The Thirteenth Amendment and Abortion Rights

[Twilight Hue]

I also disagree with compulsary conscription. (At least they get paid for their service!)

While you're at it, throw in compulsory jury duty as well.

 

[F1fan]

A state-by-state breakdown of abortion laws 2 years after Roe was overturned

Where does abortion stand in your state since Roe v. Wade was overturned two years ago? ABC News has a state-by-state breakdown of abortion laws in the U.S.

abcnews.go.com

There are states with no limits.

So states where the government doesn't infringe on women's reproductive rights. And you believers are completely free to be anti-abortion at the same time. The only difference is that your religious beliefs aren't allowed to be enforced by the government as we see in red states.

 

[F1fan]

Anyone can get an abortion in the US.

For those in ban states, they will need a lot of money to travel and get motels. They will need time off from work. They will need to be lucky they can get an appointment in any clinic that their means allows.

If Trump wins and there's a USA ban, only the wealthy can afford to travel to another country. So "anyone".

 

[crossfire]

For those in ban states, they will need a lot of money to travel and get motels. They will need time off from work. They will need to be lucky they can get an appointment in any clinic that their means allows.

If Trump wins and there's a USA ban, only the wealthy can afford to travel to another country. So "anyone".

If that becomes the case, then women with high-risk pregnancies will probably have to go live in Canada for the duration of their pregnancy.

 

[F1fan]

If that becomes the case, then women with high-risk pregnancies will probably have to go live in Canada for the duration of their pregnancy.

If MAGA security troops allow them to cross the border into Canada. I'm sure they will screen any pregnant woman at airports and question them heavily, and oops, they missed their flight. It could be the case where pregnant women have to get exit visas from the USA, and could be denied. We don't know how far the right wing will go to value a zygote over the female citizen.

I wouldn't be surprized if a national abortion ban comes along with the tracking of pregnant women, and them having to check in. We've already seen republicans in red states want to prevent their female citizens from travelling to free states, much in the way slaves wouldn't be allowed to travel to free states (which are many of the same states).

This would all depend on if republicans get control of the house and senate with Trump as president.

 

[Quintessence]

I've been speaking about forced birth as a form of slavery for some time... because it is. It helps account for the divide between black and white Christians on the matter - blacks understand that forced birth is a form of slavery more immediately than whites for obvious historical reasons. They're more familiar with how pregnancy has been historically weaponized to control and enslave people of color and women just in general.

Kamala Harris’ message to women on ‘freedom’ helps explain why Black and white Christians are deeply divided over support for Donald Trump

The history of Black religious life in the US includes people of all faiths using their beliefs to fight for social justice.

theconversation.com

Public Opinion on Abortion

While public support for legal abortion has fluctuated some in two decades of polling, it has remained relatively stable over the past five years.

www.pewresearch.org

My state became a slave state again this past year and we have no real recourse to correct this. I had my first student almost drop out of college because they couldn't get the medical care they needed in state. There will be others. I'll take the win of her not being dead, but that this disrupted her life as much as it did in the first place wouldn't have been a thing a year or two ago. Instead, the state decides it owns her - tries to enslave her - and she has to flee the state to control her life. Missed weeks of school that she wouldn't have had to if her state hadn't decided slavery was okay. It's evil.

 

[crossfire]

I've been speaking about forced birth as a form of slavery for some time... because it is. It helps account for the divide between black and white Christians on the matter - blacks understand that forced birth is a form of slavery more immediately than whites for obvious historical reasons. They're more familiar with how pregnancy has been historically weaponized to control and enslave people of color and women just in general.

Kamala Harris’ message to women on ‘freedom’ helps explain why Black and white Christians are deeply divided over support for Donald Trump

The history of Black religious life in the US includes people of all faiths using their beliefs to fight for social justice.

theconversation.com

Public Opinion on Abortion

While public support for legal abortion has fluctuated some in two decades of polling, it has remained relatively stable over the past five years.

www.pewresearch.org

My state became a slave state again this past year and we have no real recourse to correct this. I had my first student almost drop out of college because they couldn't get the medical care they needed in state. There will be others. I'll take the win of her not being dead, but that this disrupted her life as much as it did in the first place wouldn't have been a thing a year or two ago. Instead, the state decides it owns her - tries to enslave her - and she has to flee the state to control her life. Missed weeks of school that she wouldn't have had to if her state hadn't decided slavery was okay. It's evil.

Our civil war was over slavery. There is talk of another civil war in the works--do you think that once again, slavery would be the driving cause behind it?

 

[Revoltingest]

I've been speaking about forced birth as a form of slavery for some time... because it is. It helps account for the divide between black and white Christians on the matter - blacks understand that forced birth is a form of slavery more immediately than whites for obvious historical reasons. They're more familiar with how pregnancy has been historically weaponized to control and enslave people of color and women just in general.

Kamala Harris’ message to women on ‘freedom’ helps explain why Black and white Christians are deeply divided over support for Donald Trump

The history of Black religious life in the US includes people of all faiths using their beliefs to fight for social justice.

theconversation.com

Public Opinion on Abortion

While public support for legal abortion has fluctuated some in two decades of polling, it has remained relatively stable over the past five years.

www.pewresearch.org

My state became a slave state again this past year and we have no real recourse to correct this. I had my first student almost drop out of college because they couldn't get the medical care they needed in state. There will be others. I'll take the win of her not being dead, but that this disrupted her life as much as it did in the first place wouldn't have been a thing a year or two ago. Instead, the state decides it owns her - tries to enslave her - and she has to flee the state to control her life. Missed weeks of school that she wouldn't have had to if her state hadn't decided slavery was okay. It's evil.

You better be careful. You're starting to sound
like a libertarian. If you find yourself gushing
over The Prisoner being your favorite TV show,
then it's time to seek professional help.

 

[The Hammer]

Our civil war was over slavery. There is talk of another civil war in the works--do you think that once again, slavery would be the driving cause behind it?

Possibly something along those lines.

https://www.axios.com/2024/09/28/young-men-women-divided-politics-religion

 

[Pogo]

Our civil war was over slavery. There is talk of another civil war in the works--do you think that once again, slavery would be the driving cause behind it?

Maybe we have to go back further to the time that we agreed to not have a national religion after the experience of church state alliances. An imperfect compromise but it had been working and even broadening until recently when some groups decided they wanted their version of their religion.

 

[Copernicus]

If MAGA security troops allow them to cross the border into Canada. I'm sure they will screen any pregnant woman at airports and question them heavily, and oops, they missed their flight. It could be the case where pregnant women have to get exit visas from the USA, and could be denied. We don't know how far the right wing will go to value a zygote over the female citizen.

I wouldn't be surprized if a national abortion ban comes along with the tracking of pregnant women, and them having to check in. We've already seen republicans in red states want to prevent their female citizens from travelling to free states, much in the way slaves wouldn't be allowed to travel to free states (which are many of the same states).

This would all depend on if republicans get control of the house and senate with Trump as president.

We still can't require people to register the guns they own, but we'll sooner see a federal law that requires women to register their pregnancies with the government. Some Republicans have been looking into government access to data on women's periods.

Va. Republicans shelve bill to protect menstrual data from search warrants​

 

[crossfire]

Maybe we have to go back further to the time that we agreed to not have a national religion after the experience of church state alliances. An imperfect compromise but it had been working and even broadening until recently when some groups decided they wanted their version of their religion.

There are atheists who oppose abortion rights. @Clizby Wampuscat is one such person.

 

[Copernicus]

There are atheists who oppose abortion rights. @Clizby Wampuscat is one such person.

And I've known a few other atheists who oppose abortion rights. It always puzzles me, because I can never quite understand why they are so concerned about forcing a woman to give birth, once a pregnancy has begun, rather than to leave that decision to the person who bears responsibility for the child that would result. Do they have some concept of an immaterial soul that possesses a right to be born? @Clizby Wampuscat has not attempted to explain or clarify the basis for that concern, AFAICT. It is possible to be an atheist and still believe in the existence of disembodied or immaterial souls, I suppose.

 

[Revoltingest]

And I've known a few other atheists who oppose abortion rights. It always puzzles me, because I can never quite understand why they are so concerned about forcing a woman to give birth, once a pregnancy has begun, rather than to leave that decision to the person who bears responsibility for the child that would result. Do they have some concept of an immaterial soul that possesses a right to be born? @Clizby Wampuscat has not attempted to explain or clarify the basis for that concern, AFAICT. It is possible to be an atheist and still believe in the existence of disembodied or immaterial souls, I suppose.

Babies tend to arouse emotions.
Emotions tend to interfere with reason.
Even atheists can fall prey to that.
Even believers can be above it.

 

[Copernicus]

Babies tend to arouse emotions.
Emotions tend to interfere with reason.
Even atheists can fall prey to that.
Even believers can be above it.

I can understand that, and people do tend to idealize fetuses as unborn babies. It's in their rhetoric. But @Clizby Wampuscat has expressed a concern that seems to cover even a single fertilized egg that has attached itself in the uterus. It's hard to imagine a single cell as a baby, but our minds are sometimes pretty good at imagining bizarre things.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can understand that, and people do tend to idealize fetuses as unborn babies. It's in their rhetoric. But @Clizby Wampuscat has expressed a concern that seems to cover even a single fertilized egg that has attached itself in the uterus. It's hard to imagine a single cell as a baby, but our minds are sometimes pretty good at imagining bizarre things.

Some people's minds just work in mysterious ways.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do really like the argument, but one has to remember that our current USSC is corrupt and no longer follows the Constitution. They will view it through an antiabortion stance and overturn such a law unless we can fix the court.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do really like the argument, but one has to remember that our current USSC is corrupt and no longer follows the Constitution. They will view it through an antiabortion stance and overturn such a law unless we can fix the court.

"No longer"?
SCOTUS has long been at odds with that "living document".
The current corruption is just the latest flavor.

 

[Quintessence]

Our civil war was over slavery. There is talk of another civil war in the works--do you think that once again, slavery would be the driving cause behind it?

I think that such talk is overblown - that conversation needs to be about the issue of domestic terrorism instead. On a nonviolent front, there are also conversations to be had about the impact of misogyny on domestic and public life. It's bizarrely self-sabotaging.

 

[Pogo]

There are atheists who oppose abortion rights. @Clizby Wampuscat is one such person.

...NC