The U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.

[Magic Man]

Does Ron Paul have a stated religion? Not arguing with you, just curious.

I don't know, and I understand that you can vote for someone who doesn't have a religion. To be more accurate, I should say that we only ever have the choice to vote for people who are religious and have any chance of being elected. I could vote for Richard Dawkins if I wanted to, but it's not going to do much good.

I know you weren't being argumentative, but I had to qualify this.

 

[Sententia]

I don't know, and I understand that you can vote for someone who doesn't have a religion. To be more accurate, I should say that we only ever have the choice to vote for people who are religious and have any chance of being elected. I could vote for Richard Dawkins if I wanted to, but it's not going to do much good.

I know you weren't being argumentative, but I had to qualify this.

Dawkins would be good... But imagine Noam Chomsky. WOOT!

President: Noam, VP: Rich

 

[Starfish]

It depends on what you mean. Every candidate is going to identify as religious of some sort, even if they aren't especially. That's because if they don't people won't vote for them. So, we are pretty much forced to vote for people who claim to be religious at least to an extent. I don't personally care one way or the other, but in the end, it doesn't really matter, as I don't have the choice anyway.

I agree that they will all claim a religion, some sincerely, others for the votes, but you can usually tell if they really are or not. I don't feel the Clintons are very religious, same with McCain. I feel President Bush's Christianity was sincere, but didn't get a sense of that with his dad. So you can usually tell. Huckabee was obvious and Romney was very religious; however, being LDS I know that we typically don't "wear ours on our sleeves" and his was forced out in the open by the media. In other words, it's not our style to 'praise Jesus' in our everyday conversation as you hear some Christians do.

So that said, would someone's obviously strong religious faith, turn your (or our atheist friends' here) vote away?

 

[Magic Man]

I agree that they will all claim a religion, some sincerely, others for the votes, but you can usually tell if they really are or not. I don't feel the Clintons are very religious, same with McCain. I feel President Bush's Christianity was sincere, but didn't get a sense of that with his dad. So you can usually tell. Huckabee was obvious and Romney was very religious; however, being LDS I know that we typically don't "wear ours on our sleeves" and his was forced out in the open by the media. In other words, it's not our style to 'praise Jesus' in our everyday conversation as you hear some Christians do.

So that said, would someone's obviously strong religious faith, turn your vote away?

Not in and of itself, no. If it showed that it affected his/her judgement on other things in a negative way, then yes.

 

[Tau]

As long as Britain never declares itself a Christian nation I am happy for the USA to be whatever it wants to be, the minute it did there would be riots.
We value secularism and we know like the founding fathers of the USA knew that religion and politics must never be mixed, always tyranny and enslavement is the result, as history has repeatedly told us.

If my nation said 'We are a Christian theocracy and our laws are the Bible' I would be looking for some combat pants, an AK47 and some like minded comrades.

Fight the power!

 

[lilithu]

As long as Britain never declares itself a Christian nation I am happy for the USA to be whatever it wants to be, the minute it did there would be riots.
We value secularism and we know like the founding fathers of the USA knew that religion and politics must never be mixed, always tyranny and enslavement is the result, as history has repeatedly told us.

If my nation said 'We are a Christian theocracy and our laws are the Bible' I would be looking for some combat pants, an AK47 and some like minded comrades.

Fight the power!

That's really funny because Britain has an official religion whereas the U.S. does not.

BBC - Religion & Ethics - Church of England: History and role

 

[lilithu]

I don't know, and I understand that you can vote for someone who doesn't have a religion. To be more accurate, I should say that we only ever have the choice to vote for people who are religious and have any chance of being elected. I could vote for Richard Dawkins if I wanted to, but it's not going to do much good.

I know you weren't being argumentative, but I had to qualify this.

Lincoln was not religious. (He was a theist of sorts but suspicious of organized religion and did not affiliated with any.) When was the last time we elected a president who did not claim a religion? I'm curious as to when the change happened.

 

[Sententia]

That's really funny because Britain has an official religion whereas the U.S. does not.

BBC - Religion & Ethics - Church of England: History and role

While you are correct I can observe the only people that would find that funny must have never been to Britian. I can let others respond but you go to say Michigan... or the bible belt or go soak in Utah for a few weeks and then you compare it to Britian.

Of course I dont think any country should have an official religion period. There are 1000s and 100s of gods.... Some believe in 1, some 2, some 3, some a handful and some none. A country should be tolerant of all beliefs so long as a religions beliefs and practices do not infringe on the freedoms of another person.

 

[lilithu]

While you are correct I can observe the only people that would find that funny must have never been to Britian. I can let others respond but you go to say Michigan... or the bible belt or go soak in Utah for a few weeks and then you compare it to Britian.

Of course I dont think any country should have an official religion period. There are 1000s and 100s of gods.... Some believe in 1, some 2, some 3, some a handful and some none. A country should be tolerant of all beliefs so long as a religions beliefs and practices do not infringe on the freedoms of another person.

I am fully aware that religion plays a much smaller/almost non-existent role in the public sphere of Britain. But I still think it funny that Tau would say "as long as my country never declares itself a Christian nation".... I am quite certain that Britain long thought itself a Christian nation before the U.S. was ever born. Britain doe NOT have separation of church and state, as the U.S.'s Founding Fathers envisioned. What it does have is separation of religion and politics.

The other piece of this is that one can argue that it is precisely because the U.S. does not have an established church the way that so many other countries do that religion plays such a big role in our public sphere. Our Founding Fathers created the separation of church and state to protect religion from govt as much as it did to protect govt from religion. They wanted religion to thrive. In an environment where there wasn't just one established church, all religions compete for "market share" and therefore stay vibrant and socially engaged. That is what Madison envisioned. Tho I'm pretty certain he did not envision the unholy marriage between the GOP and the religious right, which has been destroying the wall of separation.

 

[The Seeker]

Lincoln was not religious. (He was a theist of sorts but suspicious of organized religion and did not affiliated with any.) When was the last time we elected a president who did not claim a religion? I'm curious as to when the change happened.

I'm not sure who the last president was that didn't claim a religion. However, I believe that religion identification probably became important during the start of the cold war with Russia. Many at the time identified communism with atheism and felt a strong Christian nation was needed to fight it.

 

[Sententia]

I'm not sure who the last president was that didn't claim a religion. However, I believe that religion identification probably became important during the start of the cold war with Russia. Many at the time identified communism with atheism and felt a strong Christian nation was needed to fight it.

it was the ISM that confused them... no ism in democracy, democratic, american or christian.... silly isms

 

[Tau]

That's really funny because Britain has an official religion whereas the U.S. does not.

BBC - Religion & Ethics - Church of England: History and role

Il repeat my last quote for you.
'If my nation said 'We are a Christian theocracy and our laws are the Bible' I would be looking for some combat pants, an AK47 and some like minded comrades.'


Our Queen is head of state and head of the church, for historical reasons, I am fully aware of that, but we are not a Christian nation, it is now that matters my point scoring chum.

LOL

 

[logician]

So that said, would someone's obviously strong religious faith, turn your (or our atheist friends' here) vote away?

Definitely. Unfortunately, almost all of the repubs seem to be ultraconservative and ultrareligious, which are reasons I don't like the GOP.

 

[lilithu]

Our Queen is head of state and head of the church, for historical reasons, I am fully aware of that, but we are not a Christian nation, it is now that matters my point scoring chum.

Neither is the U.S. AND it's written into our Constitution.

 

[Tau]

Neither is the U.S. AND it's written into our Constitution.

Great?

Anyway, the Queen has no power here so it doesnt matter if she is head of the Church or head of the ministry of silly walks...she is an old fashioned hangover from a fuedal past which my country men cant seem to let go of, I am a republican never a royalist.

The only good aristocrat is one painted upon canvas......down with royalty, power to the people.

 

[Sententia]

Great?

Anyway, the Queen has no power here so it doesnt matter if she is head of the Church or head of the ministry of silly walks...she is an old fashioned hangover from a fuedal past which my country men cant seem to let go of, I am a republican never a royalist.

The only good aristocrat is one painted upon canvas......down with royalty, power to the people.

And they can have nudity and swear on TV...

 

[rheff78]

Great?

Anyway, the Queen has no power here so it doesnt matter if she is head of the Church or head of the ministry of silly walks...she is an old fashioned hangover from a fuedal past which my country men cant seem to let go of, I am a republican never a royalist.

The only good aristocrat is one painted upon canvas......down with royalty, power to the people.

Tau, I gotta give it up for a country that has the House of Commons. I watch that all the time on CSPAN. It's freakin hilarious. I don't know where else they have something where you can just verbally lambaste your leader and have people hissing and booing. Great TV.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Definitely. Unfortunately, almost all of the repubs seem to be ultraconservative and ultrareligious, which are reasons I don't like the GOP.

That's about as ignorant a statement as you have ever made. Perhaps you could name some of these "ultra-conservative and ultra-religious" repubs.

 

[Tau]

Tau, I gotta give it up for a country that has the House of Commons. I watch that all the time on CSPAN. It's freakin hilarious. I don't know where else they have something where you can just verbally lambaste your leader and have people hissing and booing. Great TV.

It's good clean family fun.

Id like to see ol Bush take that kind of verbal abuse from his government, bring him down a peg or two.

 

[logician]

Unfortunately, in the U.S. Congress, if you dare mention you don't believe in god, they'd probably haul you away in a paddy wagon. So much for religious tolerance.