e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Can you come up with a scripture to negate the scriptures on baptism? Thus far there is no conflict. Where/when do we come into contact with Jesus's blood? - Romans 6:3.
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The thief on the cross: The rule or the exception?
- Thread starter Strength & Honor
- Start date
Doesn't Mark chapter 16 end at verse 8 ?
Unlike the rest of Scripture, there are No corresponding or parallel verses after verse 8.
After verse 8, KJV adds on those verses that are Not part of the original.
Please notice the style of writing changes after verse 8.
The verses after verse 8 are Not in the Vatican 1209; Sinaitic Manuscript; the Syriac codex or Armenian Version, etc.
Both Jerome and Eusebius agreed what was authentic closed with verse 8.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Wow, you're getting resourceful. Impressive. I have heard this. Why did they decide to ultimately include Mark 16:9-16? In either case, Matthew 28:18-20 is still there and Peter still cued off of this parallel scripture to say Acts 2:38. Are we to go around telling everybody to discount Mark 16:9- ?, or just when it disagrees with our beliefs?
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Not negate the Scriptures on Baptism, but that Jesus shed blood was poured out for us for the forgiveness of sins. So be baptized in Jesus' name.
We do not have to come in contact with Jesus blood [Hebrews 9v24]
because Jesus is no longer flesh and blood. 1st Cor 15v50.
We put faith in Jesus shed blood as our ransom. -Matthew 20v28
There are four [4] aspects to baptism:
1] John the Baptist's baptism
2] Water baptism of both Jesus and his followers
3] Baptism into Christ Jesus and into his death
4] Baptism with fire
Romans [6v3] being 'baptized into Jesus death' means being baptized into Jesus death in connection to those that would drink the 'cup' that Jesus drank .
-Mark 10vs38-40. Those are the 'first fruits' and Jesus 'brothers' of 1st Cor. chapter 15. Those are the ones that reign with Jesus as kings and priests.
[Rev. 20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10]
So, baptism into Jesus death is something apart from water baptism which Paul was expressing at Romans 6vs3-5; 1st Cor 15vs31-49. Those joint-heirs with Christ rule as kings and priests over earthly subjects.
-1st Cor 12vs12,13,27; Col 1v18
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Are you serious?! So everyone to whom Paul referred "...those of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death..." were destined to be crucified or otherwise killed?!
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Yes baptism, but baptism does not forgive sin. Only Jesus shed blood did that.
1st John 1v7.
Besides Acts 2v38 also 8v12
Never heard why 9-16 was added on.
We do know Luke wrote at Acts [20vs29,30] that wolf-like clergy would fleece the flock of God.
And there is Jesus illustration that genuine wheat Christians would grow together with fake weed/tares Christians until the harvest time,
or our time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32.
No. Sorry if I gave you that impression.
There is nothing in Revelation [20v6; 14v4; 5vs9,10] to suggest that.
Baptized into Jesus death would be resurrected as Jesus was resurrected to the spirit realm or heavenly life.
God resurrected Jesus not in a physical body but a spirit body.
Those resurrected to heaven will have a spirit body.
Only those that are baptized followers of Christ can have that heavenly hope.
The majority of mankind lived and died before Christ. -John 3v13.
They will have an earthly physical resurrection in fulfillment to God's promise to Abraham about blessings on earth. Genesis 22v18; Rev 22v2.
The 'sheep' of Matthew [25v32] are alive on earth at Jesus time of separation.
That means they can remain alive and keep right on living here on earth right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth.
Besides a heavenly resurrection hope, and an earthly resurrection hope,
there are those living 'sheep' at the time of Matthew [25vs31,32] who need not die.
However, Jesus 'brothers' of verse 40 are the 'brothers' of 1st Cor 15v50.
Jesus 'brothers' are joint-heirs baptized into death meaning they will die and be resurrected to heaven as Jesus was.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Gotto go to work. Catch up with you later. Good talking with you.
Not saying 'those of us' who where baptized.... as meaning all baptized ones.
But KJV 'so many of us as were baptized...'
In other words, 'all of us' that were baptized into his death.
That would mean that not everyone baptized,
but only those baptized into his death. -Mark 10v38.
The 'many' are those of Rom. 6v5 in the likeness of his death/ likeness of his resurrection [spirit resurrection no human body]
Part of that 'many' are Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew [25v40;1st Cor 15v50]
The 'old man' [former] of verse 6 impales his old former unChristian personality so as not to live anymore as serving sin or slave to sin.
The former personality done away with, not the actual person.
Sounds good. Hope I can make myself clear. Hope work goes smoothly for you.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I'm sure it'll be clear once I read it. Thank you.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Confusion throughout.
The kingdom is not of this world...He said so.
Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom.
You might consider that most of what you read in the bible was written by people.....who don't want to die....want this life, forever.....
can't get it through their heads....God is spirit.
The kingdom is not of this world.
Following the Carpenter was granted by the Carpenter.
You cannot undo this.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Mikeymike1991,
I appreciate the tremendous effort you made in educating us. I think this is even longer than my history on baptism. I think what you wrote though is better suited for a new thread, as it relates marginally to this one. Since you made such a great effort, I'll address two topics. The cross, if my history is correct, was invented by the Cartheginians and perfected by the Romans. If it has pagan associations, that's coincidental. I'll agree with Jesus and short hair. It's human nature that people will make Jesus's image reflect their culture, unavoidable.
I appreciate the tremendous effort you made in educating us. I think this is even longer than my history on baptism. I think what you wrote though is better suited for a new thread, as it relates marginally to this one. Since you made such a great effort, I'll address two topics. The cross, if my history is correct, was invented by the Cartheginians and perfected by the Romans. If it has pagan associations, that's coincidental. I'll agree with Jesus and short hair. It's human nature that people will make Jesus's image reflect their culture, unavoidable.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Belief first.
If your hand does anything at all....
It's because you thought you should....
Or because you felt like it.
If your thoughts and feelings are well contained by your beliefs....
no problem.
Sure beliefs affect our actions. Belief in a deity doesn't change our actions much when referring to morality.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Belief in the existence may not, but believing in does.
Actually you're right. It can make them do things they wouldn't usually do. I'd say they're immoral things whereas they'd say they're moral. Example: belief that homosexuality is somehow punishable by god(s)
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Different thread.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You crossed a line, and apparently didn't notice.
Your beliefs are supposed to be up front.
They are the decisions you made BEFORE speaking or acting.
If your belief in God is up front, your speech and deeds will show of it.
You know a tree by the fruit it bears.
Good point ^above^Thief because Jesus did teach us in Matthew chapter 7 to be like good fruit. [good behavior].
Jesus even stressed to us to look for the 'Christ-like love' as true Christian fruit.
Jesus emphasized Christ-like love in his new commandment at John 13vs34,35.