The Trinity

[outhouse]

But God isn't a particularity.

who are you to judge what god is or isnt???

 

[outhouse]

Fair enough. I am long winded.

My point was that concepts like inalienable rights, human dignity, inherent equality and the value of individuality are all contemporary Enlightenment "myths" that we can't really derive from history or science and especially from a purely material view of the universe and the evolutionary process.

They are stories we tell ourselves and concepts that we hold up as sacred in every practical definition of that word, concepts that we augment with symbols, defend with taboos, celebrate with rituals, parades, declare in demonstrations, enforce in government and promote through institutions. Yet none of them have any objective grounding in reality. They sound nice and they make us feel warm inside and good. But they are merely useful for the organization and harmony of our species for the time being.

Love it

frubals

 

[outhouse]

very God of very God; begotten, not made

I love that part.


they were so insecure over their creation they had to add that to the book lol

 

[outhouse]

or did god choose to be incarnate as jesus the man?
if god was incarnate wouldn't he already know the outcome of the sacrifice as a divine being? so it wasn't a sacrifice, because he is god.

this circular logic is making me dizzy...

LOL no kidding


when young children go "WHAT" when you explain them this. The look in their eyes says everything.

"But daddy it doesnt make any sense at all"

 

[waitasec]

LOL no kidding


when young children go "WHAT" when you explain them this. The look in their eyes says everything.

"But daddy it doesnt make any sense at all"

out of the mouth of babes...

 

[outhouse]

out of the mouth of babes...

What I see happened was


Man began asking questions about there holy book's. They had to start defining things as questions piled up. No one will follow something if they feel their decieved.

There were many holes that needed to be filled. Much of the book painted themselves in a corner. The trinity painted a way out.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Now I do believe in something like "human dignity", but I see this as foremost a theologically grounded truth before it is a secular one. Our secular mythology surrounding the human is to some extent true, and not merely a dispensable vocabulary aimed at maximizing human fulfillment (however that happens to be defined in the moment), but true for the fact that it is a mixture of a shadow and a glint that we see while we "look through the glass darkly" in this world. This is one of the reasons why I am so consistently moved by the image of the Risen Christ above the altar: here we can see humiles exaltavit, He hath exalted the humble. Christians don't just gather around the "true God" but also the "true man", and in Christ we can see ourselves and the true law of God that smashes down all human idolatries that are our constructions and abuses of power. The glorified Christ is the glorified humanity, and in Him we see clearly the dignity of even the lowliest- as He alone who is the highest (the Altissimus) did not withhold Himself from becoming the least among us.

I am finished with this conversation.

To other Christians here, there comes a time when we should remember: do not give pearls to swine, do not give what is holy to dogs

 

[waitasec]

Now I do believe in something like "human dignity", but I see this as foremost a theologically grounded truth before it is a secular one. Our secular mythology surrounding the human is to some extent true, and not merely a dispensable vocabulary aimed at maximizing human fulfillment (however that happens to be defined in the moment), but true for the fact that it is a mixture of a shadow and a glint that we see while we "look through the glass darkly" in this world. This is one of the reasons why I am so consistently moved by the image of the Risen Christ above the altar: here we can see humiles exaltavit, He hath exalted the humble. Christians don't just gather around the "true God" but also the "true man", and in Christ we can see ourselves and the true law of God that smashes down all human idolatries that are our constructions and abuses of power. The glorified Christ is the glorified humanity, and in Him we see clearly the dignity of even the lowliest- as He alone who is the highest (the Altissimus) did not withhold Himself from becoming the least among us.

I am finished with this conversation.

To other Christians here, there comes a time when we should remember: do not give pearls to swine, do not give what is holy to dogs

a wonderful example of passive aggressiveness

what about being humble...

 

[outhouse]

To other Christians here, there comes a time when we should remember: do not give pearls to swine, do not give what is holy to dogs

swine makes great bacon

hot dogs love ketchup

 

[sojourner]

And there is the real historicity of it all.

Jesus was human.


I have played devils advocate on this and played youir side of the fence [pretty much] I have not gone after jesus divinity because thats not what this thread is about.

I have left that alone to a point and only tried to state that man created and defined the trinity and man defined jesus divinity, not the other way around.

But in the end jesus was a mortal man who died and is dead. His legend ONLY grew after his death and what we have was written by unknown authors who never met or knew jesus.

Oral tradition for a established religion is very accurate, but when it comes to developing religions we have a track record for ancient hebrews to change oral tradition to fit their needs much the way the first part of the OT was written.



YOU have not shown how man did not rule on jesus divinity, we have a clear picture of a roman emporer defining how divine jesus might have been because bishops argued like children over this.

In the end there was no divinity or anything holy about the math involved to reach the answer to jesus divinity, because ancient hebrews said so who never knew or witnessed jesus does not make it so.

Except that Jesus is also fully Divine. Whether you think so, or not.

 

[sojourner]

who are you to judge what god is or isnt???

Please!

 

[waitasec]

Except that Jesus is also fully Divine. Whether you think so, or not.

how about..."except that Jesus is also fully divine, that's what i think"?
because this idea of the trinity isn't so straightforward.... well, that's what i think...

 

[outhouse]

Except that Jesus is also fully Divine. Whether you think so, or not.

only fully divine after a trial lol 325 years after his death, pulllease.


LOL there is direct evidence that he is %100 human and had not a ounce of divinity.


he died on a cross, this most scholars will agree upon as a certainty.

the vast majority of scholars do not look at the ressurection with any certainty at all!

as a matter of fact no one so far has brought the ressurection past a mythical standpoint.



You know dang well the ending of mark is a forgery/addition and the other unknown authors copied and exaggerated the fable

 

[outhouse]

Please!

yes please, please dont try and define something no one knows anything about.


if you were a hebrew, and described how your religion portrays its deity, I would listen with open arms.

hebrews on the other hand think you perverted their god and so do I

:yes:


They created the pages that describe said god and they would be the ones who can define him.

 

[sojourner]

only fully divine after a trial lol 325 years after his death, pulllease.


LOL there is direct evidence that he is %100 human and had not a ounce of divinity.


he died on a cross, this most scholars will agree upon as a certainty.

the vast majority of scholars do not look at the ressurection with any certainty at all!

as a matter of fact no one so far has brought the ressurection past a mythical standpoint.



You know dang well the ending of mark is a forgery/addition and the other unknown authors copied and exaggerated the fable

So? Jesus is fully human and fully Divine. Regardless of what you think.
That's how the church understands God.

 

[sojourner]

yes please, please dont try and define something no one knows anything about.


if you were a hebrew, and described how your religion portrays its deity, I would listen with open arms.

hebrews on the other hand think you perverted their god and so do I

:yes:


They created the pages that describe said god and they would be the ones who can define him.

Why? Didn't they redefine the God they lifted from the Sumerians? Why don't you insist that they define God?
Answer: Because faith is a moving and changing thing. As humans progress in their spiritual formation, our understanding of God also changes.

 

[JacobEzra.]

yes please, please dont try and define something no one knows anything about.


if you were a hebrew, and described how your religion portrays its deity, I would listen with open arms.

hebrews on the other hand think you perverted their god and so do I

:yes:


They created the pages that describe said god and they would be the ones who can define him.

lol What Hebrews? Do you mean Jews?

Judaism has changed and evolved over time. Remember Rabbinical Judaism was not around from the first time the scriptures were written.

Christianity evolved out of Ancient Judaism. Christianity started out Jewish, and evolved.

Genesis Ch 28
13 And there was Yahweh, standing beside him and saying, 'I, Yahweh, am the God of Abraham your father, and the God of Isaac. The ground on which you are lying I shall give to you and your descendants.
14 Your descendants will be as plentiful as the dust on the ground; you will spread out to west and east, to north and south, and all clans on earth will bless themselves by you and your descendants.

Carry that unto the expectation of the Messiah and how Jesus came and blessed the whole world, so now God is not only for Jews, but for all people.

 

[outhouse]

So? Jesus is fully human and fully Divine. Regardless of what you think.
That's how the church understands God.

thats how the church made him, to understand him.

Without Constantine who knows how divine yeshua would be today



you seem to be certain when most scholars are not

 

[outhouse]

Didn't they redefine the God they lifted from the Sumerians?

No

it was a combination of influences

Why don't you insist that they define God?

because in my opinion they created him. Who would know better then the people who first penned him. NOT those who changed their god. They dont believe you or your definition to this day either

Answer: Because faith is a moving and changing thing. As humans progress in their spiritual formation, our understanding of God also changes

false

peoples imaginations change regarding what they want to believe.


No one has a understanding of something they know nothing about. Every person has their very own definition of what god is and NONE are a like. vast as imagination can carry.



as far as yeshua is concerned, how do you really know he was divine??? because Constantine told you what to believe?? because the same people who thought the earth was flat, and had four corners, created 6000 years ago, and that we are all inbred from ancient hebrews after a global flood told you so?????????????????????????

 

[kepha31]

thats how the church made him, to understand him.

All you have is insulting assertions about the Church and shallow straw man arguments about God.

Without Constantine who knows how divine yeshua would be today

Either you have a reading comprehension problem or you just ignore the facts that refute your revisionist history.

you seem to be certain when most scholars are not

"Most scholars" yea, as if not naming any of them is going to give weight to your shallow arguments that you keep parroting.