The trinity debate - Is it monotheism?

[cataway]

Jesus also said himself in plain, undeniable speech that he and the father are One.

he also said at
John 17 :20 "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me."
interesting that Jesus made it a request, of the father, meaning he Jesus had to ask for permission that it might/would happen .
being one with the father ,or in union with ,means that they are in agreement and that all that believe would work together . there is no trinity

 

[sojourner]

he also said at
John 17 :20 "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me."
interesting that Jesus made it a request, of the father, meaning he Jesus had to ask for permission that it might/would happen .
being one with the father ,or in union with ,means that they are in agreement and that all that believe would work together . there is no trinity

No. Jesus is hoping that we will realize our oneness, just as he and the Father are one. Your argument is exegetically and theologically untenable.

 

[Soapy]

And you still don't get us? Pitiful.

Do you propose that the true believer should also ‘believe the lie’ because you say truth believers are ‘pitiful’! There isn’t even a context to your answer. You just threw out insults because you cannot refute the truth... So, what is the context of the ‘pity’ that you claim I said?

Show me where it says that in the doctrine.

I have debated (and discussed!) with MANY MANY Trinitarians and the same doctrine is shown:

• Deny what another trinitarian says if you can’t create your own deception. You just, did exactly that! That’s why I mention it. One staunch trinitarian went from Jesus is God absolutely, to Jesus is man who emptied himself as God but remained God 100%, to Jesus only VEILED his GODSHIP while being man but changed when he did miracles and back to man when he didn’t know things God knew, to Jesus is God and did not die - his Spirit was still alive - only his body died... I pointed out to him that ALL MANKIND die in the body and their Spirit is STILL ALIVE with God (Resting with God: ‘Father, into Thursday hands I commit my spirit’... and he breathed his last!! So you see this one example shows the ultra common theme (doctrine) that I encounter with Trinitarians... the Spirit of God is TRUTH - and Truth does not change! TRUTH CANNOT CHANGE...!

I don't care what other people say. I'm only interested in the orthodox doctrine. You're arguing what people say as if it's the real deal

And this too. Each trinitarian disagrees with all other trinitarian ideologies... you just did exactly what I just said - and you didn’t even know it!!!

I haven't used them. No one I know uses them.

You use them yourself but as I said, it’s your duty to deny them because EVEN YOU can see that they are false ideologies. I pointed out to you in the last two replies... this is the third - Ha! A trinity of evidence... must be ‘God-Inspired’ to reveal to you!!

Doesn't the bible ask, "Where can I flee from your presence?" in reference to God. We are inseparable from God, because we contain God's Spirit. We are not "divided" from God, except in our fantasies and confusion about who we are.

We ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD BY SIN... That is why Jesus is our MEDIATOR...
A judge does not receive PRAYERS directly from the defendant - it goes through a lawyer. God does not receive our prayers directly - they go through the ‘lawyer’, Jesus Christ, who intercedes on our behalf!

Jesus CANNOT BE GOD if he is our INTERCESSOR...

The quote you used is invalid for what you are trying to say. It refers to the universality of the All present God. Can you imagine a system you design.. A perfect system is available to its creator in total at all times... if not then you have a faulty system... the fault here is our SIN that we TRY to hide away from GOD in. But no matter whether in the light of truth or in the darkness of sin God sees us. It would be disaster if we COULD hide from God...!!! But for sure, though we cannot HIDE from God, we can be SEPARATED from him... and we are. That’s why only Jesus can ‘SEE GOD’ and is not separated from him because Jesus has no sin!!! It doesn’t mean Jesus is God because Jesus can see God!!! John says that only the son who is in the bosom of God... the bosom of anyone metaphorically is the position of TRUST and COMFORT: ‘Bosom Buddies’

Who said they could? God spoke (word), and creation happened. The "word" became flesh and lived among us (Jesus).

Congratulations (I mean it!!) Yes, God indeed SPOKE THE WORD and the world was created... Thank you!!!

So now we can see the truth of John 1:1-3.

• In the beginning was God’s word,
• the word was with him (it’s HIS WORD)
  
• And the word was GOD (do you hear it??? The word was ‘GOD’!!!

If you are following then you will see that the term ‘GOD’ means:

• Mighty
• Powerful
• Almighty
• Sovereign
• Heroic
• Noble

So the word that God spoke to create the world was (select as appropriate from above!!)

John 1:1, etc, appears to be deliberately written to be dual use of the word, ‘God’, applying it at one time to the PERSON of God and as a ACCOLADE in the other (there are terms for these but I can’t remember them... I even heard of in a quiz program yesterday!!)

The word made flesh is a totally common phrase. Do we not say: ‘To put FLESH on the bones of an idea!’ (Or similar)

God had a plan that was set out in Genesis.., the seed of the woman!! In time, because no one of humanity - of the seed of Adam, was found to be the sacrificial lamb, GOD ENACTED HIS WORD that he spoke from the beginning (A saviour who would crush the head of the serpent!!)

God PUT FLESH ON THE BONES OF HOS PROPHECY. there is nothing FANTASTICAL IN THIS... it is simply saying that God did what he said he would do...

John 1:1-18, is a SUMMARY... so John summarised that he BEHELD THE GLORY OF THE MESSIAH... the PROMISE OF GOD!!

Jesus was indeed full of grace... undeniably... and he was indeed rejected by those whom he was SENT TO DELIVER SALVATION TO... Jesus did exactly what GOD showed him to do:

• ‘Behold my SERVANT whom I have chosen. I will put my spirit on him and he will fulfil all my desires and bring justice to the nations’ (Isaiah 42:1) (paraphrased - forgive me if it’s not a perfect quote)

We know THIS SERVANT CHOSEN FROM AMING MEN WAS JESUS CHRIST!!!

God would not need to choose GOD as his SERVANT!!! And no sacrifice could be enacted from a person who is incapable of being TEMPTED... and we know Jesus WAS tempted but REFUSED the temptation... but he DID FALTER... can God falter?

• ‘Father, If there could be another way... but your will be done and not mine!’ (Paraphrased)

How can the lamp be "lampy" if the light won't shine? How can the light be "lighty" if no one sees it? Everything is interconnected and interdependent. You're thinking atomistically and not organically.

This is you being desperate... you fully understand the analogy —- oh, did I tell you I do PSYCHOLOGY...!! Your ‘game’ here is immature! It’s silly and pathetic!

No. That's not How it Works. You're confused.

If you are going to deny the truth then you need to say exactly WHAT IT IS you are denying...!!

Jesus also said himself in plain, undeniable speech that he and the father are One.

Oh boy, sigh...!! I think you’ve given up and started flapping in thin air... Being ‘One’ is simply saying ‘in Union’. I suppose you think there is a strange physics state where Jesus is in God and God is in the Jesus when Jesus IS GOD and God is the Father (do you notice there isn’t a TRINITY!!!) Oh, yes there is... ‘that they may be ONE WITH US’... so mankind will be GOD, too... nice, if if were strangely true!! But that’s not what Jesus meant:
He simply meant ONE IN AGREEMENT IN TRUTH.

Marking your homework I’d have to put ‘Must do better’!!

 

[Soapy]

No. Jesus is hoping that we will realize our oneness, just as he and the Father are one. Your argument is exegetically and theologically untenable.

Hmm.., Sojourner is suggesting we will be a MULTIPLINITY OF GOD!!

Intetesting.

Truly, he realises he is in trouble and is playing a “fools game”! (Technical term!! One in which the contributor deliberately offers up purposely faulty ideas to cause confusion and anger among serious senators or discussers)

 

[Soapy]

Of course it is. The doctrine clearly states that there is one God.

One God but three rulers?

this is true oxymoron.

One God is monotheism
Three RULERS is Polytheism

Which is it?

Truth plus fallacy = FALLACY
FALLACY plus Truth = FALLACY
ONLY:
Truth plus truth = Trurh.

 

[sojourner]

Do you propose that the true believer should also ‘believe the lie’ because you say truth believers are ‘pitiful’!

The only “lie” I see here is the one coming from you due to your lack of understanding of the doctrine.

So, what is the context of the ‘pity’ that you claim I said?

You’ve dealt with us all these years, and still you don’t understand us. That’s pitiful.

TRUTH CANNOT CHANGE...!

Hmm... our understanding of truth certainly can and does change.

And this too. Each trinitarian disagrees with all other trinitarian ideologies

There is only one ideology — one doctrine. Have you even bothered to read it? Or are you just arguing from hearsay?

We ARE SEPARATED FROM GOD BY SIN

We are reconciled to God through Christ.

God does not receive our prayers directly

Tell that to the Jews.

we can be SEPARATED from him... and we are

I’m sorry you feel that way. Must be pretty scary for you to believe that falsehood.

So now we can see the truth of John 1:1-3.

• In the beginning was God’s word,
• the word was with him (it’s HIS WORD)
  
• And the word was GOD (do you hear it??? The word was ‘GOD’!!!

And that word became flesh in the Person of Jesus. You’re conveniently forgetting that part.

God PUT FLESH ON THE BONES OF HOS PROPHECY. there is nothing FANTASTICAL IN THIS... it is simply saying that God did what he said he would do...

Faulty exegesis. You’re grabbing at straws that don’t exist.

This is you being desperate... you fully understand the analogy —- oh, did I tell you I do PSYCHOLOGY...!! Your ‘game’ here is immature! It’s silly and pathetic

1) See above. This is you being desperate.
2) You “do” psychology — whatever that means. But it’s obvious to anyone with a brain stem that you don’t “do” theology — which is what we’re dealing with here. Please don’t quit your day job. You’re no theologian. Unlike some of us in this conversation.
3) I’m terribly relieved I’m not coming to you for counseling. You misunderstand people and you yell too much.
4) if you’ve dealt with us all these years and still don’t understand us, your specialty must be dog psychology. Just sayin’.

Oh boy, sigh...!! I think you’ve given up and started flapping in thin air... Being ‘One’ is simply saying ‘in Union

No. That’s not what the passage is saying. Please leave exegesis to us professionals.

Sojourner is suggesting we will be a MULTIPLINITY OF GOD!!

You “do” psychology and can’t spell “multiplicity?” Nonetheless: if you like. We are all “in” God.

Truly, he realises he is in trouble and is playing a “fools game”!

The fools game is presenting your straw man as a logical argument. Look, the doctrine isn’t easy to understand, and you’ve never read it.

One God but three rulers?

No, that’s not it. Read. The. Doctrine.

Which is it?

Wrong question. A worthy answer depends upon asking the right question.

 

[Soapy]

The only “lie” I see here is the one coming from you due to your lack of understanding of the doctrine.


You’ve dealt with us all these years, and still you don’t understand us. That’s pitiful.


Hmm... our understanding of truth certainly can and does change.


There is only one ideology — one doctrine. Have you even bothered to read it? Or are you just arguing from hearsay?


We are reconciled to God through Christ.


Tell that to the Jews.

I’m sorry you feel that way. Must be pretty scary for you to believe that falsehood.


And that word became flesh in the Person of Jesus. You’re conveniently forgetting that part.


Faulty exegesis. You’re grabbing at straws that don’t exist.

1) See above. This is you being desperate.
2) You “do” psychology — whatever that means. But it’s obvious to anyone with a brain stem that you don’t “do” theology — which is what we’re dealing with here. Please don’t quit your day job. You’re no theologian. Unlike some of us in this conversation.
3) I’m terribly relieved I’m not coming to you for counseling. You misunderstand people and you yell too much.
4) if you’ve dealt with us all these years and still don’t understand us, your specialty must be dog psychology. Just sayin’.



No. That’s not what the passage is saying. Please leave exegesis to us professionals.


You “do” psychology and can’t spell “multiplicity?” Nonetheless: if you like. We are all “in” God.


The fools game is presenting your straw man as a logical argument. Look, the doctrine isn’t easy to understand, and you’ve never read it.


No, that’s not it. Read. The. Doctrine.


Wrong question. A worthy answer depends upon asking the right question.

May God open your eyes and Jesus judge you afterwards.

 

[syo]

This is unbelievable... syo... where have you been?

What do you mean by ‘Isnt the Son God’...

Have you read nothing of what has been written???

This is unbelievable!!

syo, NO!! The Son is NOT GOD...!!!

The Father ALONE IS GOD... do you not know this... where do you learn Christianity? Who is your teacher?

Ok, I’m breathing deeply...
...

...

Jesus is the SECOND ADAM... or precisely, the LAST ADAM.

The first Adam was created sinless, holy, innocent, .. he followed the guidance and commands of his creator: Almighty God: YHWH.

Father, means ‘Creator’, ‘Life Giver’, ‘Bringer into being’, ‘the Head’. Do you agree?

A SON, SPIRITUALLY, is ‘He who does the works of the Father’... try to understand this.

Adam is described as ‘SON OF GOD’ (Luke 3:38).
Who is Adam’s FATHER...

Why do you NOT think that Adam, a human, is SON OF GOD?

This is a SPIRITUAL FATHERHOOD, a SPIRITUAL SONSHIP!! God did not give BIRTH to Adam...as an OFFSPRING.

This thought of OFFSPRING is a HUMAN CONCEPT... God is SPIRIT and a SPIRIT DOES NOT PROCREATE (like for Like!)

We are told Adam is THE IMAGE OF GOD... spirit does not have an IMAGE, so this too is a SPIRITUAL MEANING: ‘The mindset, the abilities: love, intelligence, pride, wisdom, inventiveness, nurture, husbandry,...’ Animals have aspects but not anywhere near all these things... they are not ‘image of their creator’.

But Adam sinned... Adam, SON OF GOD, went against what God told him ... he sinned and LIST HIS HOLY SONSHIP...

Why is Jesus called the SECOND ADAM... ? Read again what the FIRST ADAM WAS...

Jesus, the second, the LAST ADAM, is also called ‘SON OF GOD’. Why do you say that Jesus being Son of God IS GOD but weirdly say the First Adam, being Son of God is NOT GOD?

Jesus, being born of the Holy Spirit intervention, is THEREFORE HOLY, theSon of the God most high.

How can you say that a child born from a human is ALMIGHTY GOD MOST HIGH. is this not what PAGANS believe... Think of your Greek superheroes...are these not DEMI-GODS... part human part ‘God’..?

And the Egyptians Pharoahs who claim they are human SONS of the Spirit Gods!!

When Adam sinned, God was angry and desired to destroy his creation. But relented. He gave a kind the chance to redeem itself through the giving of blood from a pure and holy MAN. He gave them time to find such a MAN.

Finally, when none was found, God enacted a CONTINGENCY PLAN he had set in place - A SECOND ADAM...

But since truly miracle births are not his thing, he used the BODY of a woman, Mary, this as scriptures prophesied: ’The SEED OF A WOMAN’... not the human PROCREATION (man and woman - seed and sperm, combo!)

The Holy SPIRIT OVERSHADOWS MARY, and you will conceive a child... and because of this the child will be called HOLY, the Son of the God most high... Son of God.

It’s not rocket science. The scriptures is not rocket science! It is FALSE LEADERS and untruthful ideologies that make it seem so!

So, Jesus, Son of God, continued in his life to follow the guidance and commands of his heavenly Father... even unto DEATH.

syo, this is why we CONTINUE to say Jesus is SON OF GOD: because he did not sin as Adam did...

And because of this Jesus is REWARDED with being seated NEXT TO GOD IN HEAVEN.

syo, how do you envision JESUS sitting NEXT TO GOD and say Jesus IS GOD?

Even the disciple, STEPHEN, envisioning heaven opening, saw GOD SEATED ON HIS THRONE, and JESUS STANDING NEXT TO GOD.

This ‘seated’ and ‘standing’ annoy be so if both are GOD... GOD cannot be two persons with one being in a SERVENTILE standing position.

And even YHWH God prophesied:

• ‘He hold my SERVANT whom I have chosen. I will put MY SPIRIT upon him and he will do all that I send him to do’ (Isaiah 42:1)

Who is this SERVANT that God spoke of? Have you worked out that it is JESUS?

syo, since when is GOD A MAN, and GOD A SERVANT?

And when did YHWH pour out his Holy Spirit onto HIS SERVANT?

syo, if Jesus is God... why is he to sit as ‘KING’ in a limited human kingdom of creation when, as God he would be ‘King’ in the endless kingdom of Heaven?

What say you now to ‘Isnt the Son God’

Why do you try to negate the teachings of orthodox christians?

Don't you think that Jesus the Son God died for our sins so that we can be saved?

The orthodox Son God and Father God show endless love.

Why do you try to say that Jesus is just a man?

Where is the love?

 

[cataway]

May God open your eyes and Jesus judge you afterwards.

yes it is possible
John 6:43
In response Jesus said to them: “Stop murmuring among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life."

the invitation has been made . will you accept it is the question

 

[Soapy]

yes it is possible
John 6:43
In response Jesus said to them: “Stop murmuring among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life."

the invitation has been made . will you accept it is the question

Er... I was semi-quoting a verse where the angel Michael was arguing with Satan over thd body of Moses. Michael, angered by the stupidness of Satan, and frustrated by his obstinacy and swivelling, ducking, diving, and disingenuousness, ‘did not bring a reviling accusation against him but said only, “May God judge you”!’

I said this because sojourner is being disingenuous with his answers. He is being deliberately obtuse and ‘having fun’ posting nonsense because he can see that what I wrote was true and he has no answer to oppose it. So rather than admit that he see the truth - he writes ‘fun’, ‘fantasy’, ‘deliberately “Trinitarian”’ responses with no substance behind them. You will see that my answers are comprehensive and end-to-end. His answers are patchy, sparse, and disjointed, if they say anything at all.

I was posting serious stuff but he thinks it’s just fun to post replies containing no substance.

And everything I write UPHOLD the sanctity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Messiah, and that the Father ALONE is the GOD MOST HIGH:

• ‘Father..., This means everlasting life [to them] that they should believe in you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and in Jesus Christ WHOM TOU SENT’

Trinitarians have no answer to this verse and try to avoid it at all costs and even devise claims AGAINST JESUS’ own words.... words that state categorically that the Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

The facts of this proof cause so much trouble for Trinitarians they wet their pants trying to devise alternative renderings - but cannot.

But let me tell you this:

• If you claim that Jesus’ words here are lies...
• ‘May Jesus judge you!’

 

[Soapy]

Why do you try to negate the teachings of orthodox christians?

I detect that you are not very acquainted with scriptures. I detect that you are a just saying things that a church rhetoric has taught you.

‘Orthodox Christian’? There is no such thing?
You may CLAIM or be taught to claim that there is such a thing but in truth there is only one TRUE CHRISTIAN and that Christian does not have a TITLE because it does not need one.

A Christian should believe one thing... the only thing ... that The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ is our only Lord.

If you believe that then you are Christian... anything else is ANTICHRIST.

So, in Christ there is no ‘orthodox’ or ...whatever the other titles out there are!!! Do you see (the bold bits as) a verse that says something similar in the scriptures?

Don't you think that Jesus the Son God died for our sins so that we can be saved?

‘Son God’... what is a ‘Son God’? Aren’t Son Gods pagan ideology? Sure are... Hercules, etc.

The orthodox Son God and Father God show endless love.

There will always be similarities between believes robbed from one to make another. The romans robbed the Greeks of their Gods because they’d own we’re not as exciting... so what are you saying if a pagan god is CLAIMED to have ’endless love’... what are you saying that the true God and HIS CHRIST do not show ‘endless lives... in fact why did you even say that... your suggestion is that the ONLY TRUE GOD AND HIS CHRIST do not show ‘endless love’ when no one even mentioned anything about ‘Love’!!!

Why do you try to say that Jesus is just a man?

Oh no, not you as well... why are Trinitarians so bad at reading and understand... I absolutely never ever said, nor would ever say.. that Jesus Christ is ‘just a man’... that what you said is PURE TRINITARIAN...

I have written EXTENSIVELY that Jesus is a man born SINLESS, HOLY, And INNOCENT, the Last Adam, born of the Seed of a WOMAN... the seed enlivened by the breath of the Holy Spirit of the Father... WOW, if someone is claiming that this makes Jesus ‘just a man’, then we need better education in our schools.

Where is the love?

It’s a song by ‘Blackeye Peas’:

• People killin' people dyin'
  Children hurtin', I hear them cryin'
  Can you practice what you preachin'?
  Would you turn the other cheek again?
  Mama, mama, mama, tell us what the hell is goin' on
  Can't we all just get along?
  Father, father, father help us
  Send some guidance from above
  'Cause people got me, got me
  Questioning
  (Where's the love)

 

[sojourner]

I said this because sojourner is being disingenuous with his answers. He is being deliberately obtuse and ‘having fun’ posting nonsense because he can see that what I wrote was true and he has no answer to oppose it. So rather than admit that he see the truth - he writes ‘fun’, ‘fantasy’, ‘deliberately “Trinitarian”’ responses with no substance behind them. You will see that my answers are comprehensive and end-to-end. His answers are patchy, sparse, and disjointed, if they say anything at all.

I was posting serious stuff but he thinks it’s just fun to post replies containing no substance

BS posts only merit short answers. Your arguments are so poor— you have not even bothered to read the doctrine you’re arguing against — you’re simply presenting straw man fallacies. You’ve not presented a single thought that is congruent with the theology of the Trinity. Not one.

I detect that you are not very acquainted with scriptures

As if you’re an expert. Again: please leave theology and exegesis to the professionals.

I detect that you are a just saying things that a church rhetoric has taught you

...As if the Church knows nothing...

‘Orthodox Christian’? There is no such thing?

Of course there is. There are also heretical Christians.

I absolutely never ever said, nor would ever say.. that Jesus Christ is ‘just a man

‘K... what is he then? We have humanity and we have Divinity. Which is he? Human or Divine? If he’s not “just” a man (human), then he must be in some wise Divine. Which is what the doctrine asserts: Jesus is fully human and fully Divine.

the seed enlivened by the breath of the Holy Spirit of the Father

We are all nephesh by virtue of the indwelling Spirit. Not just Jesus. Again: you need to leave theology to us professionals.

 

[cataway]

professionals.

processionals! ? Soapy just rip'ed you a new one ,rather well i might add .

 

[sojourner]

processionals! ? Soapy just rip'ed you a new one ,rather well i might add .

No. He didn’t. He didn’t even rip me a good one. He can’t even argue effectively against the Trinity because he doesn’t understand the doctrine; he’s not read it. He has presented nothing in the way of a real argument. He just talks all pious and as if he knows what he’s doing. He needs to revisit who’s being silly and disingenuous here.

 

[cataway]

actually you, like others ,have been so well indoctrinated with false beliefs that the ability to use logic has escaped you's. its only because you prefer to believe what you '' want'' rather than whats in scripture .

 

[sojourner]

actually you, like others ,have been so well indoctrinated with false beliefs that the ability to use logic has escaped you's. its only because you prefer to believe what you '' want'' rather than whats in scripture .

What is it with this irresponsible infatuation with sola scriptura?

Let me ask you: do you have any advanced or professional experience with the exegetical process? Exegesis normally guards against biases like belief and indoctrination.

 

[cataway]

me thinks you dont like how you can be so expertly be refuted . you have a false understanding that can only use twisted reasoning too back up your thoughts.
like it or not you cant have a true God that is perfect in every way and then cut him into three pieces and still say/ know he is perfect. when you divide him he is then missing some thing . then when missing some thing he could no longer be perfect.

 

[sojourner]

me thinks you dont like how you can be so expertly be refuted

I haven’t been refuted. What I find disconcerting is people who post crappy theology and terrible interpretation and think they’ve come up with some bastion of scholastic work and then claim some kind of “victory.”

you cant have a true God that is perfect in every way and then cut him into three pieces and still say/ know he is perfect

See above. Crappy theological construction that bears no resemblance to the theology of the Trinity.

when you divide him he is then missing some thing

God is not divided according to the doctrine of the Trinity. Please, for the love of God, Read. It!

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It's a pretty mysterious and complicated concept , so for me, I would have to answer 'more research required.' I guess my suspicion is that the concept is a pagan import to Abrahamism, so for understanding what it is, you would have to study their understandings of it. Then there is the question of where to look, where are all places that you can find the divine triplicate idea? Now I know that ancient historians usually associated this whole triplicate tendency to the Celts for example, and they had a far wider territory at one time and must have had a far ranging influence. The three magi are said to have come from the east, so you'd also have to look in that direction, maybe toward Hinduism or something else that existed during that time. Archaeology may also provide some clues, where perhaps gods are seen to be blended together - seeming to have multiple faces or heads, but retaining the 'monism' of one body or head

 

[cataway]

Matthew 3:
17 Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”
are they together or separate ?