Yes, I agree. As a Satanist, I view myself as being on the side of the rebel faction that are at war with Yahweh and his allies. It's like the Rebel Alliance vs. the Galactic Empire.
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The Sociopath in the Sky
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Yes, I agree. As a Satanist, I view myself as being on the side of the rebel faction that are at war with Yahweh and his allies. It's like the Rebel Alliance vs. the Galactic Empire.
I don't think so. What news did Joshua or Josiah have apart from what Moses had?
I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.Deut 18:18
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
.The devil is the murderer and liar.
Who are the characters in this scene? Job chapter one. You say YHVH is the liar. Who is Satan?
OK The beginning means the flood. Why doesn't it mean the temptation in the garden?
The serpent lied. What is the connection between YHVH and the serpent?
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
If you read Numbers 11, Yahweh not only promises to feed the people of Israel meat for a month, he lies to them and breaks his promise by sending them poisoned meat for two days. He lied then sent a plague most likely killing some of them.
He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.
"Moses said, “Lord, here are six hundred thousand people standing around me, and you say, ‘I will give them enough meat to eat for a month!’ If we killed all the flocks and herds, that would not be enough. If we caught all the fish in the sea, that would not be enough.”
But the Lord said to Moses, “ Is the hand of the Lord too short? Now you will see if the words I spoke to you come true or not.”
Then later on...
" Then a wind went out from the Lord from the sea, and it blew quail into the area all around the camp. The quail were about  two cubits deep on the ground, and there were quail a day’s walk in any direction The people went out and gathered quail all that day, that night, and the next day. Everyone gathered at least  ten homers, and they spread them around the camp. But the Lord became very angry, and he  struck the people with a terrible plague that came while the meat was still between their teeth]. So the people named that place Kibroth Hattaavah (Graves of Wanting), because there they buried those who wanted other food."
What kind of sane or good God would do something like this?
He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning.
"Moses said, “Lord, here are six hundred thousand people standing around me, and you say, ‘I will give them enough meat to eat for a month!’ If we killed all the flocks and herds, that would not be enough. If we caught all the fish in the sea, that would not be enough.”
But the Lord said to Moses, “ Is the hand of the Lord too short? Now you will see if the words I spoke to you come true or not.”
Then later on...
" Then a wind went out from the Lord from the sea, and it blew quail into the area all around the camp. The quail were about  two cubits deep on the ground, and there were quail a day’s walk in any direction The people went out and gathered quail all that day, that night, and the next day. Everyone gathered at least  ten homers, and they spread them around the camp. But the Lord became very angry, and he  struck the people with a terrible plague that came while the meat was still between their teeth]. So the people named that place Kibroth Hattaavah (Graves of Wanting), because there they buried those who wanted other food."
What kind of sane or good God would do something like this?
First of all who says the meat was poison? You? And second of all have you never heard of jerky? You know? Bird jerky. It's dried meat. I suggest you apologize for your slander to um. Almighty God.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
That's kind of you. I appreciate that.
What specifically do you mean by reality? Our day to day reality? Or reality vs. the unreal?
Well, I have - addiction being the primary example of enslavement. I've had several family members succumb to their addictions and die.
The adversary tempts. In my faith, the adversary tempts and sugar coats. Demonic influence is of the adversary. This is a core piece of my faith. I don't expect anyone else to agree.
I'm a Trinitarian. I believe that God the Father and God the Son are two unique facets of one God. God as Jesus and God as Father have different purposes. Jesus' purpose was to teach us how to live for and commune with God as Father - establishing the parent/child relationship.
Hell doesn't negate that God loved us enough to come to us in the flesh and to implement a plahn for our salvation. I don't believe that it was God's idea for his own angelic creations to rebel against Him and defile the hearts and minds of man.
Hell, in my opinion, was designed to be the punishment for Satan, his brethren (the fallen) and the demonic forces that were brought into the world as a result of their sin and subsequent influence upon man to sin and turn from God.
The bible says that all had become wicked during the time of Noah. Fallen Sons of God were procreating with people - a defilement.
Are these not examples of disobedience? In this time, per the bible, God showed Himself to His people in amazing ways that we haven't seen in our time and yet they still disobeyed.
The majority of people, even those who dismiss God altogether accept that there's consequence for action.
He didn't give any of this. This became par for the course after Eve sinned. What's important is that He provided the means to overcome through Him.
Suffering is par for the course because of sin. You can question God's motives all you want. I hope you find the answers that you're seeking.
Why would you rejoice in God if you didn't believe in Him?
It's as if you negate that which can be done through God, through love, healing, kindness. Are you dismissing that which God allows us to do for his kingdom?
We can drown in sorrow and struggles or we can rise above and be a testimony and light in this world. It's our choice. It's greatly about perspective.
No one can change the fact that the they'll be thrown curve balls in life.
So? If you knowingly break the law, do you have the ability to dictate your penalty?
Man wasn't designed to sin. Adam and Even were made God-like. We were corrupted by our disobedience and our belief in an arrogant, liar who can't have what we have.
God's been straight forward since the beginning because He is truth.
The "devil made me do it" just doesn't fly. We've always had the ability to make the right choice.
I disagree.
I don't understand the concept of fearing hell or resenting God for hell. Why waste your energy contemplating hell. If one doesn't believe in God, why bother believing in hell? Doesn't make sense to me.
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kashmir
Well-Known Member
Seems to not matter to all the millions of people fighting wars right now in his name though, they are convinced he exists and convinced that war is his middle name, at least from my perspective, that is how it looks.
Reminds me of what Tyson said..
"I never seen faith move mountains, but I have seen it bring down buildings and airplanes full of innocent people"
Thana
Lady
- We have free will. If we didn't, We would all believe in God, no?
- You don't go to hell for sinning, Otherwise, We'd all be going to hell.
- He doesn't set up temptation. Where on earth did you get this from? Was it God who offered the apple to Eve?
- Why do you think you deserve your life, Let alone your legs? Why do you deserve this? Tell me what is so great about you that you deserve to have what you want.
The rest is.. interpretation of.. something else, I have no idea. But it's not scriptual.
Perhaps you need to do a bit more research before you come to any more conclusions.
Another rant about some Straw God pieced together from the worst thinking you can find.....Great
Skwim
Veteran Member
No. How does not having freewill necessarily lead to a belief in god?
Password
Member
OP, there are levels of hell and heaven. "On earth" levels as well. One of which that we are all to familiar with is our state of mind. The God we strive to serve is Good. And when we don't...what happens? Some may seek to be good but where does the depths of it end? Sure there are many things that happen we have no control over but along with that there are also many things we do, like asking for protection or awareness and at the same time knowing this is temporary. The will of God does not want us in perplexity and He cannot change. We must endure whatever has been cursed and believe He has provided an escape through His addition.
The confusion most bring to the table has more to do with a perception of knowledge not so deeply sought after and with a sort of fixed definition of the terms and I am no stranger to that. Life is not easy but there sure is a way for it to get there if we stay the course and seek after the wisdom of God.
The confusion most bring to the table has more to do with a perception of knowledge not so deeply sought after and with a sort of fixed definition of the terms and I am no stranger to that. Life is not easy but there sure is a way for it to get there if we stay the course and seek after the wisdom of God.
Thana
Lady
My statement only applies to his hypothetical of God existing.
To play along, let's say we do have freewill. It makes no difference if we can chose, because we're sent to hell for choosing something he doesn't want us to. So, sure we could have the ability to choose our behavior and beliefs, but in the end you still have to pick the right one if you want to make it to heaven.
I always thought it went like: we'd all be going to hell for sinning if it weren't for repentance and worship of God.
How isn't it setting up temptation if he creates the forbidden fruit in the first place? Or, at least, why did he make it forbidden? To relate it to something on earth; the premise of creating the tree of knowledge (which, in itself is ridiculous) and making it forbidden to eat, is less thought through than hanging prison keys up in a prison cell and expect prisoners not to break out.
I don't think I'm deserving of life, but the fact that God put me on earth means God thought I was deserving of life.
And besides, even if that weren't true, that wouldn't even begin to explain why God prevented death but didn't prevent an accident or prevent broken legs.
The rest is.. interpretation of.. something else, I have no idea. But it's not scriptual.
Perhaps you need to do a bit more research before you come to any more conclusions.
I'm not sure what you're referencing as the rest, but I used examples of everyday, observable events. The conclusions I drew in here have all been backed and are open to be debunked. If you have a question on any of them I will be happy to go further in detail.
You have the freedom to choose justifying this post or not justifying this post, but if you choose the latter I'm going to ask you to leave.
Well... at least I'd ask you to.
In God's case, you best use your freewill according to his will, or he'll get the belt out.
Thana
Lady
It's not scriptual, And therefore not really of God or about God.
If you want answers you know where to get them, and it's not from believers who walk their own paths with God.
I personally believe there is only one free will; God's. And we are a spark of God lost in the illusion of separateness. The 'belt' or karma is a self-correcting way to lead one from illusion to truth. Egocentric or selfish behavior is self-defeating; karma is for your own good.
So that's my view from the non-dualist (God and creation are not-two). I'll leave it to intelligent dualists to explain their thoughts on free will.
Admittedly, I'm challenging God's description vs how the world works. In doing so, I found a few errors in Reality A (reality as it is) and Reality B (reality as it is under said God concept). But before I conclude to myself that they are errors, I wanted to see if I could be wrong about them being errors, and what better way to find this out than asking people who believe Reality A is synonymous to Reality B?
Where else would I get them?
So here's my reasoning:
1) God only has freewill (Reason: Given)
2) Man does not have freewill (Reason: God only has freewill)
3) Selfish behavior is self defeating (Reason: Given)
4) An individual cannot prevent himself from performing selfish acts (Reason: Man does not have freewill)
5) People are punished (self-defeated) for something that's not even their fault (Reason: 3 and 4 combined)
If this is correct, then how can karma be for your own good? It's not going to change your behavior in any way if you have no control over your behavior in the first place.
If this is not correct, where did I go wrong?
To make it easier on all of us, I will simplify this with the same debating method previously used:
1) Hell exists (Reason: Given)
2) People are sent to hell (Reason: Given)
3) Not everyone goes to hell (Reason: Given)
4) People are sent to hell for certain behaviors (Reason: Not everyone goes to hell)
5) God creates freewill (Reason: Given)
6) God decides what actions are morally right and morally wrong (Reason: Given)
7) God determines what actions sends people to hell (Reason: God decides what actions are morally right and morally wrong)
8) God determines who goes to hell (Reason: God determines what actions send people to hell)
9) God wants us to do certain things (Reason: Number 7)
10) People want to avoid hell (Reason: Given)
11) People have to use their freewill in a specific way, God's way (Reason: 10)
12) Freewill is pretty much an illusion clouding a threat (Reason: 11)
1) Hell exists (Reason: Given)
2) People are sent to hell (Reason: Given)
3) Not everyone goes to hell (Reason: Given)
4) People are sent to hell for certain behaviors (Reason: Not everyone goes to hell)
5) God creates freewill (Reason: Given)
6) God decides what actions are morally right and morally wrong (Reason: Given)
7) God determines what actions sends people to hell (Reason: God decides what actions are morally right and morally wrong)
8) God determines who goes to hell (Reason: God determines what actions send people to hell)
9) God wants us to do certain things (Reason: Number 7)
10) People want to avoid hell (Reason: Given)
11) People have to use their freewill in a specific way, God's way (Reason: 10)
12) Freewill is pretty much an illusion clouding a threat (Reason: 11)
I think you went wrong on 4) and 5). Man has a free will through the spark of the One that is in him. This free will wants to return to the One. The free will of the soul attempts to lead a man to a higher state. But the body is attracted to things and will act in lower ways to get things. Therein lies the struggle in mortal life. Eventually, through lifetimes, the soul advances through struggles (karma) and will gain greater control of the lower body and a more spiritual person will emerge.
Here is the overview behind all this.
Brahman alone is real. The universe is a great thought-form of Brahman's creative aspect. He pours Himself into this creation and then returns the creation back into Himself. As Krishna says (speaking as the Absolute): I separated Myself from Myself and became all this. We humans are trying to find our way back to the One. Creation is the Lord's play/drama in this view. In the end we will all be successful.