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The Trinity makes no sense to me. Please Explain....

anonymous9887

bible reader
If god died on the cross, who runs the world ?
God didn't die Jesus did.
John 10:29 the father is greater than all.
John 20:17 jesus calls him my father and your father to my god and your god.
Ephesians 1:17 the god of our Lord Jesus christ.
1 corinthians 11:3 the head of christ is god.

And so many more.

Satan rules the world btw
1 John 5:19
2 Corinthians 4:4
John 14:30
Luke 4:6
Revelation 12:9
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
God didn't die Jesus did.
John 10:29 the father is greater than all.
John 20:17 jesus calls him my father and your father to my god and your god.
Ephesians 1:17 the god of our Lord Jesus christ.
1 corinthians 11:3 the head of christ is god.

And so many more.

Satan rules the world btw
1 John 5:19
2 Corinthians 4:4
John 14:30
Luke 4:6
Revelation 12:9

Don't you believe that Jesus peace be upon him was god ?
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
No I believe what these people taught:
Jesus- John 14:28, John 10:29, revelation 3:12
Paul- 1 corinthians 11:3, 1 corinthians 15:24-28, Ephesians 1:17, Ephesians 4:5,6

Can you say what you believe who Jesus peace be upon him was instead of referring to verses? People may interpret verses differently
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Can you say what you believe who Jesus peace be upon him was instead of referring to verses? People may interpret verses differently
The verses speak for themselves.

For me this is what Jesus means to me:
1. He is not god
2. He was a spirit creature in his pre human existence.
3. He is God's greatest instrument, as god created all things through Jesus.
4. Jesus always glorifies his father Jehovah (YHWH also known as Yahweh)
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
How and why ?

1. He was gods first creation, he is the only being directly created by god, and no its not like begetting or anything like that.
2. Jesus in the OT is known as the logos, he was the interment that acted for god or spoke for god. Jesus was the one who wrestled with Jacob, he appeared to Joshua.
3. No other creature can really say that god created all things through them, so that in itself is a privilege.

If you want more info be more explicit.
And be up front, what are you trying to get at?
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
1. He was gods first creation, he is the only being directly created by god, and no its not like begetting or anything like that.
2. Jesus in the OT is known as the logos, he was the interment that acted for god or spoke for god. Jesus was the one who wrestled with Jacob, he appeared to Joshua.
3. No other creature can really say that god created all things through them, so that in itself is a privilege.

If you want more info be more explicit.
And be up front, what are you trying to get at?


Trying to find common ground or finding where we differ for the sake of discussion.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Trying to find common ground or finding where we differ for the sake of discussion.
Ok thanks for being straight forward.
1. I differ in the explanation of theodicy that the Qur'an provides, and the bible provides.
2. I do not accept muhammad as gods prophet.
3. I believe in the authenticity of Pauls apostleship.
4. I believe in one true god.
5. I don't believe in eternal suffering for those that don't make it to jenna or what I would call paradise.

There a variety of areas where I disagree. So no need to find common ground, feel free to dive right into a discussion.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Ok thanks for being straight forward.
1. I differ in the explanation of theodicy that the Qur'an provides, and the bible provides.
2. I do not accept muhammad as gods prophet.
3. I believe in the authenticity of Pauls apostleship.
4. I believe in one true god.
5. I don't believe in eternal suffering for those that don't make it to jenna or what I would call paradise.

There a variety of areas where I disagree. So no need to find common ground, feel free to dive right into a discussion.

Well okay than.

As you know in Islam we believe that there was an Injeel given to Jesus peace be upon him, but we believe it had been tempered with and we believe that many parts there are man made and are not true. The Injeel is different from the bible we see today.


For instance, I don't believe in this and I don't get why would God would create things through Jesus peace be upon him.

I am struggling to start a discussion because I don't know on what basis would it be.


Even though I don't believe in the bible to be true completely, I don't think that the bible explicitly said that Jesus peace be upon him claimed this.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Well okay than.

As you know in Islam we believe that there was an Injeel given to Jesus peace be upon him, but we believe it had been tempered with and we believe that many parts there are man made and are not true. The Injeel is different from the bible we see today.


For instance, I don't believe in this and I don't get why would God would create things through Jesus peace be upon him.

I am struggling to start a discussion because I don't know on what basis would it be.


Even though I don't believe in the bible to be true completely, I don't think that the bible explicitly said that Jesus peace be upon him claimed this.

Ok.
1. Actually as I have been studying more and more how we have the new testament today I am thoroughly convinced that we have a pretty accurate account of the gospels, aside from unintentional scribal errors that can be caught, and the added passages that can be caught as well. It is a long but interesting study. The only thing I think that was really changed but I can't prove with a manuscript is the removal of gods name YHWH.
2. Well for one we don't fully understand completely how god operates even with the bible (isaiah 55:8,9)or the Qur'an. But Jesus was a spirit being and existed before coming to earth.
John 3:13, John 8:58 and other passages, plus I know you don't accept Pauls authenticity, but he is authentic alright, you just have to study in a little more depth the historical perspective and the theological perspective.
3. I personally don't see a problem with god creating a mighty spirit being to follow gods direction in creation. Jehovah the brains, and Jehovah used Jesus as the muscle. Did he need Jesus to create,no. God could have created everything himself, but god allows us to be a part of his work. For example god wants everyone to repent, and we have the wonderful privilege of preaching the good news, but he doesn't need us, but out of love he uses imperfect humans.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Well okay than.

As you know in Islam we believe that there was an Injeel given to Jesus peace be upon him, but we believe it had been tempered with and we believe that many parts there are man made and are not true. The Injeel is different from the bible we see today.


For instance, I don't believe in this and I don't get why would God would create things through Jesus peace be upon him.

I am struggling to start a discussion because I don't know on what basis would it be.


Even though I don't believe in the bible to be true completely, I don't think that the bible explicitly said that Jesus peace be upon him claimed this.
Well if you don't know where to start, you can ask all different types of questions, and I can provide you with an answer that's short, sweet, and to the point.
 

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
The Father is the Torah, so some say the Jews worship the Torah.

The Son Jesus was just a man and a son of a man.

The Holy Spirit is the One and Only God. For God is a Spirit.

There is no triunity. Hear O Israel, the Lord God is One.
 

Notaclue

Member
The Father is the Torah, so some say the Jews worship the Torah.

The Son Jesus was just a man and a son of a man.

The Holy Spirit is the One and Only God. For God is a Spirit.
There is no triunity. Hear O Israel, the Lord God is One.



Acts2:32. This Jesus, God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified


God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified


2Cor.3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom


Jn.14:15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
18“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.


Gal.4:5 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.


Acts3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.


Matt.16:15. He(Jesus) saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.



Peace to you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Holy Spirit is the One and Only God. For God is a Spirit.
There is no trinity. Hear O Israel, the Lord God is One.

Right, there is No trinity because the pre-human heavenly Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B
However, how can God's holy spirit be the One and Only God because, according to Scripture, God's spirit is neuter as ' it ' - Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
When the King James Bible was translated into English at Romans 8:16 and Romans 8:26 God's spirit is also in the neuter as ' itself ' as found at Numbers chapter 11.
Later translations took the liberty to change it/itself to him/himself.
Changing the Greek from neuter to masculine does Not change the Greek.
God and Jesus are always in the masculine gender whereas God's spirit is: neuter ( it and itself )
Even in English we say about a neuter ship as being a she even though the ship remains a neuter ' it '.
God sends forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30 - Not God sends forth Himself.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
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Muffled

Jesus in me
Ok take a look at these passages:
1. Matthew 3:16,17 the holy spirit the son and Jesus are present.
2. John 17:5 "father now glorify me alongside you with the glory I had before the world was" Jesus existed alongside the father before the world was.
3. Philippians 2:6,7 Jesus existed in pre human form with the father.

It can't be that God is different modes, because obviously that's not the case.

Revelation 3:12
In that passage Jesus is already in heaven when he speaks these words, and he addresses the father as his god while already in heaven.

Also Revelation 1:18 jesus says he is alive forever.

I believe God never dies, but that does not mean He is in a body forever. What has been will always be but in the past not the future.

I don't believe in Modalism the way that Sabellius described it. I believe someone who says something is obvious can't prove it but since it isn't obvious to me you will have to try to explain it.

I believe it says that Jesus existed in the form of the Father,

I believe this is a false assumption. There is no proof that this is the case. It is more logical that the glory is God's as Jesus identifies Himself as God.

I believe in the omnipresence of God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If god died on the cross, who runs the world ?

I believe you are not the first to ask that question . My wife also asked it because she was a materialist. The Body dies not God. The scripture says that Jesus expired ie. that the Spirit of God left the body and significantly before the body died.
 
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