The term "religion of peace"

[firedragon]

Ignorant is not being able to recognize
absurdities.

Absurdity is to be ignorant but pretend to be not. Like you once said that your clan you call "we" banned "Halal" while you had no clue of what halal even means. Funny really.

 

[Audie]

Absurdity is to be ignorant but pretend to be not. Like you once said that your clan you call "we" banned "Halal" while you had no clue of what halal even means. Funny really.

Well! Color me ignorant of what my clan is,
what a halal is or when i said " we"(?)
nad banned a halal from doing whatever it does.
You sure you are not making that up?

 

[KWED]

Violent people often tell people that they are peace loving.

 

[firedragon]

Well! Color me ignorant of what my clan is,
what a halal is or when i said " we"(?)
nad banned a halal from doing whatever it does.
You sure you are not making that up?

Tell me. What is Halal in Islamic Jurisprudence?

 

[Audie]

Tell me. What is Halal in Islamic Jurisprudence?

IOW, you just made up your claim about
what I said.

 

[firedragon]

IOW, you just made up your claim about
what I said.

So you dont know right? Okay.

So now tell me why do some people claim Islam is the so called "religion of peace"?

 

[Clara Tea]

No following you but, in order to believe both must be reconciled, otherwise the mind is telling the heart what is believed is an absurdity.

Gamblers know very well what you mean. Their mind calculates odds. Yet, their poker sense tells them to bet the inside straight anyway (odds 11:1). Sometimes it isn't easy telling our logical mind what our heart is saying. Nor is it easy to accept logic in the face of a hunch.

Doctor Who once said "One good hunch is worth a cartload of certainties."

However, Las Vegas makes its money by reality catching up to hopes, which, over the long haul, they always do.

 

[Kooky]

Your first post basically labelled critics of Islam as Islamophobes, etc.

No, it did not. Here is the post in question:

"My impression has been that the phrase was initially intended as a defense by Muslims and their rhetoric allies against the usual Islamophobic rhetoric focusing on the issue of jihad and Islam's reputation in the West as a religion for fanatics and terrorists.

Since then it has naturally been appropriated by Islam's worst critics; these days, the only time I see it come up is when people try to back-handedly insert Islamophobia into an argument without coming out and honestly expressing their disgust and hatred towards Muslims."

I was talking specifically about the usage of the phrase "religion of peace" - you know, the actual topic of the OP - and I noted that it was being used specifically as a rhetorical backhand with Islamophobic purpose. I used the phrase "Islam's worst critics", which very heavily implies that there are better critics of Islam who do not use that kind of rhetoric.

So it very much appears to me that you taking offense to my argument is based on either your own frequent usage of a turn of phrase intended to mock and denigrate Muslims, or a failure to closely and comprehensively read my posts.

about half of the first dozen posts are critical of Islam.

Have you seen these posts attacked as Islamophobic? Or are you talking about different posts, in different threads, who were attacked by different people as Islamophobic?

 

[Kooky]

So you don't think that anyone can reasonably criticise an idea they are hostile to?

I think open displays of mockery generally point towards a lack of nuanced engagement with a discussion, yes.
I expect you would follow a similar line of reasoning when people mocked and laughed at your own ideas, even if you would likely fail to draw the obvious parallels.

Obviously, if you have never been critical of Islam

Please don't assume my positions on a different topic than the one under discussion just because you don't like my take on a turn of phrase you seem to like. I find plenty to criticize about the way Muslims practice their religion and justify said practices, but I will not stoop to bigotry.

 

[Audie]

So you dont know right? Okay.

So now tell me why do some people claim Islam is the so called "religion of

 

[Audie]

So you dont know right? Okay.

So now tell me why do some people claim Islam is the so called "religion of peace"?

Nah. You havent addressed the matter of a post
you claim i wrote.

 

[Clara Tea]

Absurdity is to be ignorant but pretend to be not. Like you once said that your clan you call "we" banned "Halal" while you had no clue of what halal even means. Funny really.

I reckon Hal and Al got together to buy a bag of fried pork rinds to munch while watchin' Hee Haw on TV.

All jokes aside, I often shop at a Halal market (Lebonese), and note that the meat tastes better and lasts longer. It is drained of blood (therefore no adrenaline taste from a frightened cow that is injured and dying). With no blood in the meat, the meat lasts longer without rotting.

Many of the Arab foods last longer. For example, the kifir cheese is like Philadelphia creme cheese, but more sour, and it lasts months, as opposed to weeks.

Many of the Arab foods were traded on the spice route from southern Europe to India, so they were made to cart across the burning sands on camel caravans (some still operate today). Before modern refrigeration, foods were preserved, somehow. Some were brined or salted, some were smoked (like lox....smoked salmon), some were bottled, some were mixed with alcohol, and some were dried (like fruit leather). Olives, olive oil, dried herbs, alcoholic beverages, all were from the ancient preserving techniques.

Ancient Jews carried bread dough, but they didn't have yeast as leavin (or other leavin such as levain), nor did they have baking soda and vinegar with them to make soda bread rise. They slapped globs of dough on their backs and the hot desert sun baked it into flat bread (that didn't rise). Today, during Hannuka, unsalted flat bread (essentially saltless soda crackers) are served as a reminder of exodus from Egypt.

Kosher and Halal foods are very similar, and, in a pinch, each culture would eat the food of the other. Kosher food, of course, must be inspected by a rabbi, who would not just say a blessing in Hebrew, but would certify that the kitchen was clean, the staff was properly disinfected, and that the food was ultra-pure. One can't just walk off of the street and hope to volunteer at a Jewish center to prepare food because one must be carefully cleaned and inspected before work is done.

So, food at an Halal market can be trusted. This certification goes well above and beyond mere USDA government inspection. There is a higher power, God, Himself, who determines if food is edible or not.

Gypsies also have very strict dietary restrictions, but they came from a different region originally (India....as DNA recently proved). One time gypsies camped in Death Valley in the winter, and local Inyo County supervisors and the county sheriff felt that it was their duty to move them out (claiming to each other, in private, that gypsies were theives). So they jailed them. They were totally innocent. The sheriff's department served them food in jail, but the gypsies preferred to starve rather than eat food that they considered unfit for human consumption. This was likely a major reason that gypsies largely moved out of the United States and back to Europe again.

Shortly after the gypsy incident, the same sheriff's department abducted a person because he had a large sum of cash (for an upcoming house auction). He missed the auction, and still could not get his money back. He did no crime. He shot at the county jail, deputies surrounded him and shot back, and, in a hail of bullets, murdered him.

My local store had a scandal with halal foods...they were not halal, but they were sold as such. This caused a lot of their customers to stop trusting them. They felt as though they were poisoned.

I know that many Jews feel that pork is trefe (not kosher...horribly disgusting garbage). They would rather eat mud than pork, and because they were brought up with this idea, the mere thought of eating pork would digust them.

We should do our level best to accomodate dietary requirements of other cultures. We should be cognizant of their needs when we incarcerate them.

 

[stevecanuck]

Quran is what is in our hands these days and was recited in the days of Muhammad. It has never been read by the Muslims (of any denomination of Islam) in the chronological order and there is no need to do it. Right?

Regards

It was, by definition, originally taught by Mohamed in chronological order. He received a revelation, and then he passed it on. If that's how Allah presented it to the first Muslims, then clearly it's the order in which He wanted it taught for all time. Men changed it when they compiled the Qur'an. And they did so without Allah's permission.

 

[stevecanuck]

I reckon Hal and Al got together to buy a bag of fried pork rinds to munch while watchin' Hee Haw on TV.

Hah! Good one.

 

[Audie]

It was, by definition, originally taught by Mohamed in chronological order. He received a revelation, and then he passed it on. If that's how Allah presented it to the first Muslims, then clearly it's the order in which He wanted it taught for all time. Men changed it when they compiled the Qur'an. And they did so without Allah's permission.

He said hs got a revelation

 

[stevecanuck]

I have heard the lie many times that 'Islam' is Arabic for 'peace'. It actually means 'submission' or 'surrender'. The word existed before the religion, and would have been used, for example, in a military context.

However, now that the religion has that name, it carries with it the understood meaning of 'submission or surrender to Allah by accepting the Qur'an as His unerring word, and Mohamed as His greatest and last prophet'. The related word 'Muslim' simply means 'one who has surrendered to Allah by accepting ....etc.' The word that actually does mean 'peace' - 'Salaam' - also comes from the same 3-consonant root (slm - س ل م). When used in the context of the religion, it refers to the peace that one achieves by surrendering to Allah.

There happens to be a brilliant sophistry-based propaganda opportunity in this. When the link is made between the words 'peace' and 'Islam', the speaker knows the uneducated listener will assume that it means 'peace' as opposed to 'war', rather than 'peace' in the spiritual sense. And they are more than happy to let the listener so infer.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have heard the lie many times that 'Islam' is Arabic for 'peace'. It actually means 'submission' or 'surrender'. The word existed before the religion, and would have been used, for example, in a military context.

However, now that the religion has that name, it carries with it the understood meaning of 'submission or surrender to Allah by accepting the Qur'an as His unerring word, and Mohamed as His greatest and last prophet'. The related word 'Muslim' simply means 'one who has surrendered to Allah by accepting ....etc.' The word that actually does mean 'peace' - 'Salaam' - also comes from the same 3-consonant root (slm - س ل م). When used in the context of the religion, it refers to the peace that one achieves by surrendering to Allah.

There happens to be a brilliant sophistry-based propaganda opportunity in this. When the link is made between the words 'peace' and 'Islam', the speaker knows the uneducated listener will assume that it means 'peace' as opposed to 'war', rather than 'peace' in the spiritual sense. And they are more than happy to let the listener so infer.

It is the context of the sentence/verse which decides as to in what meaning the root word (slm - س ل م) has been used:

__
أ ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي
"The triliteral root sīn lām mīm (س ل م) occurs 140 times in the Quran, in 16 derived forms:

• six times as the form II verb sallama (سَلَّمَ)
• 22 times as the form IV verb aslama (أَسْلَمَ)
• 42 times as the nominal salām (سَلَٰم)
• five times as the noun salam (سَلَم)
• twice as the noun salm (سَّلْم)
• twice as the noun sullam (سُلَّم)
• once as the proper noun sil'm (سِّلْم)
• twice as the noun salīm (سَلِيم)
• once as the active participle sālimūn (سَٰلِمُون)
• three times as the form II verbal noun taslīm (تَسْلِيم)
• three times as the form II passive participle musallamat (مُّسَلَّمَة)
• eight times as the form IV verbal noun is'lām (إِسْلَٰم)
• 39 times as the form IV active participle mus'lim (مُسْلِم)
• twice as the form IV active participle mus'limāt (مُسْلِمَٰت)
• once as the form IV active participle mus'limat (مُّسْلِمَة)
• once as the form X active participle mus'taslimūn (مُسْتَسْلِمُون)

The translations below are brief glosses intended as a guide to meaning. An Arabic word may have a range of meanings depending on context. Click on a word for more linguistic information, or to suggestion a correction."
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary
Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

It was, by definition, originally taught by Mohamed in chronological order. He received a revelation, and then he passed it on. If that's how Allah presented it to the first Muslims, then clearly it's the order in which He wanted it taught for all time. Men changed it when they compiled the Qur'an. And they did so without Allah's permission.

Kindly elaborate the phrase " by definition ", please.

Regards

 

[firedragon]

Nah. You havent addressed the matter of a post
you claim i wrote.

Alright. So you dont know about that also. It seems like it.

YOu used another word. Infidel. I mean you used it as a method of making an insult.

Can you tell me what "Infidel" as an English term is meant in the Islamic theology?

 

[firedragon]

I reckon Hal and Al got together to buy a bag of fried pork rinds to munch while watchin' Hee Haw on TV.

All jokes aside, I often shop at a Halal market (Lebonese), and note that the meat tastes better and lasts longer. It is drained of blood (therefore no adrenaline taste from a frightened cow that is injured and dying). With no blood in the meat, the meat lasts longer without rotting.

Many of the Arab foods last longer. For example, the kifir cheese is like Philadelphia creme cheese, but more sour, and it lasts months, as opposed to weeks.

Many of the Arab foods were traded on the spice route from southern Europe to India, so they were made to cart across the burning sands on camel caravans (some still operate today). Before modern refrigeration, foods were preserved, somehow. Some were brined or salted, some were smoked (like lox....smoked salmon), some were bottled, some were mixed with alcohol, and some were dried (like fruit leather). Olives, olive oil, dried herbs, alcoholic beverages, all were from the ancient preserving techniques.

Ancient Jews carried bread dough, but they didn't have yeast as leavin (or other leavin such as levain), nor did they have baking soda and vinegar with them to make soda bread rise. They slapped globs of dough on their backs and the hot desert sun baked it into flat bread (that didn't rise). Today, during Hannuka, unsalted flat bread (essentially saltless soda crackers) are served as a reminder of exodus from Egypt.

Kosher and Halal foods are very similar, and, in a pinch, each culture would eat the food of the other. Kosher food, of course, must be inspected by a rabbi, who would not just say a blessing in Hebrew, but would certify that the kitchen was clean, the staff was properly disinfected, and that the food was ultra-pure. One can't just walk off of the street and hope to volunteer at a Jewish center to prepare food because one must be carefully cleaned and inspected before work is done.

So, food at an Halal market can be trusted. This certification goes well above and beyond mere USDA government inspection. There is a higher power, God, Himself, who determines if food is edible or not.

Gypsies also have very strict dietary restrictions, but they came from a different region originally (India....as DNA recently proved). One time gypsies camped in Death Valley in the winter, and local Inyo County supervisors and the county sheriff felt that it was their duty to move them out (claiming to each other, in private, that gypsies were theives). So they jailed them. They were totally innocent. The sheriff's department served them food in jail, but the gypsies preferred to starve rather than eat food that they considered unfit for human consumption. This was likely a major reason that gypsies largely moved out of the United States and back to Europe again.

Shortly after the gypsy incident, the same sheriff's department abducted a person because he had a large sum of cash (for an upcoming house auction). He missed the auction, and still could not get his money back. He did no crime. He shot at the county jail, deputies surrounded him and shot back, and, in a hail of bullets, murdered him.

My local store had a scandal with halal foods...they were not halal, but they were sold as such. This caused a lot of their customers to stop trusting them. They felt as though they were poisoned.

I know that many Jews feel that pork is trefe (not kosher...horribly disgusting garbage). They would rather eat mud than pork, and because they were brought up with this idea, the mere thought of eating pork would digust them.

We should do our level best to accomodate dietary requirements of other cultures. We should be cognizant of their needs when we incarcerate them.

This person I was referring this to, claimed they "Banned Halal". So the question is "what is halal"?

How in the world can someone ban Halal?

Thanks for your post. What you speak of is not what Halal means. It is not Kosher. Its a very generic word.

Thanks.