The Staggering Cost of Israel to Americans

[Sunstone]

It's all very well and good to point out how many prizes Jews have won, but have Jews ever done anything to benefit humanity?








(Just kidding)

 

[metis]

Islam is not a race-based religion...

Neither is Judaism.

...preaching that there is a chosen people of God...

The belief is not that God chose us but that we chose God, which actually is a fact.

...and preaching that the rest of humans are nothing more than Gentiles.

Gentiles are viewed as equals as our general belief is that we're all made by God, and there's no indication that we were made to be superior in any way.

Muslims are more than a billion people with different cultures, races ...
Read about the contributions of Muslims to the world...

Demonizing Muslims is a kind of craziness.

Agree on the above, but I don't think CMike was demonizing most or all Muslems.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's all very well and good to point out how many prizes Jews have won, but have Jews ever done anything to benefit humanity?

Ever have chicken soup?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The belief is not that God chose us but that we chose God, which actually is a fact.

The answer strikes me as a bit too glib. So, for example, ...

​

 

[RabbiO]

The answer strikes me as a bit too glib. So, for example, ...

Is it too late to get an aliyah?

Peter

 

[CMike]

Is it too late to get an aliyah?

Peter

Not with a good donation.

 

[Shia Islam]

It's clear that we have lots of emotion-based and absolutely biased replies...

I a nutshell, the strong Israeli lobbies in the US (and in some other countries) made the relationship between Israel and these countries abnormal and absolutely WRONG...

Excuse me to be say it clearly, that the Israelites -who are intelligent people- are known for repeating their major mistakes that have historically caused some backfires in many eras...

 

[metis]

It's clear that we have lots of emotion-based and absolutely biased replies...

I a nutshell, the strong Israeli lobbies in the US (and in some other countries) made the relationship between Israel and these countries abnormal and absolutely WRONG...

Excuse me to be say it clearly, that the Israelites -who are intelligent people- are known for repeating their major mistakes that have historically caused some backfires in many eras...

The close relationship between the U.S. and Israel was solidified for several reasons, including both of us being democratic nations, many Americans living or visiting Israel, religious reasons, military cooperation, many common values, etc.

As far as mistakes, yes, Israel has made some in the past, and undoubtedly will continue to do so at times, but can you name a country that hasn't?

 

[Revoltingest]

The close relationship between the U.S. and Israel was solidified for several reasons, including both of us being democratic nations, many Americans living or visiting Israel, religious reasons, military cooperation, many common values, etc.

As far as mistakes, yes, Israel has made some in the past, and undoubtedly will continue to do so at times, but can you name a country that hasn't?

It seems that the reason we need military cooperation in the mid-east is due to our
relationship with Israel & our misadventures with them, Iraq, Afghanistan & Iran.
If Israel weren't a lightning rod in the region, we could pretty well ignore the area,
avoid Islamic terrorist retaliation, & skip the military conflicts. We could save a
bundle of money.

 

[metis]

The answer strikes me as a bit too glib. So, for example, ...

​

Thanks, but my statement was in regards to history, not scripture. We were the first to embrace and retain a monotheistic belief.

 

[Caladan]

It seems that the reason we need military cooperation in the mid-east is due to our
relationship with Israel & our misadventures with them, Iraq, Afghanistan & Iran.
If Israel weren't a lightning rod in the region, we could pretty well ignore the area,
avoid Islamic terrorist retaliation, & skip the military conflicts. We could save a
bundle of money.

Americans really need to educate themselves. You people truly live in a bubble. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were Israeli adventures. If anything these American oily adventures put our lives on the line. Already when I was 12 I had to go into shelters because ballistic missiles were raining down on my hometown as a result of your first Iraqi tour. So please, don't insult us and take responsibility for your own policies.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thanks, but my statement was in regards to history, not scripture.

...preaching that there is a chosen people of God…

The belief is not that God chose us but ...

Again, the long promoted belief is of a God …

asher bachar banu mikol haamim​

 

[Sunstone]

Ever have chicken soup?

I very strongly suspect the all-powerful, pervasive, and controlling international Jewish lobby put you up to asking such a subtlety insidious question of me. Not that I'm paranoid.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I very strongly suspect the all-powerful, pervasive, and controlling international Jewish lobby put you up to asking such a subtlety insidious question of me.

I can neither affirm nor deny any relationship with any such entity … but I will be watching you chaver.

 

[Revoltingest]

Americans really need to educate themselves. You people truly live in a bubble.

Yes, yes...we've been thru this before.....only you have the truth, & we dim Americastanians
suffer from inadequate education & awareness. And I am among the worst of the lot.
But I've been engaged in our politics since before you were even born. So perhaps instead,
some of you Israelis fail fail to understand our political climate as well as I, eh?

Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan were Israeli adventures. If anything these American oily adventures put our lives on the line.

Perhaps you read too many leftish news sources, since you bought the rationalization
that the wars were over oil. We didn't get any oil from those debacles, nor did we
stabilize the foreign supply, which we don't so desperately need anyway.
There is great political pressure (from Xian politicians & the Xian lobby) here to stabilize
the mid-east for the benefit of Israel, & to prepare for its defense. Moreover, much of
the animosity of the Islamic world for Americastan is due to our support of Israel.

Already when I was 12 I had to go into shelters because ballistic missiles were raining down on my hometown as a result of your first Iraqi tour. So please, don't insult us and take responsibility for your own policies.

If you believe I'm insulting you by stating a different perspective, then you're far too sensitive.
I simply voice my opinions. The fact that Israel does suffer somewhat from our foreign
misadventures is a minor inadvertent glitch in a much larger picture. I notice though that
they don't turn down our large & enduring financial aid.

 

[Caladan]

Yes, yes...we've been thru this before.....only you have the truth, & we dim Americastanians
suffer from inadequate education & awareness. And I am among the worst of the lot.

Well, you might redeem yourself someday after all. Recognizing one's ignorance is a small step towards education. )(

But I've been engaged in our politics since before you were even born. So perhaps instead,
some of you Israelis fail fail to understand our political climate as well as I, eh?

If you mean to say that America has been destabilizing my region and other regions through harnessing resources, instate dictators, or provoking coups. Then yes, America has been at it for a long time, preparing the ground for young Israelis like me to be part of a global geopolitical scheme. After all in the case of Israelis like me it might be OK to be young and stupid in order to get older and become wise. But there is no respect in becoming old and still staying stupid.

Perhaps you read too many leftish news sources, since you bought the rationalization
that the wars were over oil. We didn't get any oil from those debacles, nor did we
stabilize the foreign supply, which we don't so desperately need anyway.

The fact that you failed to gain the oil and resources that you wanted doesn't redeem your geopolitical intentions or interests.

There is great political pressure (from Xian politicians & the Xian lobby) here to stabilize the mid-east for the benefit of Israel, & to prepare for its defense.

If this is truly the major reason you claim it is to be, then let me assure you that it is probably a bigger problem to us than it is to you. Because we are neither Christians, nor do we share any community interest with evangelists. The truth is, I believe that your local crusaders simply hate Arabs more than they love us, and they are glade to use us as the first line of defense and operations against the 'Muslim horde' and in order to establish dominance in the region.

Moreover, much of the animosity of the Islamic world for Americastan is due to our support of Israel.

Of course, because the fact that you toppled their governments, invaded numerous countries in the region, caused the death of many thousands of people, left nations like Iraq ruined and in enduring civil wars simply have nothing to do with it. :sarcastic

If you believe I'm insulting you by stating a different perspective, then you're far too sensitive.
I simply voice my opinions. The fact that Israel does suffer somewhat from our foreign
misadventures is a minor inadvertent glitch in a much larger picture.

Well I do appreciate that you recognize our humble sacrifice in this Game of Thrones, at least as a 'minor glitch'. I guess that if Iraq's Russian made ballistic missiles carried chemical warheads we might be graced with Americans like you upgrading the 'minor glitch' into 'inconvenience'. Very sensitive and respectful.

I notice though that they don't turn down our large & enduring financial aid.

Large financial aid? :biglaugh: your so called large financial aid is like pointing out an eggs carton on a long shopping list which includes fine chardonnay, luxurious cheese, and 10 KGs of prime angus beef. In addition, the 'aid' that you are referring to, is a great marketing stunt by the US, the kind Walmart probably does every Christmas. By giving a holiday voucher to buy certain commodities, they sign certain costumers on a contract that ensures their enduring purchase of their products for years to come in sums of money that make these vouchers look like teen age allowance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The answer strikes me as a bit too glib. So, for example, ...

​

Translation? Lol.

 

[LuisDantas]

Personally, I have yet to be convinced that the very existence of Israel is a good thing in and of itself. It sure does not seem to be doing a lot of good to the Jewish people, despite many of them insisting that it is so. And if it is helping in keeping the Middle East safer, then it sure is doing it in a very roundabout, confusing, and bloody way.

Sorry, but what else can one think when a territory just keeps going on and on about how it needs more and more weapons and military privileges just to exist?

I realize that the situation there is volatile and quite complex. But that is no reason to avoid facing the realities of military races head-on: they solve nothing and create a lot of problems of their own.

If keeping Israel existing and arguably safe is a priority to anyone, then military support is completely the wrong way of doing that. One might try conditioning some of that economic support to diplomatic efforts. Ideally, promoting some sort of exchange program to force feedback between Israeli and Palestinian communities.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you mean to say that America has been destabilizing my region and other regions through harnessing resources, instate dictators, or provoking coups. Then yes, America has been at it for a long time, preparing the ground for young Israelis like me to be part of a global geopolitical scheme.

Americastan's foreign adventurism has indeed been incompetent, irresponsible & destructive for a very long time. (The bad news is that this will likely continue.) But this does not defeat the fact that Israel is our primary interest in the Mid East. So much of our meddling there is because of our support for Israel, & responses to the reactions of other countries for this support. We have a large segment of population (generally Judeo-Xian) which wants Israel there, wants them to stay, sees Islam as a foe, & votes in politicians who pursue this worldview.

After all in the case of Israelis like me it might be OK to be young and stupid in order to get older and become wise. But there is no respect in becoming old and still staying stupid.

Now, now....you (staff) should know our rules against such remarks. There's no need to
be defensive & angry over mere disagreement about the issues. Let's stick to them, eh?

The fact that you failed to gain the oil and resources that you wanted doesn't redeem your geopolitical intentions or interests.

This might be one area where Americastan's usual incompetence does not explain failure to
grab Mid-East oil resources. We simply weren't there to get oil, & took no steps to secure any.
Moreover....
Where Does America Get Oil? You May Be Surprised : NPR

If this is truly the major reason you claim it is to be, then let me assure you that it is probably a bigger problem to us than it is to you. Because we are neither Christians, nor do we share any community interest with evangelists. The truth is, I believe that your local crusaders simply hate Arabs more than they love us, and they are glade to use us as the first line of defense and operations against the 'Muslim horde' and in order to establish dominance in the region.

I don't blame you for our problems, but that isn't really the issue. Note that the OP is simply about the cost of Israel to Americastan. If it helps, think of this entanglement as a cost we create for ourselves, rather than a cost Israel imposes upon us. I don't fault you for the voting habits & lobbying which steers our government in this direction, so you needn't take offense.

Of course, because the fact that you toppled their governments, invaded numerous countries in the region, caused the death of many thousands of people, left nations like Iraq ruined and in enduring civil wars simply have nothing to do with it. :sarcastic

You needn't give me the raised eyebrow over our many sins....I've long argued that this is a major foreign policy problem for us. (I've also voted for more isolationist leaders.) But the reason for our malicious Mid-East meddling & misadventures is the enduring agenda of supporting Israel. I know, I know....stop laughing....astounding as it sounds that you suffer the fallout from our recklessness, this agenda drives the fiasco.

Well I do appreciate that you recognize our humble sacrifice in this Game of Thrones, at least as a 'minor glitch'. I guess that if Iraq's Russian made ballistic missiles carried chemical warheads we might be graced with Americans like you upgrading the 'minor glitch' into 'inconvenience'. Very sensitive and respectful.

One who wants sensitivity & respect ought not be so quick to generally respond to disagreements about issues with ad hom arguments & insults. The "glitch" I referred to is that the violence you experienced was an unintended consequence of our policies & actions.

Large financial aid? :biglaugh: your so called large financial aid is like pointing out an eggs carton on a long shopping list which includes fine chardonnay, luxurious cheese, and 10 KGs of prime angus beef. In addition, the 'aid' that you are referring to, is a great marketing stunt by the US, the kind Walmart probably does every Christmas. By giving a holiday voucher to buy certain commodities, they sign certain costumers on a contract that ensures their enduring purchase of their products for years to come in sums of money that make these vouchers look like teen age allowance.

It seems we both agree that the aid (in all forms) should stop.
You don't appreciate it our measly billions each year, & I prefer to keep them here.

 

[metis]

I so often see remarks about foreign aid that miss the point that we get something back from that aid, plus a great deal of the money ends up coming back here with the purchase of American products. American ships frequently dock in Israel for both refueling and R & R, plus we have weapons systems that are shared along with intelligence gathering.