The Trinity

[strikeviperMKII]

Something else: One equals absolutely One. Jesus himself made it very clear that God is absolutely One and the Only Lord. Read Mark 12:29. Every time you include Jesus in that equation, you are not only contradicting Jesus' own words but also committing idoltry of the Greek Mythology style.

Ben

So 1=1=1?

 

[Ben Masada]

So 1=1=1?

The Absolute Unity of God



Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labour.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibilitly of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be supperfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

Ben

 

[Thorwald Johansen]

The Absolute Unity of God



Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labour.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibilitly of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be supperfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

Ben

Isaiah 44:6 has God consisting of two figures. These two figures, are 'The Father' and 'The Son (begotten by The Father)'. The Holy Ghost (The Holy Spirit of God), proceedeth from The Father, and is mentioned in Genesis, in regards to creation.

 

[Ben Masada]

Isaiah 44:6 has God consisting of two figures. These two figures, are 'The Father' and 'The Son (begotten by The Father)'. The Holy Ghost (The Holy Spirit of God), proceedeth from The Father, and is mentioned in Genesis, in regards to creation.

I can't believe how people can be that naive to conclude the Trinity from Isaiah 44:6. That verse does not consist of only two figures but of seven: 1. The Lord; 2. The King of Israel; 3. The Redeemer of Israel; 4. The Lord of hosts; 5. The First; 6. The Last; and 6. The Absolute One God. How come that you have decided to choose only three?

Ben

 

[Muffled]

thats treading on very thin ice there :cover:

I've been there and done that. I have had the ice crack under my feet each step I took. It keeps life exciting even if I do happen to have faith that the ice is perfectly safe.

 

[Muffled]

Someone get me a 3 in 1 coffee. 3 different components but is still one.......

That is the one substance issue. If God is one substance in the father and Son then there are not 3 different components.

 

[Muffled]

Statement above came from a human being who also Stated this


Who can against "THY " statutes then? :bow:


if THOU said so who are we human that can against "THINE" ?:bow:


Nut Alert!!! ...... :help:

This should stand as evidence that your spirit is not one with my spirit. Otherwise you would have the gift of discernment.

 

[Muffled]

I can't believe how people can be that naive to conclude the Trinity from Isaiah 44:6. That verse does not consist of only two figures but of seven: 1. The Lord; 2. The King of Israel; 3. The Redeemer of Israel; 4. The Lord of hosts; 5. The First; 6. The Last; and 6. The Absolute One God. How come that you have decided to choose only three?

Ben

In case you haven't figured it out yet, there is only one person speaking. However that one person makes the same claims that Jesus makes: that he is king, redeemer and the first and last.

 

[Ben Masada]

In case you haven't figured it out yet, there is only one person speaking. However that one person makes the same claims that Jesus makes: that he is king, redeemer and the first and last.

All you have to do is to open your NT and prove to us if Jesus was ever king. During the thousands of years that Israel exists, there is not the slightest indication of a king called Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

All you have to do is to open your NT and prove to us if Jesus was ever king. During the thousands of years that Israel exists, there is not the slightest indication of a king called Jesus.

John [6v15] helps prove your ^above^ point.
When the people wanted to make Jesus a political king [ruler] over them Jesus declined by withdrawing from them.

 

[Christian Gnosis]

The Trinity is easy enough to understand. Take for example, an egg. The egg is shell, yolk, and white. Still one egg.

 

[Pegg]

The Trinity is easy enough to understand. Take for example, an egg. The egg is shell, yolk, and white. Still one egg.

what about when it hatches?

 

[Pegg]

All you have to do is to open your NT and prove to us if Jesus was ever king. During the thousands of years that Israel exists, there is not the slightest indication of a king called Jesus.

he became the king of a christian nation...a spiritual nation who were adopted as sons by God. The christians became Abrahams children by means of faith in Jesus.

 

[jtartar]

If one is to use the full intent of mathematical notation (including set theory) the correct notation would be 1 (is less than or equal to) 1+1+1 (which is less than or equal to 3).

If however, we use the full implications of mathematical theory as a projection of the G-dhead then we must deal with one very important notion form the ancient Hebrew description of G-d. That is the word “ehad” to describe the numerical “oneness” of G-d. If we assume the numerical singularity of “ehad” then the “oneness” of G-d becomes by definition the least common dominator of the whole. This would mean that G-d cannot be divided or differentiated into any “sub” persons or distinctions – such as “Father” “Son” and “Holy Ghost”.

If in contrast, “ehad” is plural unity, as in marriage when a man and a woman become “one flesh” then “ehad” does not assume the number theory definition of the “whole” or “counting” numbers and cannot be use as scriptural proof that G-d is singular. The point here is that according to all possible variant readings of “ehad” the “Biblical” interpretation of “one G-d” is contradicted in the doctrine of the Trinity.

Zadok

Zadok,
By your post I do not know if you are agreeing with the Trinity or not.
If there is a doctrine of man that can be called a NO_BRAINER it is the trinity.
There is NOTHING in the Holy Scriptures that even hint at the absurdity of a trinity.
First, let us see what the Bible says about God. Deut 6:4, God is ONE.
Gal 3:20, says God is one.
God is Omnipotent, this term is Mutually Exclusive, only one can be Omnipotent.
God has existed forever and CANNOT DIE, Habakkuk 1:12, Jesus died!!
God created Jesus, John 6:57, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, Prov 8:22-31.
If Jesus and God were the same they would know the same. Some things Jesus did not know, Matt 24:36.
Some things God has kept for Himself, Matt 20:20-23. Jesus has no control over some things.
The Trinity supposes a horrible monstrosity with three heads, making up a godhead. According to the Scriptures, God spoke to Jesus three times while God was in heaven and Jesus was on earth. Maybe a Tricorporal would work better that a Trinity, three bodies with a single head, instead of one body and three heads, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28.
Jesus himself said that the Father is Greater than I am, John 14:28.
Jesus said that God is his Father and his God, John 20:17.
The apostles, Paul and Peter said that God was the Father of Jesus, Eph 1:3, 1Pet 1:3.
In the descriptions of Jesus, he is said to be the IMAGE, of the invisible God, the exact REPRESENTATION of God, Col 1:15. Thid makes it impossible to be the same person.
Several places in the Holy Scriptures Jesus is called God's SERVANT, Acts 3:13, 4:27,30.
There are several other Titles that Jesus bears, Apostle, and High Priest, Heb 3:1, 5:10, Lamb of God, John 1:29, ONLYBEGOTTEN SON, John 3:16.
An interesting point to think about is at Matt 12:31,32, which says that anything can be forgiven, even speaking against Jesus, BUT sin against God's Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, now or ever.
Real PROOF TEXTS are at Dan 7:13,14, and Rev 5:6,7. In both these places God is sitting on His Throne and Jesus comes into His presence, in Daniel to receive power to become King, and in Revelation Jesus takes a scroll from God's hand. NOT POSSIBLE to be the same person!!!
In the original Sacred Scriptures, God's Personal name was written over seven thousand times. That Sacred Name is Jehovah. He says that He will never give His glory or His praise to anyone, Isa 42:8.
No one has ever seen God at any time, many have seen Jesus, John 1:18, John 6:46, 1John 4:12. No one can see God's face and live, Ex 33:20.
There are many more scriptures that prove Jesus to be God's SON. ALL any Christian has to do is believe the Scriptures themselves, and not believe what some say they say.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Trinity is easy enough to understand. Take for example, an egg. The egg is shell, yolk, and white. Still one egg.

Besides the egg's shell, what about the membrane part of the egg that is between the egg shell and the white?

However, we do Not think of an egg as a she or a he, but an 'it'.
There is no personality associated with the egg,
however, there is personality associated with God and Jesus.-Hebrews 9v24.

No where in Scripture is Jesus or Jehovah referred to as 'it' or 'itself'.
Yet, God's spirit is referred to at Romans 8v16 and 8v26 as 'itself'.

So isn't it just Greek grammar rules that are being followed in sometimes using the masculine he for it rather then setting doctrine?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

he became the king of a christian nation...a spiritual nation who were adopted as sons by God. The christians became Abrahams children by means of faith in Jesus.

Good point because 1st Peter 2v9 is talking about the 'resurrected Christ' and talks about those chosen as a holy nation and royal priesthood that would serve with him in the heavenly kingdom. -Rev 5vs9,10;20v6.

Jesus nor his first-century followers ever had any political ambition to hold office anywhere on earth.

However, at the time of Armageddon when Jesus is victor, Rev. 19v16 refers to Christ as King of Kings meaning King over all earthly kings at that time.
-Daniel 7vs13,14; 2v44.

Only Jesus then, as crowned acting king or ruler of God's kingdom,
will usher in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill; his earthly subjects.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Here's yer culprit:
Council of Constantinople (360) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But since the term ousia [substance or essence], which was used by the fathers in a very simple and intelligible sense, but not being understood by the people, has been a cause of offense, we have thought proper to reject it, as it is not contained even in the sacred writings; and that no mention of it should be made in future, inasmuch as the holy Scriptures have nowhere mentioned the substance of the Father and of the Son. Nor ought the "subsistence" of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit to be even named.

Not even to be named... yet name they did. Priests...

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Trinity is not supported by Bible.Jesus always said that The Father is greater than him.For example Bible says in John 14:28:"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
And also apostle Paul wrote:"Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, *who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."(Philipians 2:5,6).
These are only two passages that explain that Jesus is not equal to God.

*

 

[Muffled]

All you have to do is to open your NT and prove to us if Jesus was ever king. During the thousands of years that Israel exists, there is not the slightest indication of a king called Jesus.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Since Jesus says He has a kingdom then He is a king. I will grant you that He is not a worldly king but He is my king and that of millions more beside me from one end of the earth to the other. If ever there becomes a question of whether to obey the dictates of my country or Jesus, I will obey Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

Trinity is not supported by Bible.Jesus always said that The Father is greater than him.For example Bible says in John 14:28:"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
And also apostle Paul wrote:"Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, *who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."(Philipians 2:5,6).
These are only two passages that explain that Jesus is not equal to God.

*

You are in error. A trinity has three members no matter what the relationship between members. The only thing required is that the three have something in common.

In ther Philipians verse the translation leaves something to be desired but the whole tenor of the verse is that Jesus is equal to God.

The verse that says that "the father is greater" does recognize that there is a conceptual difference even though there is no difference in identity.