you to break your legs with the same power he allowed you to keep your life, or why he even didn't use that power to prevent a car crash at all! Even knowing that he's going to punish you more.

When did God promise us that life was going to be easy? He never did, Sum. Life isn't easy for anyone.

What He promised is that if one believes - they'd have everlasting life. Faith is to rejoice while in the throes of storm and in the midst of pain, rejoicing that what's to come is the reward.

When we trust during the greatest struggles - the triumph is through our testimony as we become a living testimony for the kingdom of heaven.

There's a God above us, telling people that in time things will get better, but they only do temporarily, until you put your trust into him, that's when they'll start to get worse again. He demands you to love him, threatens you if you don't. He promises peace and serenity but he is a Canaanite war god.

I assure you that God isn't threatening you. Whether or not you follow is solely your choice.

If we're all created in God's image, and we're born a sinner, then God himself is a sinner. If we are supposed to be peaceful, why did he make us with wrathful nature?

He didn't. He made us perfect. Man chose sin.

Don't front as if wrath and hatred are the only facets to humanity. We are not able to achieve perfection, but, we can STRIVE to be Christ like.

Freewill has nothing to do with any of this - it's entirely God's fault, because we have very little freewill compared to our emotions, personality, instincts, desires... all of that came with us, all of that is God-given, and all of that controls our behavior.

Cop-out. He's not forcing you to do anything.

Back to the scenario with the mobster and the gun to your head - just burn the money and expect the worse. In order to make God lose, you have to lose as well.

I sincerely wish you all the best.

 

[kashmir]

Perhaps those who wrote holy books, do not "know" God as much as they claim to know?
Seems like a logical explanation to me.
We have two choices, either blindly follow all the contradictions written by man, or make our own decisions.

 

[dawny0826]

Perhaps those who wrote holy books, do not "know" God as much as they claim to know?
Seems like a logical explanation to me.
We have two choices, either blindly follow all the contradictions written by man, or make our own decisions.

Either way, you're exercising free will.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

God is not at all like a sociopath. On the contrary, God gives each person what they desire. not what He would have desired for them. If someone wants to live in love and peace with God that is His will. If someone wants to live in rebellion to God , they will have their wish.

and later face the consequences?

God also cares enough about humanity to take our rebellion seriously. He calls us to account for our actions, because it matters to him that we treat him, and other people, so poorly. But he won’t let such harmful rebellion go on forever.

I'm not sure if you could say it's because he cares about humanity, but because he cares about his rep.

The sentence God passes against us is entirely just, because he gives us exactly what we ask for. In rebelling against God, we are saying to him, “Go away. I don’t want you telling me what to do. Leave me alone.” And this is precisely what God does. His judgement on rebels is to withdraw from them, to cut them off from Himself—permanently. But since God is the source of life and all good things, being cut off from him means death and hell. God’s judgement against rebels is an everlasting, God-less death.

What if someone wants to follow orders, but also wants life?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You are in good company. Jesus called the God of the Old Testament a liar and a murderer who has no truth in him whatsover.

I've always liked Jesus. But I didn't care for the OT God, nor the NT God. But the lesser evil is definitely NT.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Perhaps those who wrote holy books, do not "know" God as much as they claim to know?
Seems like a logical explanation to me.
We have two choices, either blindly follow all the contradictions written by man, or make our own decisions.

The latter choice sounded pretty nice

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Perhaps those who wrote holy books, do not "know" God as much as they claim to know?
Seems like a logical explanation to me.
We have two choices, either blindly follow all the contradictions written by man, or make our own decisions.

Yep, always been for the latter. It annoys me to think of Yahweh getting in the way of that though.

 

[dawny0826]

Yep, always been for the latter. It annoys me to think of Yahweh getting in the way of that though.

Really?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I've always liked Jesus. But I didn't care for the OT God, nor the NT God. But the lesser evil is definitely NT.

I am just glad you can discern the difference between the two. Most people don't.

 

[Sir Doom]

Its 6 one way half-dozen the other.
When a person 'blindly' follows scripture they are making a choice, as well. Its really no different.

 

[savagewind]

In this thread I mentioned that it's not what people do, as many claim. It's entirely God's doing. He made the environment to tempt us, and on top of that he made us all with a sinful mind. He promises you redemption, he promises you answers to prayers, but in all honesty you shouldn't even have to beg for redemption, you shouldn't even have to pray for help or guidance.

I look at God and see a man who creates evil and waits for us to worship him, kiss his toes and beg him to bring it down. Well, instead of bringing it down, he lessens it, just enough to make him look like a hero, just enough for humans to put trust and love and worship to him. He smacks you in the face, tells you that it was for your own good, and convinces you to trust him again, and once you do that the smack comes right back... rinse and repeat.

How can't you see this evil man dressing up like a superhero? He's the ultimate narcissist, he's got a big superiority complex, and that is evident by the mere fact he forces you to put him above everything else.

And yes, I do mean forces you. If you actually had the freewill to choose whether or not you follow or worship God, he would not threaten hellfire!

It is true a God made the mind and it is sinful but that is as far as God's participation in sin goes. Man sins. Man made up the story of hell fire.

Narcissist? I have never heard anything about God which might fit the bill. Can you give an example please?

What does "follow God " mean please?

What is your opinion on what God means by "worship" God? And can you give an example.

 

[kashmir]

Its 6 one way half-dozen the other.
When a person 'blindly' follows scripture they are making a choice, as well. Its really no different.

Choice to follow the contradictions isn't so much of a real choice, ones decision making pretty much ends there.

 

[savagewind]

You are in good company. Jesus called the God of the Old Testament a liar and a murderer who has no truth in him whatsover.

What does Deuteronomy 18:15 mean please?
Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.

Is this YAHWEH the "God of the Old Testament" who you say Jesus called a liar and a murderer?

The prophet mentioned who will be raised up by YHVH. Who is it?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So have I, I've reached it many times and always shrugged it off. I curse at God, but then forget all about it. And after a while, I'll thank him for the good things, only to get knocked back down by him the next day. I'm really getting sick of the big guy, even if I don't believe in that God concept. The fact people actually trust him... the fact that people actually call that THING a God is what I don't get, and it enrages me that somewhere, the tulpa of Yahweh is enjoying all of the worship he's getting from his slaves with black and blue faces.

I think Yahweh does exist but is a tribal god that has developed an out of control ego. He's also not half as powerful as he wants you to believe.

 

[Sir Doom]

Choice to follow the contradictions isn't so much of a real choice, ones decision making pretty much ends there.

I don't follow.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

What does Deuteronomy 18:15 mean please?
Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.

Is this YAHWEH the "God of the Old Testament" who you say Jesus called a liar and a murderer?

The prophet mentioned who will be raised up by YHVH. Who is it?

Obviously when you read it in context it is either speaking of Joshua of Nun or King Josiah who introduce the Deuteronomic Reforms. Deuteronomy was written centuries after the death of Moses.

Yes, it is pretty obvious that Jesus is calling Yahweh a murderer and a liar.

"You belong to your father the devil, and you want to do what he wants (i.e. you obey his Laws). He was a murderer from the beginning (the Flood)and was against the truth (Yahweh lied to Adam and Eve), because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks his native tongue, because he is a liar and the father of lies."

 

[The Sum of Awe]

How are you defining God's way, Sum? Mind you, I can only answer these questions from my own perspective.

That's totally fine, I respect all perspectives to join in, and am very thankful for each person who participates in my threads.

By God's way I mean what we can tell of it by how reality is.

If you want to talk about enslavement - you might want to focus on the adversary. The adversary has already been defeated and KNOWS it.

I've never seen an example of the adversary enslaving anyone. And I can't think of how he can presently if he's been defeated, or even how God allows him to.

Sure. Only, He came to mankind in the flesh and died for our shortcomings so that we could overcome hell. That sounds totally sociopathic to me.

Jesus and God seem two unique characters, I don't see much that they agree on. But honestly, if God actually wanted us to overcome hell, if he really cared about us getting into heaven, hell wouldn't exist in the first place.

Read the Word closely. When did God ever warrant death that wasn't justified? Everything that God commanded was for the good of His people.

He could've gotten the goal of the Great Flood done in a more humane manner.

He could've taught those kids some manners instead of making them food for bears for calling a prophet "baldy," or even implanted manners into them (sure, it'd take away some of their freewill, but even the bear scenario took away some of their freewill, so I don't think that's a huge issue here)

The scouts who visited the promised lands in Numbers

Abiram and Korah along with some children for claiming to be as holy as Moses in Numbers 16 27

Uzzah who touched the ark to prevent it from falling apart or something like that.

King Ahazia who turned to Ba'al for health reasons rather than turning to Yahweh

To live for God is to desire to live according to Christ's example. When sin overwhelms - God is there to direct if one allows Him to.

But why give us overwhelming desires to sin in the first place?

When did God promise us that life was going to be easy? He never did, Sum. Life isn't easy for anyone.

Why can't it be? Certainly it could be if God wanted it to be.

What He promised is that if one believes - they'd have everlasting life. Faith is to rejoice while in the throes of storm and in the midst of pain, rejoicing that what's to come is the reward.

Why does one have to believe to have everlasting life? Why does one need faith to rejoice? Why does one need to rejoice?

When we trust during the greatest struggles - the triumph is through our testimony as we become a living testimony for the kingdom of heaven.

But there needn't be struggles. These struggles are, if not created by God, allowed by God. Why does God think he deserves to be trusted after giving us struggles? If anything, I wouldn't trust God even if I could, because he wouldn't deserve it after such brutal struggles.

I assure you that God isn't threatening you. Whether or not you follow is solely your choice.

It's my choice to follow him, but not my choice to follow him without negative consequences. Again, the mafia scenario.

"You have the OPTION of following me, and the option of not following me. But you will go to hell if you choose the second option"

Compared to

"You have the OPTION of giving me your money, and the option of not giving me your money. But you will get shot if you choose the second option"

He didn't. He made us perfect. Man chose sin.

It's not a choice to have urges and temptations, that was encoded in us since the dawn of man. If we were truly made perfect originally, we would never have chose sin in the first place. We've always been corrupt, God's making an excuse, making us believe it's our fault.

Don't front as if wrath and hatred are the only facets to humanity. We are not able to achieve perfection, but, we can STRIVE to be Christ like.

It's in our nature, and God made our nature, thus God made us wrathful.

Cop-out. He's not forcing you to do anything.

How isn't he? Sure, you don't HAVE to follow him, you're fully able to not follow him, but if you go in that path you're living with burdens and are going to hell. It's not much of a choice if he is going to hurt us for choosing something he doesn't want.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think Yahweh does exist but is a tribal god that has developed an out of control ego. He's also not half as powerful as he wants you to believe.

It would make sense too, he was originally a war god, and what war god wouldn't have an out of control ego

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It would make sense too, he was originally a war god, and what war god wouldn't have an out of control ego

Well, apparently the other war deities didn't have such a huge ego as to masquerade as the "one true god" and creator of the universe.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Well, apparently the other war deities didn't have such a huge ego as to masquerade as the "one true god" and creator of the universe.

He refuses to acknowledge the existence of other powers because he is insane. Gnostics call him Samael the Blind God because he cannot acknowledge or see reality and Saklas the Fool or the Mad One because he exhibits insanity.