The Trinity

[kylixguru]

I think I'll stick with the path the Lord has showed us through His personally chosen Prophets and Apostles. Seems like the last time men decided they could find the way better without them, the Church fell into Apostasy.

I certainly do not advocate withdrawing due respect from them. As I see it, what I advocate supports them rather than supplants them. We have individual responsibilities in our eternal progress. If we don't do them, we are deadwood to the brethren.

ADD: Also, I should add, their job would be far less risky to their souls (and ours) if _we_ didn't give them, as Pres. Faust told Pres. Uchtdorf, dangerous fumes to inhale and get high off of. He warned him "DO NOT INHALE!" Meaning, don't buy into their idolatry and get intoxicated by it. The officers in the church are "chosen by the body" and they are responsible to the body. "None are exempt" even the president of the church. Take a careful look at D&C 107 for what "the programme" is that Pres. Woodruff made reference to in the excepts from the Manifesto. The means to keep the leaders from leading the people astray is the people have the responsibility to sustain them, which means we also have the responsibility to object to them if they become transgressors, which could be as simple as them neglecting to perform their duties. The doctrine of leadership infallibility is toxic and a sure path to collective apostasy. It won't be the leaders fault if so, it shall be the member's fault for pulling things in this direction. They want their leaders to be infallible, but to proclaim them as such is nothing less than blasphemy in God's eyes.

 

[Brother Michael Sky]

The concept of a triune god is not the same as they Doctrine of the Trinity. The Doctrine of the Trinity is a purposeful obfuscation of an understanding which was held by the Early Hebrews and the "original" Christians.
The misdirection occurs around the usage of the words "the spirit, the water, and the blood". Early translators added mention of The Father, The word, and the Holy Ghost into the fourth century Latin Vulgate to " enhance" understanding ( the understanding they approved of, which did NOT agree with common consensus at the time - it was an obvious attempt at misdirection).

 

[Katzpur]

I certainly do not advocate withdrawing due respect from them. As I see it, what I advocate supports them rather than supplants them. We have individual responsibilities in our eternal progress. If we don't do them, we are deadwood to the brethren.... The doctrine of leadership infallibility is toxic and a sure path to collective apostasy. It won't be the leaders fault if so, it shall be the member's fault for pulling things in this direction. They want their leaders to be infallible, but to proclaim them as such is nothing less than blasphemy in God's eyes.

Well, you and I have known each other a long, long time and you know I have never even hinted that the LDS leadership is infallible, so you can stop implying that right now. Still, I gotta say that every LDS prophet from Joseph Smith to Gordon B. Hinckley would turn over in his grave if they were to read some of your posts. Good think you're not trying to pass yourself off as a Latter-day Saint, huh?

 

[kylixguru]

Well, you and I have known each other a long, long time and you know I have never even hinted that the LDS leadership is infallible, so you can stop implying that right now. Still, I gotta say that every LDS prophet from Joseph Smith to Gordon B. Hinckley would turn over in his grave if they were to read some of your posts. Good think you're not trying to pass yourself off as a Latter-day Saint, huh?

Evidently you know me, but I have yet to recognize you. Feel free to answer me in a PM and refresh my memory on where I should know you from, etc.

I'm really not trying to imply anything about you as much as I am rebutting what you seem to be implying about me. You were implying I am an apostate because I hold a healthy separation between my individual responsibilities and the responsibilities of our leadership.

I visit wards when I travel and just a couple of weeks ago the gospel doctrine teacher taught in a bald faced manner that we are not to question the brethren and that all who do so are apostates. Last year I visited my brothers ward and the same thing was taught, based on a misinterpretation of the excepts from the manifesto. The spirit of Cain is taking over more and more and more all the time.

While I agree we should not turn heel upon the officers the Lord has stationed above us for any reason, this doesn't mean we do not have individual rights that they may not trespass upon. One of the most beautiful aspects of the restoration of the fullness of the Gospel are individual rights and the means for redress of grievances and for the general accountability of all church officers to the body. All church officers from top to bottom are impeachable if they are found to be transgressors. And, merely not performing their duties is sufficient grounds to be deemed as such.

What I see creeping in more and more all the time is a tendency of the members to immediately assume someone is apostate if they stand in the place they have every right to stand. And, to accuse someone as an apostate is to call for them to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost removed from them. This is calling for the removal of their "breath of life". Thus, this is calling for their immediate spiritual death. If you persist in standing in judgment upon me and others like me who fiercely defend our individual rights under God's Law and call for the shedding of our innocent spiritual blood, you shall be numbered among Cain's seed and reap perdition. I suggest you take a far more cautious attitude when you make the implications that you do.

What I am not and what I do not identify with are those in the church who have been taken over by the spirit of Cain who call for someone's excommunication when they simply stand boldly for their rights.

 

[kylixguru]

Still, I gotta say that every LDS prophet from Joseph Smith to Gordon B. Hinckley would turn over in his grave if they were to read some of your posts.

Actually, from about Heber J. Grant and onward they would be turning over in their graves because it was about that time when it became clear to me very valuable keys were lost. Much of what Joseph Smith Jr. knew has been lost. We have reverted back to mysticism.

The time shall come when the truth shall be made so clear that people will be able to look over the writings of the past and know who was a genuine prophet and apostle and who was just doing the best they knew how but were not a whit above the Telestial level of revelation and devoid of Joseph's Celestial keys.

In short, they have not had the honesty to admit that at the Telestial level, there is no such thing as a Lord's Anointed Prophet and there is no such thing as fully genuine apostles who are eyewitnesses of the Lord.

What we have are officers who are doing their best with promptings of the Holy Ghost. They deserve due respect, but they are NOT men who are communing directly with the Son or the Father. A major house cleaning is in order before we can be redeemed to those higher laws and higher glories.

 

[Katzpur]

Evidently you know me, but I have yet to recognize you. Feel free to answer me in a PM and refresh my memory on where I should know you from, etc.

Yeah, right... You can pretend but I'm not going to. And at this point, there's really very little need to pretend. Everybody who matters has figured you out by now anyway.

 

[Brother Michael Sky]

guess this one is lost , eh?
( a p.m. might have kept the thread moving....)

 

[kylixguru]

Yeah, right... You can pretend but I'm not going to.

I'm not asking you to pretend and I don't appreciate your implication here.
I seriously don't recognize you from anywhere.
Your posts are not interesting to me so I generally ignore them.
If you would like me to know who you are, like I said, you will need to help me make the connection. And, I would prefer this be done in private as I would rather not have my personal identity revealed on this site.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm not asking you to pretend and I don't appreciate your implication here.
I seriously don't recognize you from anywhere.
Your posts are not interesting to me so I generally ignore them.
If you would like me to know who you are, like I said, you will need to help me make the connection. And, I would prefer this be done in private as I would rather not have my personal identity revealed on this site.

Whatever.

 

[kylixguru]

Whatever.

I hope that is a "whatever" that means you respect what I've requested instead of an insolent raising of the heel.

 

[ellenjanuary]

And, to accuse someone as an apostate is to call for them to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost removed from them.

How is that even possible? Some LDS thing... man... some people need to sort their ****... lest OT come to the New World.

 

[kylixguru]

How is that even possible? Some LDS thing... man... some people need to sort their ****... lest OT come to the New World.

Your message is not clear. Do you mean the Old Testament? The carnal laws shall return due to abuses of the law on the spiritual plane. Your fears shall be realized.

 

[Katzpur]

How is that even possible? Some LDS thing... man... some people need to sort their ****... lest OT come to the New World.

Please, please, please understand that the fact that jbug has a picture of Joseph Smith as his avatar does not mean that the opinions he expresses are in any way related to LDS doctrine.

 

[kylixguru]

Please, please, please understand that the fact that jbug has a picture of Joseph Smith as his avatar does not mean that the opinions he expresses are in any way related to LDS doctrine.

Are you ashamed of the law?

 

[Katzpur]

Are you ashamed of the law?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[kylixguru]

What the hell are you talking about?

Was just a simple question. Never mind me asking it.

 

[PeterProctology]

There is nothing about the Trinity in the Bible. It's a "Church" Concept.
It is really all about "Male Dominance". No mention of a female in the Trinity !

Father = Male
Son = Male
Holy Ghost = Gender Neutral ?

Early translators added mention of "The Father", "The Son", and "The Holy Ghost" into the fourth century Latin Vulgate

 

[kylixguru]

There is nothing about the Trinity in the Bible.

That you can discern.

It's a "Church" Concept.
It is really all about "Male Dominance". No mention of a female in the Trinity !

God speaks plenty about His Bride(s). Don't you know what the church is?

 

[diosangpastol]

If the ones questioning the trinity are those that dont use the bible, then its ok coz what can we do about it. but if the people who question the trinity are those that use the bible as the basis of their faith........then we must help them realise that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus used the Bible. Jesus had John write at Rev 3v14 that Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.

God is uncreated. God had no beginning. Jesus was not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.