The truth can set you free...

[Hope]

Example: Bush outlawed internet gambling a few months ago because he found it to be immoral from his Christian point of view. I could tell bush the true definition of immoral. Its call his image in the mirror. If ever there was a poster child for abortion, he is it.

.

Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think?

I find Bush's firm adherence to his Christian convictions incredibly admirable. I mean, it's one thing to say, Oh yeah, I'm a Christian, but quite another to be in such a position of power like him, and still stand by your beliefs. I call that "having a backbone", unlike so many other politicians out there. Good on him for outlawing internet gambling. I think it's kind of amusing that so many people are complaining about Bush's stand for morality, when there has never been as much freedom to do as you please in American history as there is now. I think the founding fathers of our country would be shocked if they saw our country now.

 

[Engyo]

The thing is, I'm already free..........

 

[Mister Emu]

Example: Bush outlawed internet gambling a few months ago because he found it to be immoral from his Christian point of view.

No matter what they say, the internet gambling ban was about taxes not morality. Or they would ban all gambling...

 

[Random]

The thing is, I'm already free..........

As am I. Frubals, Engyo...

 

[BFD_Zayl]

i do not wait around for gods to tell me what to do, my actions are based on courtesy, respect, caution, and friendship. those things come from me, not a divine being. granted i do have my own gods who impart knowledge to those that observe, i do not like to use the word follow, as it seems the people who believe are subjugated to their gods. i have a peculiar view on things, to me everything is a triad, in the most basic of basic descriptions... Black, Grey, and White. together they are whole and yet seperate. do as ye wish and let yourself be the judge of your actions, cross to many people or gods and you will suffer their contempt and hatred. help them and show them kindness and your life shall be a beacon. or take my path and care not what others think but act what seems right to you, and apparently what is right to me seems right to most. err...i babbled on again...didn't I?

 

[Hacker]

Finaly one that understands! :foot:

Preach I love you man! :bow:

I second that! Welcome welcome welcome! At first(since I didn't read the whole post), I thought this post was in reference to christianity and the preaching of the bible.

 

[lizskid]

Well, I have a couple of comments. As Halcyon said, there is no herd here, which means all views are welcome. That does not mean we name someone else's faith as ridiculous or crap, as you did. And, if you are open to discussion and change as you said, you surely know that there are more choices than Christianity or Satan. There are several theist faiths that are not Christian. God is not going to turn away from anyone, let alone believers that just don't happen to be Christian.

I find your comments interesting and your background fairly predictable. I applaud your strength of faith and devotion to it. Why are you no longer preaching? I hope all is well with you.

 

[ChrisP]

There's no herd here.

More of a tree house...

 

[Moni_Gail]

I found all of the above to be very interesting. I now have to go to the bookstore thanks to Sunstone for The End of Faith.

Preach, welcome aboard and I doubt many will miss the grand entrance you made.

 

[gnostic]

I find Bush's firm adherence to his Christian convictions incredibly admirable.

I don't find that admirable at all, especially if you are going force women to have babies that they don't want. The choice should be the woman's not some stupid devout president, and certainly not the church. The church should really stay out of the abortion issue.

Sure it is fine to express for him or any Christian to express their pro-life and anti-abortion views, but they should not force a person to not make that choice. They are trying to ban and make illegal to get abortion, which I think it is wrong.

If a woman was raped, and don't want the pregnancy, then she shouldn't have to carry the pregnancy to term. I am sick and tired of Christian leaders demanding bans. Politics should stay as politics; politics should not be mouthpiece for Christian agenda, or that of any religion, for that matter.

In Australia, we have federal minister of health, who is a devout Catholic, and he is using his power to give Catholic church both power and control over the hospitals. In his mind that would allow the church the ability to stop women seeking abortions. I am disgusted with Christian agenda in political life. Is bad enough that there are Muslims controlling countries in the Middle East, but I don't see Christians as any better than Muslims in the Western societies.

I am afraid that we are seeing intolerant Christian politics back in Western societies, causing the separation of state and religion to clash again. Instead of dealing with spiritual matters only, the churches will again be corrupted by the politics and worldly powers.

 

[Mister Emu]

So... conservative Christians should not be allowed to have political views?

he is using his power to give Catholic church both power and control over the hospitals. In his mind that would allow the church the ability to stop women seeking abortions.

This I would find wrong, giving the Church power over state hospitals and the ability to determine whether a pregnancy continues...

 

[gnostic]

So... conservative Christians should not be allowed to have political views?

Political view is one thing, but Christian politician pushing Christian agenda in the policy is an altogether different thing.

I have absolutely no problem with politicians being Christians. That's not the issue. Everyone is entitled to being a Christian or whatever religion he or she chooses. It is when they use government policies that put Christian agenda in it, particularly into multi-cultural country like Australia.

Do you want hear another of his policy of this minister (Tony Abbott)?

He wanted to make it compulsory that all women go to a Catholic therapist/consultant, to get "professional advice" on abortion. The women won't get unbiased advice.

He lost the votes on banning abortion last year, with both Senate and House of Representatives voting against the ban, and yet he persist on stopping women having abortion, regardless whether the women are Christians or not.

He had also lost the ban on stem cell research too, and yet he is not willing to let it go.

He give Catholic a bad name, in term of being intolerant of any other view except his own.

 

[Hope]

Is bad enough that there are Muslims controlling countries in the Middle East, but I don't see Christians as any better than Muslims in the Western societies.

That's a totally off-base, inaccurate comparison. But to each his own.

I am afraid that we are seeing intolerant Christian politics back in Western societies

As for "intolerant" Christians....well, Jesus didn't preach "tolerance"---he preached love, and people too often equate love with tolerance these days. They are not the same thing. Jesus offered the prostitute forgiveness, but followed that with a command: "Go and sin no more."

I do believe in the separation of church and state, and I do believe that Christians should be very careful with political power. However, I don't see Bush as having some sort of "agenda." His actions are merely an extension of his faith. He cannot with good conscience support abortion if he feels it is morally wrong. As I said before, I admire his "backbone." He's not perfect, he's definitely screwed up in ways, but at least he knows what he believes, and won't let others' opinions sway his convictions. Good for him, I say!

 

[gnostic]

As for "intolerant" Christians....well, Jesus didn't preach "tolerance"---he preached love, and people too often equate love with tolerance these days. They are not the same thing.

True. But Jesus is not running the churches today.

Which is why Christianity can be intolerant as any other religion. And Christians themselves be intolerant as the Muslims and Jews, more so in many aspect.

Jesus may have taught about love, but he did teach you not to judge or persecute others, which Christians sometimes failed to heed. And he did teach about compassion, which is more closer to tolerance than to love.

 

[Hope]

True. But Jesus is not running the churches today.

I think I'll frubal you for that. I'm sure you didn't mean it the way I understand it, but that statement is actually not far from the truth, IMO. Jesus should be running the churches! At least, He's supposed to. That's what's so sad. Christendom would be so much different if Jesus was truly put first.

Sorry for the tangent. I just thought that was a very insightful remark.

 

[XAAX]

Wow, that's a bit harsh, don't you think?

I find Bush's firm adherence to his Christian convictions incredibly admirable. I mean, it's one thing to say, Oh yeah, I'm a Christian, but quite another to be in such a position of power like him, and still stand by your beliefs. I call that "having a backbone", unlike so many other politicians out there. Good on him for outlawing internet gambling. I think it's kind of amusing that so many people are complaining about Bush's stand for morality, when there has never been as much freedom to do as you please in American history as there is now. I think the founding fathers of our country would be shocked if they saw our country now.

This is what I mean people. Yes his convictions are his own, and should be kept that way. I don’t think imposing your person moral beliefs on others is within anyone’s right. In my opinion it borderlines being “Evil” as Christians understand it.

Well lets turn the tables and watch all the Christians scream outrage. Lets say the next president is a satan worshiper. The first thing the new president does is pass laws that Christians find offensive and morally wrong. But there laws now, you can’t do a whole lot about them. All due to the fact that some moron thought it was ok to force others to do what he believes. They are both wrong. I just with that Christians could see that without the tables having to be turned.

Perfect example for you. The outlawing of prayer in school because it offends others. I’m not a Christian and I find this ridiculous. But guess what, it’s the law now. Do you see the stupidity. Morality is an individual responsibility. When you die, no one is going to stand there condemning you cause you didn’t force others to do the right thing to. I support the regulation of gambling, absolutely. Minors should not be aloud, and it should be limited to proper places. But to say its illegal has stepped over the boundaries.

As far as our founding fathers go, why do you think we came here in the first place. Besides the raping and killing of an entire culture I mean. To escape religious persecution. The right to religion. The condition this country is in had no connection to the lack of Christian control. By the contrary, in my opinion, has been part of the problem to begin with. I was watching a program on CNN the other day where a Christian historian was talking about this very topic. Surprisingly, his opinion was the same. He stated that in history, any government that was controlled by religion failed miserably. I believe it was the Christians who took this land from the Indians, enslaved them, and destroyed their culture all because they considered them non-christian savages. Who really were the savages?

 

[XAAX]

The thing is, I'm already free..........

Yes you are Engyo...not meant for you..

 

[XAAX]

i do not wait around for gods to tell me what to do, my actions are based on courtesy, respect, caution, and friendship. those things come from me, not a divine being. granted i do have my own gods who impart knowledge to those that observe, i do not like to use the word follow, as it seems the people who believe are subjugated to their gods. i have a peculiar view on things, to me everything is a triad, in the most basic of basic descriptions... Black, Grey, and White. together they are whole and yet seperate. do as ye wish and let yourself be the judge of your actions, cross to many people or gods and you will suffer their contempt and hatred. help them and show them kindness and your life shall be a beacon. or take my path and care not what others think but act what seems right to you, and apparently what is right to me seems right to most. err...i babbled on again...didn't I?

Do what thy will shall be the whole of the law...

 

[XAAX]

I thought this post was in reference to christianity and the preaching of the bible.

How dare you think such things!:slap:

Just kidding, No I do not preach from any of the religious “bibles”. All man made, all slanted toward their own agenda, and most have been translated so many times that the original meanings of the text are completely different from what people think of them today.

That first post was a bit on the long winded *****ing side. I had just got through chating with a group of individuals who were so narrow minded that it set me off. It was just a venting post. Didn’t realize I would find some enlightened people. Like a breath of fresh air. :trampo:

 

[Mister Emu]

Political view is one thing, but Christian politician pushing Christian agenda in the policy is an altogether different thing.

A Christian's political view is almost certainly going to be influenced by his or her Christianity...

He wanted to make it compulsory that all women go to a Catholic therapist/consultant, to get "professional advice" on abortion. The women won't get unbiased advice.

I find this wrong. I never said I didn't

yet he persist on stopping women having abortion, regardless whether the women are Christians or not.

He had also lost the ban on stem cell research too, and yet he is not willing to let it go.

If he was elected(was he?), your country had to have known what he was, and if he lied about his stances and how he would go about his job, then you have something.

He give Catholic a bad name, in term of being intolerant of any other view except his own.

Define intolerant?