The Trinity

[Vendetta]

Christians disprove my statement which.contradicts yours then move on

 

[diosangpastol]

God is not a trinity, God is a FAMILY.

Using your quote of Mark, "we" might not equal to 3. also "for we are many", I believe many means >3.

The trinity was inserted by Constantine and perpetuated by Satan and his agents to receive you from your true nature and destiny.

GOD= REAL YOU= YOUR DESTINY= God's desire for all men

God wants a family, a family with God as the spiritual father and Christ as the head.

God wants many God-beings, more specifically many Christ-beings; Christ is in some ways more powerful than God because he has a physical body. The human being gets to unify heaven and Earth, bring the whole universe into one. Satan long time ago found out about what God intended for man and he became jealous so he will do anything to keep you deceived.

I got this from this site reluctant messenger: God: The Reluctant Messenger - God Talking To You 1

 

[Tom Terrific]

1^3 = 1

I like that.

Most people I have met, Trinitarians or not, are quite unable to explain the Trinity in simple terms.

However This does not mean the concept is false, it simply means like all religious concepts, it is mysterious.

That, too.

People seem to use "God" in two ways: to refer to the Father and to refer to the Godhead as a whole. I think sometimes they confuse the two without realizing it.

If the Godhead were a tesseract, and each cube an individual Person thereof, would that make the whole thing a little clearer?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am new to this but I admit I am unable to accept the Trinity. I have always thought that God was one being, Jesus his Son and the Holy Spirit was God's power used or given to whomever he wished. I too, as a previous post stated never been able to find any reference to the Trinity in the Bible but many quotes to 'only One God'.
Another point that puzzles me is if the Trinity was correct, then does that mean Jesus is God and vice versa? And if that's so how did Jesus die?? I thought the whole meaning behind Jesus dying was the fact that he was human, like us, but did no sin, that's how he could die for all of us. As far as I'm concerned God is immortal so cannot die...the only explanation I can come to is that they are 2 separate beings.

Since God can not die, and Jesus did die, how could they be the same person?

No Scripture says the dead Jesus [Acts 2vs27,31,32] resurrected himself, but that God resurrected Jesus. God would have to be alive in order to resurrect the dead Jesus. After the resurrected Jesus ascends to heaven, then Jesus appears before the presence or person of God in heaven.- Hebrews 9v24.

 

[Muffled]

Since God can not die, and Jesus did die, how could they be the same person?

No Scripture says the dead Jesus [Acts 2vs27,31,32] resurrected himself, but that God resurrected Jesus. God would have to be alive in order to resurrect the dead Jesus. After the resurrected Jesus ascends to heaven, then Jesus appears before the presence or person of God in heaven.- Hebrews 9v24.

You are in error. God does not see it this way. He sees the body as dieing but not Himself. That is due to the fact that He didn't die He left before death. It is obvious that the body is not God because it dies but the Spirit within is the Spirit of God which does not die.

Of couse! After leaving the boody there is no longer a dichotomy between God in a body and God outside of a body. Since the Spirit is not inside the body it can not be considered the operative power in the resurrection. Even if you could make that distinction, I can't think of any reason why God would wish to do it that way.

What is your point?

 

[Muffled]

I am new to this but I admit I am unable to accept the Trinity. I have always thought that God was one being, Jesus his Son and the Holy Spirit was God's power used or given to whomever he wished. I too, as a previous post stated never been able to find any reference to the Trinity in the Bible but many quotes to 'only One God'.
Another point that puzzles me is if the Trinity was correct, then does that mean Jesus is God and vice versa? And if that's so how did Jesus die?? I thought the whole meaning behind Jesus dying was the fact that he was human, like us, but did no sin, that's how he could die for all of us. As far as I'm concerned God is immortal so cannot die...the only explanation I can come to is that they are 2 separate beings.

This is good thinking and supported by scripture.

God should not be divided into His attributes ie omni-present, omni-potent, omniscient, love, good, forgiving, merciful. The Holy Spirit is used as a synonymn for Paraclete but in truth the Father, Son and Paraclete are all the Holy Spirit.

I take it then that you have never read of Jesus or the Paraclete (Holy Spirit). From your post it appears you do not know your own knowledge very well.

In terms of identity, yes.

The body died, God did not. See my previous post.

This is correct and it is true with Jesus as well. The Spirit of God within Him did not die.

 

[kylixguru]

You are in error. God does not see it this way. He sees the body as dieing but not Himself. That is due to the fact that He didn't die He left before death. It is obvious that the body is not God because it dies but the Spirit within is the Spirit of God which does not die.

Of couse! After leaving the boody there is no longer a dichotomy between God in a body and God outside of a body. Since the Spirit is not inside the body it can not be considered the operative power in the resurrection. Even if you could make that distinction, I can't think of any reason why God would wish to do it that way.

What is your point?

Both the physical body and the spiritual body can die. What doesn't die for anyone, including God, is the consciousness. And, God dies both physically and spiritually. How else can it be said that He overcomes all things? How else can it be said that He descends below all things in order to be exalted above all things?

Jesus took care of the physical part and the Holy Ghost took care of the spiritual part. This is why when Christ returns and redeems the Holy Ghost that together they hold the keys over death (physical) and hell (spiritual death). They hold the keys to these because they have unitedly overcome them both.

This return of both the Son and the Holy Ghost holding these keys to victory is taken care of by the advent of the Father, who represents the fullness of power by way of spiritual union between the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Put another way, Son of Man (Seth) redeems the Holy Ghost (Man or Adam) and they twain manifest as the Father and set all things in order to start off the new Creation. See Isaiah 44:6. This is when Adam is restored to His throne and He reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords for about a millennium, which is Adam and Seth's lifespan.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Both the physical body and the spiritual body can die. What doesn't die for anyone, including God, is the consciousness. And, God dies both physically and spiritually. How else can it be said that He overcomes all things? How else can it be said that He descends below all things in order to be exalted above all things?
Jesus took care of the physical part and the Holy Ghost took care of the spiritual part. This is why when Christ returns and redeems the Holy Ghost that together they hold the keys over death (physical) and hell (spiritual death). They hold the keys to these because they have unitedly overcome them both.
This return of both the Son and the Holy Ghost holding these keys to victory is taken care of by the advent of the Father, who represents the fullness of power by way of spiritual union between the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Put another way, Son of Man (Seth) redeems the Holy Ghost (Man or Adam) and they twain manifest as the Father and set all things in order to start off the new Creation. See Isaiah 44:6. This is when Adam is restored to His throne and He reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords for about a millennium, which is Adam and Seth's lifespan.

If consciousness does not die, why did Solomon, known for his God-given wisdom. write that the dead are conscious of nothing. Ecc 9v5?

The Psalmist agree the dead sleep the deep sleep of death.
Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v6 at death thoughts [thinking] perishes.

Jesus believed his dead friend was in death's deep sleep at John 11vs11-14.

 

[kylixguru]

If consciousness does not die, why did Solomon, known for his God-given wisdom. write that the dead are conscious of nothing. Ecc 9v5?

Spiritual death is the death of our conscience at a particular level. If you look at this passage it yet acknowledges consciousness. It simply points out that nothing registers to it. Thus, they have no conscience. These are people living in the flesh that when a finger is put to their pulse a heart beat can be detected. But, their spirit is dead.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Conscious and conscience are different.

A conscience can 'accuse' or 'excuse' if damaged.
- Romans 2 vs14,15; 1 Tim 4v2

So a person can choose to be conscious of wrong doing or not.


But to be 'un-conscious' and 'know nothing' is like being dead asleep. Ecc9v5

The Psalms say the dead sleep the deep sleep of un-conscious death.
-Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4

There would be no need for a resurrection if one was already death proof.

 

[kylixguru]

Conscious and conscience are different.

A conscience can 'accuse' or 'excuse' if damaged.
- Romans 2 vs14,15; 1 Tim 4v2

So a person can choose to be conscious of wrong doing or not.

But to be 'un-conscious' and 'know nothing' is like being dead asleep. Ecc9v5

The Psalms say the dead sleep the deep sleep of un-conscious death.
-Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4

There would be no need for a resurrection if one was already death proof.

Like I said, there are two kinds of life.

There is physical life and spiritual life.

There is an essential component of us, whatever you want to call it, that survives both of these types of death. Thus, there are two distinct kinds of resurrection.

There is physical resurrection, which is when we are enabled to have our consciousness dwelling in a physical tabernacle again.
There is spiritual resurrection, which is when our minds are filled with light and truth enabling us to be conscientious of things such that we are in harmony with God's Spirit as we conduct ourselves according to it.

You can be physically alive and spiritually dead.
You can be physically dead and spiritually alive.
You can be physically dead and spiritually dead.
You can be physically alive and spiritually alive.

When you understand this and pay close attention to decipher holy writ while taking these distinctions into full consideration then you can make a lot more sense of things.

 

[Vendetta]

Explain how God is a subordinate (Jesus/The Son) and ordinate (God/The Father) at the same time and how does this idea reconcile with medieval christian philosophy?

 

[faithofabraham]

1+1+1=1? or 1+1+1=3 or 1+1+1= something else?

Jehovah+Holy Ghost/Spirit(Jehovahs power)= God
Jesus- the son of God by his power(holy ghost) born of a woman=a man
a son of God by his power(holy ghost) and a lump of dirt=a man(adam)
to be honest im a little more impressed with the dirt forming into a man and then walking. not trying to lessen Jesus' birth as a miracle, just not as an amazing miracle to me.
God is the only god over us
Jesus is still a man, resurrected by God, and in heaven now sitting next to him.

the trinity...the devil is a very smart character.
I think its sad when many atheists read the bible they get the truth, because they werent looking for anything else, but then dont believe it.
while you had the jews(God's people) at the time of Jesus who thought he was calling himself God(and were slightly upset by it) and Jesus' response to them was you neither know me nor hear me, and they could never get it.
then you have many christians today who agree with those same jews but see it in a positive light.

FOA

 

[Morpheus]

Like I said, there are two kinds of life.

There is physical life and spiritual life.

There is an essential component of us, whatever you want to call it, that survives both of these types of death. Thus, there are two distinct kinds of resurrection.

There is physical resurrection, which is when we are enabled to have our consciousness dwelling in a physical tabernacle again.
There is spiritual resurrection, which is when our minds are filled with light and truth enabling us to be conscientious of things such that we are in harmony with God's Spirit as we conduct ourselves according to it.

You can be physically alive and spiritually dead.
You can be physically dead and spiritually alive.
You can be physically dead and spiritually dead.
You can be physically alive and spiritually alive.

When you understand this and pay close attention to decipher holy writ while taking these distinctions into full consideration then you can make a lot more sense of things.

:yes:

 

[kylixguru]

Explain how God is a subordinate (Jesus/The Son) and ordinate (God/The Father) at the same time and how does this idea reconcile with medieval christian philosophy?

The Son in one cycle of Creation grows up and becomes the Father in the new cycle of Creation.

When Jesus returns, He shall return in the capacity of the Father as the Father in the flesh. This takes place on Day 1 of the new cycle of Creation. He comes to judge all from the previous Creation and assign their eternal souls to whatever kingdom or mansion of glory they shall participate in during the new Creation. He divides the light from the dark. He gives everyone their 'new name'. He becomes the redeemed Adam of the new Creation and reigns for about a thousand years. This doesn't mean a single man is going to live a thousand years. It means a body of flesh and bone that is vivified by His Spirit shall maintain an orderly societal body by way of the Adamic Dynasty of Prophets, Seers and Revelators. Adam's body is a body of flesh and bone, which means its members are individuals organized according to a common Spirit, instead of a body of flesh and blood of one individual only. Though, there are the key individuals that are Adam's head, Adam's eyes, etc.

 

[Katzpur]

The Son in one cycle of Creation grows up and becomes the Father in the new cycle of Creation.

When Jesus returns, He shall return in the capacity of the Father as the Father in the flesh. This takes place on Day 1 of the new cycle of Creation. He comes to judge all from the previous Creation and assign their eternal souls to whatever kingdom or mansion of glory they shall participate in during the new Creation. He divides the light from the dark. He gives everyone their 'new name'. He becomes the redeemed Adam of the new Creation and reigns for about a thousand years. This doesn't mean a single man is going to live a thousand years. It means a body of flesh and bone that is vivified by His Spirit shall maintain an orderly societal body by way of the Adamic Dynasty of Prophets, Seers and Revelators. Adam's body is a body of flesh and bone, which means its members are individuals organized according to a common Spirit, instead of a body of flesh and blood of one individual only. Though, there are the key individuals that are Adam's head, Adam's eyes, etc.

Seriously, how do you come up with this stuff? That's a real question. It's not biblical doctrine and it's not LDS doctrine. Did you have some kind of revelation or what?

 

[kylixguru]

Seriously, how do you come up with this stuff? That's a real question. It's not biblical doctrine and it's not LDS doctrine. Did you have some kind of revelation or what?

I simply put aside all of the traditions and precepts of men and asked God to help me truly understand His Word. I admitted that I didn't know much and humbled myself to God and accepted the things His Spirit has directed me to understand. Jeremiah 4:22 was my wake-up call. God is talking about us, His people, in the latter days. We are living in the evil time when men's hearts shall fail them. People shall run to and fro but not come to the understanding of the truth. I realized after many years of doing the perfunctory things that I could hardly explain anything about the Gospel in real and practical terms. I got tired of chalking things up to "It's just a mystery I cannot understand." The D&C says the time would come when we, man in the flesh, would have a full understanding of all the mysteries of God. This was a signal to me to reject anything that required a "mystery" to it. Rather, I decided to find a basis in holy writ to decipher its sealed symbols. I've peeled back layer after layer until finally I was given a glimpse of the whole encompassing message of all holy writ that snapped into focus like a stereogram finally coming into focus. There are yet portions of scripture I have not fully deciphered, but most all of it now reads to me in plain and simple terms. Those are the terms in which I present my ideas here. As I see it, what I'm saying here is the message of the Bible and of the modern day revelations, as well as the Qur'an and the writings of Bahá’u’lláh. I can see how Joseph Smith Jr. also was able to understand holy writ in the manner that I have been enabled to see. It fits very tight and is very precise. Unfortunately, the reason the LDS cannot see it is because it contains very bad news for them as well as Christians and Jews also. We are being brought to judgment in our resurrection and we have our behavior as Aholah and Aholibah to account for. Only very few individuals are actually going to make it through the refiner's fire and come out of it pure gold. It is only these individuals who shall stand on Day 1 of the new Creation with the Father and become the seed stock of the new world in His Celestial Kingdom. The Bible says you must know the Father in order to obtain Eternal Life. Thus, it is the advent of the Father to come that I preach of. This is why Brigham Young said that the Adam-God doctrine would prove the eternal salvation or eternal damnation of the saints. He tried to teach them about the Father but the people couldn't tolerate it and wouldn't have it. The little bit he tried to teach was grossly misunderstood and he realized it wasn't time. The unbelief of the saints was still too strong. Things have only departed farther from this since. So, the question you need to ask yourself is, are you going to come to know the Father in your lifetime based upon what is taught in our meetings and conferences? Or, are you going to have to cut your way through all of the precepts of men and endure shame and ridicule and all of the blazes of the refiner's fire in order to come to know Him? The path is straight and narrow and only a few find it.

 

[faithofabraham]

jbug,
I have to ask, do you think that God living on the earth or anywhere else and living perfectly while doing so, being God and all, is a miracle?

FOA

 

[kylixguru]

jbug,
I have to ask, do you think that God living on the earth or anywhere else and living perfectly while doing so, being God and all, is a miracle?

FOA

No more so than it was for Abraham to pass all of his tests.
Some individuals are just incredibly incredible.
How they are that way can only be explained by millions of years of character development and some seriously intense study of human nature.

 

[Katzpur]

So, the question you need to ask yourself is, are you going to come to know the Father in your lifetime based upon what is taught in our meetings and conferences? Or, are you going to have to cut your way through all of the precepts of men and endure shame and ridicule and all of the blazes of the refiner's fire in order to come to know Him? The path is straight and narrow and only a few find it.

I think I'll stick with the path the Lord has showed us through His personally chosen Prophets and Apostles. Seems like the last time men decided they could find the way better without them, the Church fell into Apostasy.