The Trinity makes no sense to me. Please Explain....

[cataway]

I keep seeing ''Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit '' posted . are angels holy spirts ?

 

[JesusBeliever]

Hi JesusBeliever,

The Bible is the Word of God, and knowing the words and works of Jesus Christ. I don't think that if the Bible is hard to read, you shift to the other book and does not read it anymore. If a person had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I believed that the Holy Spirit will guide him to understand the Bible.

Hi Yoshua,

I think you misunderstood me, I didn't say that I find it hard to read and shift to other books but that I know of others who do and encourage others to do the same. Personally, I love the Bible and encourage everyone to read it and study it for themselves.

The word "Bible" is also not in the Bible as well as the word "Trinity." It is simply one God exists in three persons; it is the existence as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is the simplest explanation of the trinitarian doctrine.
Thanks

Can you please explain to me what is meant by PERSONS, because it is this word that seems to trip people up, including me. I think it's safe to say it's not 3 SEPARATE PEOPLE? But is it 3 SPIRITS??? Coz that's the problem that I think most people have with the Trinity doctrine.

Look I'm gonna be really honest right now, I've been sitting here for a while just thinking about the Bible and the Trinity. And what just occurred to me is that there is a FATHER and a SON. And then the question arose, "Where's the MOTHER?" And then another question arose, "Is it the HOLY SPIRIT?

If it is, it would make sense in that the BIBLE says that WOMAN should keep silent in the Church, seeing the HOLY SPIRIT is also a quiet worker in the believer.

Just a thought.

 

[jaybird]

Hi there, I accept your point and do sincerely apologise. Which is why I have since edited my post giving a short and long reply (being my original post). The short answer I gave better highlights the problem I see with the trinity. I will repost my short reply here for your convenience:

no need to apologize, if those were your thoughts you should say express them. if you think you made a mistake you are not alone as i make mistakes everyday.
i agree with your statement, if the trinity helps you, go with it, if it dont, dont go with it. for me it hinders me. i feel like i am putting someone else above or equal to the All High and in my mind He is above all. Jesus is His Son and Jesus has made a perfect union between the heavens and earth.

 

[life.period]

I've heard it explained to me with a metaphor of water: it has three forms, but all are still water.

In Hinduism, there's a very similar concept in the sense of all gods ultimately being the same God in different forms and roles. In addition, the God Krishna had one-thousand wives, and separated himself into one thousand Krishnas for each one of them.

So, the Trinitarian Christian God can easily separate himself into three "beings" at the same time, each of whom have separate roles and semi-separate identities, but still God.

(Trinitarian Christians, feel free to correct me if my explanation is not accurate.)

However, I wouldn't call it pure monotheism.

Sorry but it not same

If we said every person consist of three form " body , soul, ..

They father , son and holly spirit will be more than three .

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Sorry but it not same
If we said every person consist of three form " body , soul, ..
They father , son and holy spirit will be more than three .

Also you may want to take notice that both God and Jesus are always in the masculine gender but God's spirit is: neuter in gender as the word " it " at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
Just as in English we may refer to a boat or a ship as a "she" the boat or ship is always remains as a neuter "it".
So, God's spirit (Not Jesus' spirit) is what power God uses - Psalms 104:30

 

[life.period]

Also you may want to take notice that both God and Jesus are always in the masculine gender but God's spirit is: neuter in gender as the word " it " at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
Just as in English we may refer to a boat or a ship as a "she" the boat or ship is always remains as a neuter "it".
So, God's spirit (Not Jesus' spirit) is what power God uses - Psalms 104:30

Still nothing to do with my idea ..

If jesus consist of body soul and god also body soul and holly spirit one

They remain more than three .

God , Jesus, son not three but five.

So can't say god and Jesus and holly spirit like Sun , heat ,.. etc.


Jesus sat next to god , he talked to god also he prayed to god.

So they are two person not one.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Still nothing to do with my idea ..
If jesus consist of body soul and god also body soul and holly spirit one
They remain more than three .
God , Jesus, son not three but five.
So can't say god and Jesus and holly spirit like Sun , heat ,.. etc.
Jesus sat next to god , he talked to god also he prayed to god.
So they are two person not one.

BINGO! They are two (2) persons, Not one (1) !
In the King James translations there are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned at Psalms 110:1
The LORD in all upper-case letters stands for the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) which stands for God's name - John 17:26; John 17:6
The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus.

 

[life.period]

BINGO! They are two (2) persons, Not one (1) !
In the King James translations there are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned at Psalms 110:1
The LORD in all upper-case letters stands for the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) which stands for God's name - John 17:26; John 17:6
The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus.

This is addition from christianity to Judaism

Because jews deny Jesus is god

So stop interpretation jews book to fit your way of thinking

Old testonemy says clearly god is not human ..

You can't ignore this fact after all and say god is human " jesus"

 

[JesusBeliever]

no need to apologize, if those were your thoughts you should say express them. if you think you made a mistake you are not alone as i make mistakes everyday.
i agree with your statement, if the trinity helps you, go with it, if it dont, dont go with it. for me it hinders me. i feel like i am putting someone else above or equal to the All High and in my mind He is above all. Jesus is His Son and Jesus has made a perfect union between the heavens and earth.

Hi Jaybird,

I can totally respect your struggle coz I had it as well. It's only been over time, listening and reading the Bible that has helped diminish that feeling for me. Despite having studied the Bible for 18 years, I still see things in it that I've never noticed or made sense of before. And I expect this will continue until we see Him face to face:

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I have a habit of looking up the Strong's Numbers and here's what I found for this verse:

GLASS = MIRROR
DARKLY = ENIGMA or OBSCURE SAYING
PART = PORTION

I think this verse highlights that there is no human besides Jesus who can claim they know everything.

Regards

 

[jaybird]

Hi Jaybird,

I can totally respect your struggle coz I had it as well. It's only been over time, listening and reading the Bible that has helped diminish that feeling for me. Despite having studied the Bible for 18 years, I still see things in it that I've never noticed or made sense of before. And I expect this will continue until we see Him face to face:

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I have a habit of looking up the Strong's Numbers and here's what I found for this verse:

GLASS = MIRROR
DARKLY = ENIGMA or OBSCURE SAYING
PART = PORTION

I think this verse highlights that there is no human besides Jesus who can claim they know everything.

Regards

Amen to that!
the trinity is something i dont struggle with so much anymore. i used to be bothered with it as it was different than the "norm" and other Christians told me i was wrong. now i dont worry what other people think. do i put my faith in the "norm" or do i put faith in where the Lord leads me. now days i chose the latter.
a teaching that has a big influence on me, "knock and seek" and i let the knocking and seeking lead me, not councils of men.

 

[Katzpur]

I am not sure if you are a Mormon but if you are I encourage you to please, please investigate their founding and doctrines in light of the Holy Bible. The 2 Mormon boys that I studied with admitted that they found the Bible very hard to read and preferred the Book Of Mormon over the Bible. While studying with them I tried to read the Book Of Mormon but only got half way before I had to stop. Because I had already read enough of the Bible to know that the Book Of Mormon was contradicting the Bible all over the place.

So, would you mind giving us two or three examples of where, in the first half of the Book of Mormon, it contradicts the Bible. If instances of this are all over the place, that should be a really simple request. I won't be holding my breath, though -- not even until you produce a single one.

By the way, JesusBeliever is definitely not a Mormon. That was obvious to me.

 

[JesusBeliever]

So, would you mind giving us two or three examples of where, in the first half of the Book of Mormon, it contradicts the Bible. If instances of this are all over the place, that should be a really simple request. I won't be holding my breath, though -- not even until you produce a single one.

By the way, JesusBeliever is definitely not a Mormon. That was obvious to me.

Hi Katzpur,
That comment was actually written by me but not properly displayed in Yoshua's post. I know this might be hard to believe but I really do have compassion for Mormons. Please let me be totally honest and say that when I wrote that I was recalling a time almost 18 years ago not considering that someone might do as you have done and ask me to recall what I had read. Only now that you've asked can I see the error of my comments in that I said it without any evidence to back it up. The only thing I can recall reading at this moment is about the mark of the curse being black skinned.

I admit my folly in my comments, I could have and should have been more careful with my choice of words. But please don't let that be a distraction from my encouragement to investigate the Mormon Church's founding and doctrines in light of Scripture as I have recently watched testimonies from ex-mormons exposing these things. If you would like me to share one of these videos I'd be happy to try and find them again?

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Katzpur,
That comment was actually written by me but not properly displayed in Yoshua's post.

Thanks for the clarification.

I know this might be hard to believe but I really do have compassion for Mormons.

That's nice to hear. We have compassion for you folks, too.

Please let me be totally honest and say that when I wrote that I was recalling a time almost 18 years ago not considering that someone might do as you have done and ask me to recall what I had read. Only now that you've asked can I see the error of my comments in that I said it without any evidence to back it up. The only thing I can recall reading at this moment is about the mark of the curse being black skinned.

Sorry, but the Mormons weren't the first to come up with that nonsense. That was commonly believed by Evangelical Christians long before the LDS Church even existed. Yeah, we got in on the prejudice, but it certainly didn't originate with the Book of Mormon. As a matter of fact, the Book of Mormon doesn't even have anything to do with people of African descent. Nobody in the Book of Mormon actually had black skin, as we use the term today.

I admit my folly in my comments, I could have and should have been more careful with my choice of words. But please don't let that be a distraction from my encouragement to investigate the Mormon Church's founding and doctrines in light of Scripture as I have recently watched testimonies from ex-mormons exposing these things. If you would like me to share one of these videos I'd be happy to try and find them again?

Don't bother. I've seen it all. Ex-Mormons haven't "exposed" anything. Pretty close to 100% of the stuff they take credit for as "exposing the truth" is old news, claims that have been explained and debunked a million times already. They just like to exaggerate for the benefit of the "real Christians" out there who will jump at the chance to eat up any dirt they can find on Mormons.

 

[jaybird]

So, would you mind giving us two or three examples of where, in the first half of the Book of Mormon, it contradicts the Bible. If instances of this are all over the place, that should be a really simple request. I won't be holding my breath, though -- not even until you produce a single one.

By the way, JesusBeliever is definitely not a Mormon. That was obvious to me.

i think what he is saying is he doesnt know of anything in the mormon book that conflicts with the bible and its irreverent because they are still wrong.
i dont know much about mormans other than they are a non mainstram Christian group so that alone probably means they are wrong. in todays version of Christianity in order to be right you need to be in a mainstream group. kinda like in the days of Jesus and the mainstream Jewish group was the pharisee school of thought.

 

[JesusBeliever]

Don't bother. I've seen it all. Ex-Mormons haven't "exposed" anything. Pretty close to 100% of the stuff they take credit for as "exposing the truth" is old news, claims that have been explained and debunked a million times already. They just like to exaggerate for the benefit of the "real Christians" out there who will jump at the chance to eat up any dirt they can find on Mormons.

Hi Katzpur, I went to bed thinking about our discussion last night and my experiences with Mormons over the years and it caused me to ask for forgiveness if I have trespassed in this discussion as I forgive those who trespass against me. What stood out to me while I pondered on my bed is the sincerity and kindness of Mormons I've met and their devout faith in Jesus Christ. And I was reminded of these verses:

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." Mark 9:38-42

I think this could be applied to any person who believes in Jesus whether they are a member of a denomination or not. Having been raised Catholic I know the Lord's power to reach and touch anyone who sincerely wants to know Him and be close to Him, regardless of where they are. Including little children who know very little. I whole heartedly believe Jesus' words when He said:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me." John 12:32

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Katzpur, I went to bed thinking about our discussion last night and my experiences with Mormons over the years and it caused me to ask for forgiveness if I have trespassed in this discussion as I forgive those who trespass against me. What stood out to me while I pondered on my bed is the sincerity and kindness of Mormons I've met and their devout faith in Jesus Christ. And I was reminded of these verses:

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." Mark 9:38-42

I think this could be applied to any person who believes in Jesus whether they are a member of a denomination or not. Having been raised Catholic I know the Lord's power to reach and touch anyone who sincerely wants to know Him and be close to Him, regardless of where they are. Including little children who know very little. I whole heartedly believe Jesus' words when He said:

"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me." John 12:32

Don't worry another minute about it, JesusBeliever. We both believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior and that He died for us, that we may be forgiven of our sins and be reconciled to God. We have that belief in common and it's a biggie! He loves all of us and we're all just doing our best to follow Him as we are guided in our hearts to do.

 

[Yoshua]

Can you please explain to me what is meant by PERSONS, because it is this word that seems to trip people up, including me. I think it's safe to say it's not 3 SEPARATE PEOPLE? But is it 3 SPIRITS??? Coz that's the problem that I think most people have with the Trinity doctrine.

Hi Jbeliever,

The word "trinity" is a term used that one God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other yet identical in essence, fully divine in nature.

The word “person” is “subsistence.” It means real existence. The word “person” is just only a term to define the word “trinity.” Each is divine, yet there are not three gods but one God.

Each person has a will and self-awareness as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Look I'm gonna be really honest right now, I've been sitting here for a while just thinking about the Bible and the Trinity. And what just occurred to me is that there is a FATHER and a SON. And then the question arose, "Where's the MOTHER?" And then another question arose, "Is it the HOLY SPIRIT?

We can see clearly that Jesus prayed to God (Father). There is no mother (as divine being) in the Bible nor God said that there is a mother.

If it is, it would make sense in that the BIBLE says that WOMAN should keep silent in the Church, seeing the HOLY SPIRIT is also a quiet worker in the believer.

Just a thought.

Some churches interpreted it as woman to keep silent.

Thanks

 

[Muffled]

Jesus did not believe in Trinity.
Regards

I believe you keep saying this without evidence because you think the lie will become the truth. That will never happen but maybe you could deceive a few unsuspecting people who don't know better.

 

[Muffled]

i never said He did. i also do not have the authority to speak for what He believed.

I would have to believe his statements supporting the Trinity must have come from belief. After all He did say He is the truth.

 

[Muffled]

That is almost, almost the Islamic belief. Jesus PBUH was a messenger, so like all messengers, had a degree of connection with God (through worship and so on). We do however, out right reject the trinity doctrine as it is nonsensical and completely against the teachings of Jess himself. You are not too convinced by it either it seems so you are on the journey towards the truth.

I believe you are calling God a liar when as Jesus He says I will send another comforter and I will be in you and the Father will be in you.