The trinity is false - I have proof

[learner Daniel]

you likely don't realize it that there is a vast difference in '' mighty God '' and the ''all mighty God ''

Jeremiah 32:18
Darby Translation
18 who shewest mercy unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them, thou, the great, the mighty God,—Jehovah of hosts is his name;

Nehemiah 9:32
And now, our God, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who keepest covenant and loving-kindness, let not all the trouble seem little before thee, that hath come upon us, on our kings, on our princes, and on our priests, and on our prophets, and on our fathers, and on all thy people, since the days of the kings of Assyria unto this day.

Isaiah 10:21
The remnant shall return, the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

 

[learner Daniel]

Revelation 1:8
Darby Translation
8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith [the] Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

Exodus 6:3
And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as the Almighty God; but by my name Jehovah I was not made known to them.

 

[learner Daniel]

The concept of "Trinity" was and is a theological construct trying to explain the relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This construct uses the concept of "essence" that well educated Mediterranean people back in Jesus' time would understand as it came mostly from Aristotle and Plato.

es·sence
[ˈes(ə)ns]
noun

1. the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character:

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical%20Basis%20Trinity%20Bowman.pdf

 

[cataway]

American Standard Version
I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.

 

[marriedmanoffaith]

I believe the trinity is false. God is not a trinity. Proof?

1 Corinthians 14.33
For God is not the author of confusion

The trinity create confusion.

And

Exodus 20.5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God

According to the trinity God has three I. But according to Exodus 20.5 God has only one I
I believe the trinity is false. God is not a trinity. Proof?

1 Corinthians 14.33

For God is not the author of confusion
The trinity create confusion

And
Exodus 20.5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God
According to the trinity God has three I. But according to Exodus 20.5 God has only one I

I'll try to address this from various angles.

Historically speaking, the concept of the Trinity has been a subject of debate and interpretation throughout Christian history. The Council of Nicaea in 325 AD was largely convened to address this very issue. I find it fascinating how theological concepts evolve and are codified over time.

Psychologically I understand why the Trinity might seem confusing. Our minds naturally seek simple, clear-cut explanations, and the idea of three persons in one God can challenge that tendency. It's a complex concept that has puzzled theologians and laypeople alike for centuries.

But I've come to see the Trinity not as a source of confusion as a beautiful mystery that reflects the depth and richness of God's nature. The verse you quoted from 1 Corinthians about God not being the author of confusion is, in context, more about order in worship than about theological concepts.

Regarding Exodus 20:5, in Trinitarian theology, we don't believe in three separate Gods in one God with three persons. The "I" in that verse refers to the one divine nature, not to separate beings.

That said, I respect your perspective and the thought you've put into this. Faith is a personal journey, and questioning and exploring these concepts is a natural part of that journey. I'm always here if you want to discuss this further.

Remember, whether one believes in the Trinity or not, the core of our faith lies in love, compassion, and striving to live as Christ taught us. Those are the things that truly matter.

 

[metis]

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical%20Basis%20Trinity%20Bowman.pdf

I don't know how the above relates to what I posted.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The concept of "Trinity" was and is a theological construct trying to explain the relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This construct uses the concept of "essence" that well educated Mediterranean people back in Jesus' time would understand as it came mostly from Aristotle and Plato.

es·sence
[ˈes(ə)ns]
noun

1. the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character:

That was not taught by the apostles, nor is it biblical. And we were warned about being ruined through philosophy. Colossians 2:8-9

The stoics were also philosophers and called Paul a babbler. Man's so called wisdom is contrary to truth.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

According to the scriptures, the Son/the Word “became flesh” (John 1), was with God and was God prior to coming to earth and being born physically through Mary. So this tells me that the Son is a spiritual Being who existed eternally before becoming a human.

You are ignoring that the scripture I gave that said he was made of a woman, and made under the law. YHWH had a plan to take on flesh when the time was right, and he did.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I believe that interpretation is false. There are many references to it in the Bible.

Show us JUST one scripture that says there is a Trinity.

 

[Trailblazer]

Colossians 2:8-9

Colossians 2

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

But ironically, it was Paul who spoiled what Christianity could have been, by leading people astray regarding who Jesus really was, and the real significance of Jesus' mission on earth..

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

That was not taught by the apostles. That is the Gospel according to Paul.

 

[Trailblazer]

Show us JUST one scripture that says there is a Trinity.

Show us JUST one scripture that says YHWH had a plan to take on flesh when the time was right, and he did.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Show us JUST one scripture that says YHWH had a plan to take on flesh when the time was right, and he did.

Unto us a son is given, and he shall be called the mighty God and the everlasting Father. (Here was his plan.)

How was YHWH going to come down and tread upon the high places of the earth (Jerusalem) as it says in Micah 1:3-5 without a body?

Feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his OWN blood. Acts 20:28

YHWH looked out and saw that there was no man, no intercessor; therefore his OWN arm brought salvation. Isaiah 59:16-17

YHWH said there is other God besides him, and no Saviour besides him. Isaiah 45:21-22

In the beginning was the plan, and the plan was with God, and the plan was God. John 1:1 (Logos doesn't mean Son - it means thought, idea, concept, plan, etc. And the word of God IS God's plan.)

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Colossians 2

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

But ironically, it was Paul who spoiled what Christianity could have been, by leading people astray regarding who Jesus really was, and the real significance of Jesus' mission on earth..

How Paul changed the course of Christianity

This is an excerpt from the book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer. This section explains how Paul changed the Christianity of Jesus. It is important to note that the views expressed by this author reflect his individual perspective and...

www.religiousforums.com

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

That was not taught by the apostles. That is the Gospel according to Paul.

PAUL was an apostle.

Even the Messiah himself said, the Father that dwells in me does the works. John 14:10

If you had known Me, you would have known my Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him. John 14:7

He who hates Me hates my Father also. ... but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. John 15:23-24 (Because the Son is the fleshly body, and the Father is dwelling in that body.)

No man knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and he to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Matthew 11:27

 

[Sargonski]

I believe the trinity is false. God is not a trinity. Proof?

1 Corinthians 14.33
For God is not the author of confusion

The trinity create confusion.

And

Exodus 20.5
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God

According to the trinity God has three I. But according to Exodus 20.5 God has only one I

This is an interesting thread .. highlighting that while the God made up by Paul may not be the author of confusion .. The Gods of the Jewish Bible tell a different story .. and the Gods of the books of the new testiment a different one yet ..

Jesus himself states that his message is intentionally confusing .. the message of Jesus = the message of God thus the author of that which is intentionally confusing .. but, let us concern ourselves with the identities of the Two Gods to which we are introduced .. on page 1 of the story - 4 Gods if you include Jesus and the Holy Sprite as Gods but .. I do not think this is what the author is intending ..

The first God we have is the God who Adopts Jesus -- we are not told the name of this God --- we will call him God of Jesus for now (who ends up not being the God of Paul but, that is putting cart before horse). The next God we meet is the Tester of Souls .. Chief God over the Earth .. the Son of God who tested Job .. one of high importance among the Bnei Elohim .. as we are told in Job .. Ha Satan is God's "Right hand Man" in a manner of speaking .. taking care of business on earth .. Ha Satan more of a Title rather than a name for this God .. but God number 2 never the less.

Now- there is legitimate claim that Satan is at least one God who authors confusion from time to time - though I would not say that this is the God of Paul .. nor the God of Jesus- obviously.

We are introduced indirectly to another God later in the Story .. The God of the Pharisee "The Father" .. but this is not the one who Jesus calls "Our Father - who art in heaven - hallowed be thy name" no .. Jesus refers to this God as the Devil .. father of lies confusion .. a murdererer from the beginning .. not many good things has Jesus to say about this God .. or should we say "twin Gods" Lord YHWH and Lord Jealous. for in Exodus 34 the God speaking states his name is Jealous . .. each of these Gods makes a different covenant with Israel .. neither of which is the covenant that Jesus follows.

so -- now we have at least 3 Gods of Confusion in the story .... the number of Gods of confusion in the story in of itself confusing ! because the Most High sent his son to mess with Job and Jesus says his most high God is the author of confusions so that makes 4 -- the most high God of Jesus , Lord YHWH, Lord Jealous and Lord Satani-EL .. the full name of the God used for a reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unto us a son is given, and he shall be called the mighty God and the everlasting Father. (Here was his plan.)

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Please note that the verse says: "his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father."
It does not say that person will actually be the mighty God or the everlasting Father.

So, that person will be called the Father, just as Jesus was called the Son.

He also came in the glory of his Father.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

How was YHWH going to come down and tread upon the high places of the earth (Jerusalem) as it says in Micah 1:3-5 without a body?

YHWH is not going to come down to earth at all. YHWH manifests Himself in a man who has a body.

YHWH cannot incarnate and reveal His Essence to humans because He is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men and can never be known except through Manifestations of God such as Jesus.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

When Jesus walked the earth, God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. In other words, God did not actually become flesh. If God had become flesh and we would be able to see God, but the Bible says that no man has ever seen God.

John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

YHWH looked out and saw that there was no man, no intercessor; therefore his OWN arm brought salvation. Isaiah 59:16-17

YHWH said there is other God besides him, and no Saviour besides him. Isaiah 45:21-22

Yes, God is our Savior and God brings salvation, but God works through His Manifestations to accomplish that.

In the beginning was the plan, and the plan was with God, and the plan was God. John 1:1 (Logos doesn't mean Son - it means thought, idea, concept, plan, etc. And the word of God IS God's plan.)

Yes, God has a plan and has been carrying it out through His Manifestations, who are God's Messengers and Representatives.

 

[metis]

That was not taught by the apostles, nor is it biblical.

Educated people living in the Mediterranean area before and after Jesus" time would know how "essence" is used, and we well know that the authors of the Nicene Creed used it. If the Creed was written in modern English, it probably would come out quite differently at times as translations can sometimes be problematic.

BTW, there's a whole chapter on this in Hitchcock's "History of the Catholic Church", but obviously I have no way of getting my copy to you.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Educated people living in the Mediterranean area before and after Jesus" time would know how "essence" is used, and we well know that the authors of the Nicene Creed used it. If the Creed was written in modern English, it probably would come out quite differently at times as translations can sometimes be problematic.

BTW, there's a whole chapter on this in Hitchcock's "History of the Catholic Church", but obviously I have no way of getting my copy to you.

The apostles were taught by the Messiah and were told to teach the world. They didn't teach anything like that. Essence is a made up concept taught many years after the apostles died.

It clearly says in John 4:24 God is a Spirit. (It doesn't say 3 persons) Why not just accept the truth taught by the men God chose?

It clearly says the fullness of the Godhead dwells in him bodily, and you are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power. Why not just accept what it says?

When it clearly shows that the Holy Spirit is the Father in Matthew 1:20 (she was found with child of the Holy Spirit). Why not just accept it? Why claim they are separate persons?

 

[metis]

The apostles were taught by the Messiah and were told to teach the world. They didn't teach anything like that. Essence is a made up concept taught many years after the apostles died.

False, as "essence" predates Christianity by a couple of hundred years.

If you want to argue, you'll have to find someone else to do it with.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

YHWH is not going to come down to earth at all. YHWH manifests Himself in a man who has a body.

YHWH cannot incarnate and reveal His Essence to humans because He is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men and can never be known except through Manifestations of God such as Jesus.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

When Jesus walked the earth, God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. In other words, God did not actually become flesh. If God had become flesh and we would be able to see God, but the Bible says that no man has ever seen God.

John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

Yes, God is our Savior and God brings salvation, but God works through His Manifestations to accomplish that.

Yes, God has a plan and has been carrying it out through His Manifestations, who are God's Messengers and Representatives.

Malachi said YHWH would come forth out of his place and come down and tread upon the high places of the earth. (You need to check the Hebrew because you are wrong on this.)

You can't see the invisible Spirit of God. But when he takes on a body you would then be able to see him. The Messiah said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Even in Isaiah it said I saw YHWH high and lifted up sitting on the throne. And the Messiah was the image (body) of the invisible God.

As a matter of fact, God made man in his image. How would that be possible if invisible is the only option?

If he didn't come down as you say, how was he received up as you mentioned regarding 1 Timothy 3:16 ?

The scripture said he was in the world and the world was made by him, but the world knew him not. John 1:10 And Genesis 1:1 lets us know God made the world.

Just fyi, no where have I ever said God became flesh. God is an eternal Spirit. I said God made himself a body to dwell in and sacrifice for our sins. He was the Father of that body, so he called it his Son. But it wasn't another person. YHWH was the one dwelling in that body.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

False, as "essence" predates Christianity by a couple of hundred years.

If you want to argue, you'll have to find someone else to do it with.

It's not biblical.