The Trinity

[Sonofason]

Thats incorrect brother.People are hung up on one scripture that is misunderstood due to a mistranslation.There are several scriptures proving Jesus is not God, but because of false doctrines,and mistranslations,people are thrown off and do not understand the truth.




*THIS IS QUOTED FROM THE WATCHTOWER LIBRARY

A Text That Teaches the Trinity?

One example of a Bible verse that is often misused is John 1:1. In the King James Version, that verse reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [Greek, ton the·on´], and the Word was God [the·os´].” This verse contains two forms of the Greek noun the·os´ (god). The first is preceded by ton (the), a form of the Greek definite article, and in this case the word the·on´ refers to Almighty God. In the second instance, however, the·os´ has no definite article. Was the article mistakenly left out?

The Gospel of John was written in Koine, or common Greek, which has specific rules regarding the use of the definite article. Bible scholar A.*T.*Robertson recognizes that if both subject and predicate have articles, “both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable.” Robertson considers as an example Matthew 13:38, which reads: “The field [Greek, ho a·gros´] is the world [Greek, ho ko´smos].” The grammar enables us to understand that the world is also the field.

What, though, if the subject has a definite article but the predicate does not, as in John 1:1? Citing that verse as an example, scholar James Allen Hewett emphasizes: “In such a construction the subject and predicate are not the same, equal, identical, or anything of the sort.”

To illustrate, Hewett uses 1*John 1:5, which says: “God is light.” In Greek, “God” is ho the·os´ and therefore has a definite article. But phos for “light” is not preceded by any article. Hewett points out: “One can always .*.*. say of God He is characterized by light; one cannot always say of light that it is God.” Similar examples are found at John 4:24, “God is a Spirit,” and at 1*John 4:16, “God is love.” In both of these verses, the subjects have definite articles but the predicates, “Spirit” and “love,” do not. So the subjects and predicates are not interchangeable. These verses cannot mean that “Spirit is God” or “love is God.”

Identity of “the Word”?

Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of “the Word.” Says Bible translator William Barclay: “Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description .*.*. John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.” Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: “In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean ‘a god.’ .*.*. Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite ho theos, as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” BeDuhn adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.”

Dear Bible Student, please show me the words here that are mistranslated.
Why would it be necessary to translate Greek to Greek?

"Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος."
"Οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν."
"πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο, καὶ χωρὶς αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο οὐδὲ ἕν ὃ γέγονεν"
(John 1:1-3)

Now in English:
"In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word."
"He was in [the] beginning with God."
"All things through him emerged, and without him emerged not even one [thing] that has emerged."
(John 1:1-3)

So lets see, how long has this Jesus been around? Well, it appears that he was there, in the beginning, with God, certainly when all things were made. In fact it seems that He was with God before anything at all was made. Yep, that means that "The Word" was there with God before his puny brother "Lucifer" (forgive the pun), existed. We like to say that God made all things, yet we see here that God made nothing without his beloved Son. Now, I do not bow down and worship the Son of God, for the Son of God has declared that I should worship "The Father". This Word of God is certainly not Satan's brother.

Last time I checked all offspring are the same species as their parents. My dog had puppies, and guess what they were? They were dogs. My wife and I had children, now guess what they are. They are human beings. Who would have thought? Now I don't know what you think, but αν ο Θεός Παντοδύναμος θα πρέπει να έχουν ένα γιο, ότι ο γιος είναι θεός.

 

[Sonofason]

It is Gods Word that this information came from.It is,in fact,explained in detail by the Watchtower society.As you well know the OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic.The NT was written in all Koine Greek.If you truly are a real Jew, and speak Hebrew, then you already know the truth right?

I represent YHWH,YHVH,Yahweh,Yehowah,Jehovah.The one and only true God of Israel.The Almighty God.Everything that I state is based on thorough studying and an accurate knowledge of the truth.

You as a Jew do not believe in a Trinity right? You believe in one God ,the God of Israel right?

If you are a true Jew though,you do not believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah right?
You are still waiting on the arrival of the first coming of the Messiah.Real Jews think that Jesus was an impostor.Just like the Pharisees and Sadducees.

I on the other hand believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of Jehovah God,based on what is spoken of in the holy scriptures.

The Pharisees and the Sadducees were dying inside because they had no answers for Jesus when Jesus schooled them in the very holy scriptures they themselves knew by heart.They could not compare to Jesus when it came to knowledge about the Kingdom and Jehovah.

That is why they took him by night which was a violation of the law.According to Jewish law they also are not to have anyone put to death the day before,the day of, or the day after the passover,Nissan 14th.

The Jews also had a fake trial at the palace of the high priest instead of Sanhedrin

There were many violations that were committed by these Pharisees and Sadducees.They wanted him dead and gone because they knew that this meant that they would have to give up their positions and power.They were after their own hearts,instead of Gods.

If Jesus was truly guilty of the crimes the Jews accused him of, then why did they have to break the law in order to have him put to death?


Ps.Whats the problem with me cutting and pasting valid information? I do it all the time when I quote the bible.Is it only ok to do it for things you approve of?
People know who I represent.You did.Anyone can go to my page and see that I represent Jehovah God the Almighty.

But why not quote the Bible? Why quote the Watchtower? The Watchtower is not the word of God.

 

[Nada]

But why not quote the Bible? Why quote the Watchtower? The Watchtower is not the word of God.

Find the word Trinity in the holy scriptures.

 

[outhouse]

Find the word Trinity in the holy scriptures.

scripture is only holy to you.

the rest of us see the holes


Jesus never claimed to be god either, only the unknown authors hinted at it

 

[kjw47]

But why not quote the Bible? Why quote the Watchtower? The Watchtower is not the word of God.

The watchtower is a magazine that explains what Gods word is teaching--scriptures backing every truth found in its pages. thus--worldwide on a weekly basis, every JW on earth receives the same spiritual feeding--then this doesn't occur-1Cor 1:10)
JW,s have bible readings daily,weekly as well--how else can one learn every utterance and apply them? Jesus taught it was very important a true follower does that as importantly as ones daily bread.

 

[Nada]

Yes many think that the Watchtower magazine is what the JW's faith is based on.All the WT does is help explain important issues in the holy scriptures based on a thorough study of what the holy scriptures actually say.The WT magazine is the #1 most distributed magazine in the entire world with 140,000,000 copies a year.The #2 magazine is The Awake.The #1 most distributed and circulated book in the entire world is the Holy Bible.

JW.ORG is the only website in the entire world that has more languages translated than any other."The United Nations website was available in six languages. Europa, the official website of the European Union, could be read in 24 languages. Google supported 71 languages, while Wikipedia supported 287."

" If you click on the jw.org site language list on this page, you will see a list of over 300 languages—something that you are unlikely to find on any other website!"



JW.ORG Is Now Available in Over 300 Languages!

 

[Sonofason]

Find the word Trinity in the holy scriptures.

The word Trinity isn't in the Bible. The word wasn't even used until the 13th century.

Let me try to explain this according to my own understanding. When I think of God, I think of One God. A could not fathom more than one ultimate supreme being, the creator of the universe.

I see the Trinity as a new word to explain that which exists in reality. I see the Trinity as this:

God, the Father and Creator of all that is.

The Son of God, the physical manifestation or outward expression of God, the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit, The Moving Spirit or Breath of God that carries all expressions of God.

When God speaks, The Father wills, The Spirit of God moves, and the Word of God is uttered.

 

[Sonofason]

The watchtower is a magazine that explains what Gods word is teaching--scriptures backing every truth found in its pages. thus--worldwide on a weekly basis, every JW on earth receives the same spiritual feeding--then this doesn't occur-1Cor 1:10)
JW,s have bible readings daily,weekly as well--how else can one learn every utterance and apply them? Jesus taught it was very important a true follower does that as importantly as ones daily bread.

I think you should leave the teaching and explaining to me.

 

[Nada]

The word Trinity isn't in the Bible. The word wasn't even used until the 13th century.

Let me try to explain this according to my own understanding. When I think of God, I think of One God. A could not fathom more than one ultimate supreme being, the creator of the universe.

I see the Trinity as a new word to explain that which exists in reality. I see the Trinity as this:

God, the Father and Creator of all that is.

The Son of God, the physical manifestation or outward expression of God, the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit, The Moving Spirit or Breath of God that carries all expressions of God.

When God speaks, The Father wills, The Spirit of God moves, and the Word of God is uttered.

Thats exactly why I said that.Thats my whole point,meaning,you will never find such a word in there, for it does not exist in the holy scriptures.I do not believe in the Trinity.I do not believe God is three in one.You will also never find the words:Eucharist,Transubstantiation,Easter,Christmas,December 25th,3 wise men etc..

 

[Katzpur]

You will also never find the words:Eucharist,Transubstantiation,Easter,Christmas,December 25th,3 wise men etc..

Or Kingdom Hall or Watchtower, for that matter.

 

[Nada]

I think you should leave the teaching and explaining to me.

1 Corinthians 8:1-3. 1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. 2If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.…

 

[Nada]

Or Kingdom Hall or Watchtower, for that matter.

It doesn't mention degrading black people either.A certain organization did this up until 1978.
What does God say about this. 1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

 

[Jensen]

I believe you should show me the context that says that.

Can you show that the context is that they are of one substance? How about reading the chapter of John 17 in its entirety and see that the context does not support that they and we are of the same substance.

I believe this is adding words to the word of God that are not there.

No it isn't as I didn't add it to the scriptures. Just stating what I think it is saying.

I believe I agree that unlike Hindus we don't become one substance with God.

Well, then those verses aren't about substance then being that it also say that we are one with God and Jesus. Nice we agree on something.

I believe God is one substance in all three members of the Trinity.

I believe "in" means spiritual connection with the mind.

If you are speaking of the "in" in Chapter 17: 21 and 23, then aren't you adding to the word yourself?

Since you are in agreement with me that it isn't about substance, then what do you think it is about, if not about substance or unity?


John 17

20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word;
21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.
22 And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one;
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me.

 

[kjw47]

I think you should leave the teaching and explaining to me.

I know 100% for sure---The JW, teachers are Jesus' real teachers.

 

[Nada]

I know 100% for sure---The JW, teachers are Jesus' real teachers.

Just the simple fact that the JW's are the only ones distributing an accurate knowledge of the truth door to door and house to house is proof enough.

It says in Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Then in Acts 20:20 it says,"You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house."

Also in Acts 28:23 it says,"They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus."


The only ones who truly do as the 1st century Christians did are the JW's.They go door to door and house to house preaching about the Kingdom of God,persuading those about Jesus.

 

[Jensen]

Or Kingdom Hall or Watchtower, for that matter.

Its not found in the bible? You speak too soon. Of course it isn't speaking of a magazine, but the word is in the bible even if only in English.:yes: (posted in fun)

King James Bible
And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.


International Standard Version
When the army of Judah arrived at the remotest watchtower in the wilderness, they looked around at the invasion force, and to their surprise, there were dead bodies lying all around on the ground—not one had escaped!



GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people of Judah went to the watchtower in the desert and looked for the crowd. Corpses were lying on the ground. No one had escaped.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And when Judah came to the watch tower of the wilderness, they looked for the multitude, and, behold, they were fallen to the earth dead, for none had escaped.

King James 2000 Bible
And when Judah came to the watchtower in the wilderness, they looked toward the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.

American King James Version
And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked to the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.

American Standard Version
And when Judah came to the watch-tower of the wilderness, they looked upon the multitude; and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and there were none that escaped.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And when Juda came to the watch tower, that looketh toward the desert, they saw afar off all the country, for a great space, full of dead bodies, and that no one was left that could escape death.

 

[Sonofason]

Thats exactly why I said that.Thats my whole point,meaning,you will never find such a word in there, for it does not exist in the holy scriptures.I do not believe in the Trinity.I do not believe God is three in one.You will also never find the words:Eucharist,Transubstantiation,Easter,Christmas,December 25th,3 wise men etc..

You haven't made a point yet. It's time you do.

The fact that the word "Eucharist is not" in the Bible means nothing. Words are symbolic representations that are intended to express meaning, thoughts, and ideas. Oftentimes we form words for the sole purpose of consolidating existing word constructs. Most often, this is the case. Usually we begin with a lengthy construct of words, and designate a single word for that former construct of words. The definition usually comes first.

For example, once upon a time someone was investigating plants. And they saw that there exists a part of a plant that is often brightly colored, that usually lasts a short time, and from which the seed or fruit develops. And because man is relatively intelligent, knowing that time is valuable, determines to make it a little easier and less time consuming to discuss that "part of a plant that is often brightly colored, that usually lasts a short time, and from which the seed or fruit develops." So he gives that concept a name, a new name, a new symbolic expression that represents the entire word construct that formerly represented the flower, and the former word construct now becomes the definition of the new construct, namely the word "flower". Flowers existed before the word flower ever existed. And the definition for the word flower existed before the word flower existed, (this is my opinion, it is what I believe, I doubt I'm wrong about this.)

Now, lets look at the word "Eucharist".

Jesus said to His disciples:
"And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me."
(Luke 22:14-19)

This is the "Eucharist"

It's a new word, a single word that represents it's definition which existed before the word Eucharist existed. Jesus said, do it in remembrance of Him. So do it.

I don't care what term you want to give it. Read the entire passage if you want, every single time you decide you want to talk about it. But, I'm not going to waste a lot of time with the concept. I already know what the Eucharist is. I understand the concept the word is representing. I think it's about time you do to.

 

[Sonofason]

1 Corinthians 8:1-3. 1Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies. 2If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.…

The Holy Spirit of God guides me in my understanding. Who guides you?

 

[Sonofason]

It doesn't mention degrading black people either.A certain organization did this up until 1978.
What does God say about this. 1 Samuel 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

You just degraded a whole group of people, just now, by calling special attention to the color of their skin. Why did you do that? Why did you even bring that up?

 

[Sonofason]

I know 100% for sure---The JW, teachers are Jesus' real teachers.

And yet what you just said means absolutely nothing to me. Interesting.