People can be Christian and agnostic, or Christian and deist. It's not like an "either-or" thing.
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The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.
- Thread starter logician
- Start date
logician
Well-Known Member
But they weren't.
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
It does seem they definitely want our founding fathers to be Christian.
Why, I cannot fathom.
LOL
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
How true. Stalin's daughter has indicated that he told her that Jesus was real and God's son. Quite often religion does not reflect your inner belief but a social/political decision. Sad that.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
The same reason why you guys definitely want our founding fathers to be atheist.
They were whatever each of them described themselves to be, which is a heckuvalot more complex than they there all Christian / they were all atheist dichotomy.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Amen Sistuh!!!The same reason why you guys definitely want our founding fathers to be atheist.
They were whatever each of them described themselves to be, which is a heckuvalot more complex than they there all Christian / they were all atheist dichotomy.
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
I've never said they said they were all atheist, in fact, I emphasized their enlightened outlook towards religion, which includes the fact that they did not consider themselves Christian by the normal standards.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Freemasonry isn't a religion, it's a fraternity. Of course a requirement of membership is that one has to believe in a supreme being, so Deists, Christians, Muslims, Jews and the like can join by invitation. I know religious conspiracy nuts like to imagine them being a cult of Baal out to take over the world (with their go-carts and circuses).
The country was defined as a secular nation with freedom of any religion. If you don't get that you didn't read or unable to read and are parroting other peoples logic.
You have just as much right to be christian, jew, atheist, agnostic, amish or anything you want to be. This is america, land of the free. And you are free. When people impose their will upon you or make laws that limit your ability to be free they are simply unamerican and it is the duty of the citizen to fight for and keep everyone in america free.
This country was not founded AS a christian nation and with good reason and to the credit of the character of our forefathers considering the religious environment.
You have just as much right to be christian, jew, atheist, agnostic, amish or anything you want to be. This is america, land of the free. And you are free. When people impose their will upon you or make laws that limit your ability to be free they are simply unamerican and it is the duty of the citizen to fight for and keep everyone in america free.
This country was not founded AS a christian nation and with good reason and to the credit of the character of our forefathers considering the religious environment.
alexander garcia
Active Member
Hi, where do some of you get your history? Yes the original post quot is correct. Now put it back into context. For some one that sounds non Christian you sure do use their way of taking what you like out of context. Yes in principal we don't just attack non Christian countries. Or are you claiming that we made this TREATY with another country just because we felt like explaining to that country that we are not a Christian nation? Since you mentioned George, was he a Muslim? Maybe Hindu?
It was a treaty made to create peace between the United States and one of the Barbary States. Its passage as written by a Congress including many of the Founding Fathers and others who had direct dealings with them indicates their agreement with the text, including the part that declares the United States to not be a nation founded on the Christian religion.
George Washington didn't publicly discuss religion much, so it's unclear what his true personal beliefs were. However, he was an emigrant from a country with state-sanctioned religion, and had seen the harm that it could do to a society and the people in it.
kai
ragamuffin
wow! i just waded through 254 posts and i still dont know if America was founded as a christian nation or not, i thought you guys had it all written down? so i have been now wading through the constitution and have just one question.
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.
Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, G. Washington - Presidt. and deputy from Virginia New Hampshire: John Langdon, Nicholas Gilman Massachusetts: Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King Connecticut: Wm. Saml. Johnson, Roger Sherman New York: Alexander Hamilton New Jersey: Wil. Livingston, David Brearly, Wm. Paterson, Jona. Dayton Pennsylvania: B. Franklin, Thomas Mifflin, Robt. Morris, Geo. Clymer, Thos. FitzSimons, Jared Ingersoll, James Wilson, Gouv Morris Delaware: Geo. Read, Gunning Bedford jr, John Dickinson, Richard Bassett, Jaco. Broom Maryland: James McHenry, Dan of St Thos. Jenifer, Danl Carroll Virginia: John Blair, James Madison Jr. North Carolina: Wm. Blount, Richd. Dobbs Spaight, Hu Williamson South Carolina: J. Rutledge, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, Charles Pinckney, Pierce Butler Georgia: William Few, Abr Baldwin
whos our lord?
because i was puzzled by this thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-crucial-difference-between-mccain-obama.html
The ratification of the conventions of nine states, shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the states so ratifying the same.
Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, G. Washington - Presidt. and deputy from Virginia New Hampshire: John Langdon, Nicholas Gilman Massachusetts: Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King Connecticut: Wm. Saml. Johnson, Roger Sherman New York: Alexander Hamilton New Jersey: Wil. Livingston, David Brearly, Wm. Paterson, Jona. Dayton Pennsylvania: B. Franklin, Thomas Mifflin, Robt. Morris, Geo. Clymer, Thos. FitzSimons, Jared Ingersoll, James Wilson, Gouv Morris Delaware: Geo. Read, Gunning Bedford jr, John Dickinson, Richard Bassett, Jaco. Broom Maryland: James McHenry, Dan of St Thos. Jenifer, Danl Carroll Virginia: John Blair, James Madison Jr. North Carolina: Wm. Blount, Richd. Dobbs Spaight, Hu Williamson South Carolina: J. Rutledge, Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, Charles Pinckney, Pierce Butler Georgia: William Few, Abr Baldwin
whos our lord?
because i was puzzled by this thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...-crucial-difference-between-mccain-obama.html
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
kai
ragamuffin
i dont know really i was just reading it .
A legal convention in christian countries,in a secular document? i just find it puzzling, the Lord in question is Jesus right? with hindsight maybe they should have left that bit out.
if you were to say, find that document and knew nothing of it,that sentence alone would give you the impression that it concerned a christian country.
kai
ragamuffin
so they wouldnt use it in Spain or france ? Italy?
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Yes, they would because that is the legal date.
"The Year of our Lord" is English for Anno Domine, which is Latin.
Would you have them use rhe Mosaic Date, or perhaps the Qur'anic calendar? That would be approximately 1200 AH (After the Hejira).
Using a standard calendar make it much easier than naming the years like "The Year he Sprinhg Rains Came Early, or using the Japanese system which began new with each Emperor.
As an aside the famous world war two Japanese Mitsubishi naval fighter aircraft the 'Zero' is called that because the call for designs and bids for the aircraft came out in the first year of the reign of Hirohito. Now that's really confusing.
Regards,
Scott