Agnostic75
Well-Known Member
Message to 1robin: You have placed too much importance on Alexander. Other than Nebuchadnezzar, Ezekiel did not specify which nations over the next 500 years would attack either settlement.
You said that Alexander was the first to use naval siege machines, but so what? Consider the following:
Siege engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alexander did not invent siege machines. The evolution of siege machines would have happened anyway. Anyone who wanted to conquer the island fortress with a navy would have needed to use siege engines to conquer it.
In your first post in this thread, you mentioned an article at Ezekiel 26:1-14: A Proof Text For Inerrancy or Fallibility of The Old Testament?. It says:
So there was at least 500 years for the destruction of the island fortress to occur.
In my post 162, I showed that Alexander's siege machines on the causeway did not breach the walls, and that that was accomplished by ships. Once that ships had breached the walls, Alexander's solders quickly defeated the city. There is no evidence that the siege machines on the causeway significantly damaged the island fortress.
In my posts 154, and 156, I show that verses 6-11 refer only to the mainland settlement, and only to Nebuchadnezzar, and that all of the other verses refer only to the island settlement, and never to Nebuchadnezzar.
You said:
I agree, and that it the basis that I used for my posts 154, and 156.
I have mentioned a conservative Christian named James Holding to you before, and I told you about his main website at Tekton Education and Apologetics Ministries, James Patrick Holding. Holding is a gifted amateur. His website is extensive, and even some skeptic Bible scholars have said that he knows a lot about the Bible, but of course, they often disagree with him regarding many issues. Holding has read about two books a week for decades, and has forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever know. He has an article on the Tyre prophecy at Ezekiel Tyre prophecy defended. Consider the following excerpts from the article:
If verses 3-5, and 12-14, do not refer to Nebuchadnezzar, then they also do not refer to the mainland settlement.
You said that Alexander was the first to use naval siege machines, but so what? Consider the following:
Siege engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia said:The earliest engine was the battering ram, developed by the Assyrians, followed by the catapult in ancient Greece. The Spartans used battering rams in the Siege of Plataea in 429 BC, but it seems that the Greeks limited their use of siege engines to assault ladders, though Peloponnesian forces used something resembling flamethrowers.
The first Mediterranean people to use advanced siege machinery were the Carthaginians, who used siege towers and battering rams against the Greek colonies of Sicily. These engines influenced the ruler of Syracuse, Dionysius I, who developed a catapult in 399 BC.
The first two rulers to make use of siege engines to a large extent were Philip II of Macedonia and Alexander the Great.
Alexander did not invent siege machines. The evolution of siege machines would have happened anyway. Anyone who wanted to conquer the island fortress with a navy would have needed to use siege engines to conquer it.
In your first post in this thread, you mentioned an article at Ezekiel 26:1-14: A Proof Text For Inerrancy or Fallibility of The Old Testament?. It says:
biblearchaeology.org said:The total destruction of Tyre would be accomplished gradually by one nation after another.
So there was at least 500 years for the destruction of the island fortress to occur.
In my post 162, I showed that Alexander's siege machines on the causeway did not breach the walls, and that that was accomplished by ships. Once that ships had breached the walls, Alexander's solders quickly defeated the city. There is no evidence that the siege machines on the causeway significantly damaged the island fortress.
In my posts 154, and 156, I show that verses 6-11 refer only to the mainland settlement, and only to Nebuchadnezzar, and that all of the other verses refer only to the island settlement, and never to Nebuchadnezzar.
You said:
1robin said:They is the meat of the issue.......It uses pluralities in every case where more than Nebuchadnezzar was needed to accomplish what it stated. It uses the singular in every single case where only what Nebuchadnezzar accomplished what was mentioned.
I agree, and that it the basis that I used for my posts 154, and 156.
I have mentioned a conservative Christian named James Holding to you before, and I told you about his main website at Tekton Education and Apologetics Ministries, James Patrick Holding. Holding is a gifted amateur. His website is extensive, and even some skeptic Bible scholars have said that he knows a lot about the Bible, but of course, they often disagree with him regarding many issues. Holding has read about two books a week for decades, and has forgotten more about the Bible than you will ever know. He has an article on the Tyre prophecy at Ezekiel Tyre prophecy defended. Consider the following excerpts from the article:
James Holding said:Verses 3-5 and 12-14 are "I/they" verses -- and form a minor chiastic structure around the central core of verses describing Nebuchadnezzar's actions alone. The linguistic pattern of this passage indicates that the "they" of v. 12 are the nations of v. 4. Not only is the pronoun ("they") the same, but in addition, only in these verses is Adonai YHWH the sole leader, and two unique actions -- net spreading, scraping -- are the same as those ascribed to the nations in 3-5.
Slaying of the enemy is ascribed throughout the oracle, as would be expected of a common element of war.
Bottom line: "they" in v. 12 does not refer to Nebuchadnezzar and his army.......
If verses 3-5, and 12-14, do not refer to Nebuchadnezzar, then they also do not refer to the mainland settlement.
Last edited: