The Ultimate Challenge To Creationists

[jonathan180iq]

Once again, you make statements but fail to substantiate them.

I fail to subst.....what??

Here you go!

The Code of Hammurabi
Code of Hammurabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, compare to the Pentateuch.


The Epic of Gilgamesh
http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.rostankowski/courses/119a/s4/The Epic of Gilgamesh.pdf

Here is a 51 page PDF


Zoroastrian Origin Myth
http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.rostankowski/courses/119a/s4/The Epic of Gilgamesh.pdf

This contains 53 creation myths (Zoroastrianism is #26) You will also find had a direct impact on all of the peoples of the Mesopotamian region.

The Impact Of Egypt and Canaan on Israel
http://www.asor.org/pubs/books-monographs/nakhai.pdf

Again, a handy PDF.


If you like, we can also get into Historical and literary critiques of even the oldest passages of the Bible that exist.

Codex Sinaiticus
Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Genesis |

A viewable version of the entire manuscript. Between this and the Codex Vaticanus, you won't find anything closer to an original copy of the bible, and these were written in the 4th century CE.

 

[McBell]

It is like a child covering their eyes to avoid seeing something that frightens them.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Now the only question left is when are you going to remove your hands from your eyes?

 

[McBell]

Once again, you make statements but fail to substantiate them.

Just so you know, "I Beleive" is not substantiation....

 

[Sapiens]

Just so you know, "I Beleive" is not substantiation....

Yeah, but it is part of transubstantiation.

 

[Iti oj]

Yeah, but it is part of transubstantiation.

Zing. Here have frufru.

 

[rusra02]

I fail to subst.....what??

Here you go!

The Code of Hammurabi
Code of Hammurabi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, compare to the Pentateuch.


The Epic of Gilgamesh
http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.rostankowski/courses/119a/s4/The Epic of Gilgamesh.pdf

Here is a 51 page PDF


Zoroastrian Origin Myth
http://www.sjsu.edu/people/cynthia.rostankowski/courses/119a/s4/The Epic of Gilgamesh.pdf

This contains 53 creation myths (Zoroastrianism is #26) You will also find had a direct impact on all of the peoples of the Mesopotamian region.

The Impact Of Egypt and Canaan on Israel
http://www.asor.org/pubs/books-monographs/nakhai.pdf

Again, a handy PDF.


If you like, we can also get into Historical and literary critiques of even the oldest passages of the Bible that exist.

Codex Sinaiticus
Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Genesis |

A viewable version of the entire manuscript. Between this and the Codex Vaticanus, you won't find anything closer to an original copy of the bible, and these were written in the 4th century CE.

Citing a bunch of documents is like a lawyer coming to court with a big written brief and telling the judge: "Here, read this, it proves my case. All the facts are in there somewhere." That is not proof.

 

[rusra02]

Just so you know, "I Beleive" is not substantiation....

That little bug you have crawling around your posts is substantiation someone created it. How much more so do real insects substantiate the wisdom of their grand Creator. As Psalm 148:10,13 declares: "You wild animals and all you domestic animals, You creeping things and winged birds,...Let them praise the name of Jehovah, For his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven." Tiny insects praise Jehovah by revealing his creative Genius, IMO. God's "invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [who deny The Creator] are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20)

 

[Iti oj]

Citing a bunch of documents is like a lawyer coming to court with a big written brief and telling the judge: "Here, read this, it proves my case. All the facts are in there somewhere." That is not proof.

Isn't that what you do with the bible?

 

[rusra02]

Isn't that what you do with the bible?

No, it isn't. I believe the Bible presents the evidence that Jehovah is the true God. It presents specific reasons for accepting Jehovah as the Creator. Jehovah's witnesses are happy to show sincere people what the Bible says (free of charge), in support of its claim to be inspired by God. (Isaiah 43:10-12, 2 Timothy 3:16,17) That personal help is, IMO, far different from citing large amounts of written material and claiming if you just read it, you will have the facts.

 

[Iti oj]

No, it isn't. I believe the Bible presents the evidence that Jehovah is the true God. It presents specific reasons for accepting Jehovah as the Creator. Jehovah's witnesses are happy to show sincere people what the Bible says (free of charge), in support of its claim to be inspired by God. (Isaiah 43:10-12, 2 Timothy 3:16,17) That personal help is, IMO, far different from citing large amounts of written material and claiming if you just read it, you will have the facts.

So here read this. The evidence is inside.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Citing a bunch of documents is like a lawyer coming to court with a big written brief and telling the judge: "Here, read this, it proves my case. All the facts are in there somewhere." That is not proof.

I stated my reasons why in a previous post to you.
You claimed I did not substantiate such claims.
I have provided evidence of those very basic claims, as substantiation.
You say that doesn't count.

You have posted Bible verses. I have read your Bible.
I have posted basic links.
Have you bothered to open them?

We can't have a decent conversation unless you digest the provided data first.

I've done my homework.
So should you.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Citing a bunch of documents is like a lawyer coming to court with a big written brief and telling the judge: "Here, read this, it proves my case. All the facts are in there somewhere." That is not proof.

The irony here almost brings me physical pain.:areyoucra

 

[SkepticThinker]

I believe Jehovah has provided convincing evidence that he created the heavens and earth. No other God can prove their Godship by foretelling the future and then making their word come true. (Isaiah 46:9,10)
The evidence that someone created life in all it's forms is overwhelming. The evidence lies in what is created. One deduces a house or spoon or arrowhead had an intelligent maker. To then assume things infinitely more complex did not have a Maker, is to deny the evidence, IMO.
It is like a child covering their eyes to avoid seeing something that frightens them.

Okay so if you want to go with the "everything that is complex requires a creator," I have to wonder, is the god you worship more complex than life on earth? Than the universe? If so, and following your line of reasoning, the next question has to be, "who designed this complex god you believe in?"

 

[Desert Snake]

The Bible is worth more to me than almost all the 'things' related to religion that most people have ever said to me.

Ramen!

 

[jonathan180iq]

I mean, the evidence is in the creation, after all.

It's there for all to see.

 

[Sapiens]

I believe Jehovah has provided convincing evidence that he created the heavens and earth. No other God can prove their Godship by foretelling the future and then making their word come true. (Isaiah 46:9,10)

Unsubstantiated claim.'

The evidence that someone created life in all it's forms is overwhelming.

False claim.

The evidence lies in what is created.

All the actual evidence that there is points to natural process and none of it points to pixie dust.

One deduces a house or spoon or arrowhead had an intelligent maker.

Tell that to a bee hive or a termite mound or spider web, the beak of an Ajaja ajaja or the tusk of a Platybelodon or the dart of a cone shell or the barb of a pneumatocyst. No intelligence required.

To then assume things infinitely more complex did not have a Maker, is to deny the evidence, IMO.

There is no evidence, only your argument from ignorance.

It is like a child covering their eyes to avoid seeing something that frightens them.

Yes that is how you seem, only its more disturbing to watch an adult do it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Is the god of the bible the only god to have ever put his stamp of approval on his creation story??

Because...no.

And there is no evidence to support "His" claim. This thread only asks that you submit it.

The creation story that you, and the bible, refer to was taken, nearly in whole form, from the creation story of Ahura Mazda. It was pilfered from Babylonian Zoroasters during that period of Jewish History. Go read it. All of your evidence for creationism would, thus, support Ahura Mazda and diminish the role of Yahweh, who was his mythological clone.

You peaked my interest because I never took the time to read up on anything about Ahura Mazda only that Like the Epic Of Gilgamesh these stories that are found in the bible are the foundation to the biblical myths....OK..So I searched around and was amazed at how the bible copied right from these older original myths....

The Zoroastrian Creation Myth.

The Evil Spirit peeked out of his dark world to see all the amazing new creations. The Wise Lord called him and said: "Evil Spirit! Aid my creatures and give them praise so that you will be immortal". The Evil Spirit snarled: "Why should I aid your creatures? Why Should I praise them? I am more powerful!< I will destroy you and your creatures". Then he crawled back to the darkness to shape demons, witches, and monsters to attack the Endless Light.

Wow.....

 

[Monk Of Reason]

No, it isn't. I believe the Bible presents the evidence that Jehovah is the true God. It presents specific reasons for accepting Jehovah as the Creator. Jehovah's witnesses are happy to show sincere people what the Bible says (free of charge), in support of its claim to be inspired by God. (Isaiah 43:10-12, 2 Timothy 3:16,17) That personal help is, IMO, far different from citing large amounts of written material and claiming if you just read it, you will have the facts.

The Qu'ran also provides reasons and evidence to claim that Allah is the one true god. I mean it even says so a bunch inside. And I would be inclined to believe your position if I also had to believe that Jehovah is the one true god and then go from there.

 

[rusra02]

The Qu'ran also provides reasons and evidence to claim that Allah is the one true god. I mean it even says so a bunch inside. And I would be inclined to believe your position if I also had to believe that Jehovah is the one true god and then go from there.

It is not enough to claim your god is the true God. The world is full of false gods, but none of these can prove their Godship. Jehovah alone has done so, and challenges the false gods to prove what they claim. (Isaiah 43:9-13 and 44:6-20)

 

[viole]

That little bug you have crawling around your posts is substantiation someone created it. How much more so do real insects substantiate the wisdom of their grand Creator. As Psalm 148:10,13 declares: "You wild animals and all you domestic animals, You creeping things and winged birds,...

Are there birds which are not winged?

Let them praise the name of Jehovah, For his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven." Tiny insects praise Jehovah by revealing his creative Genius, IMO.

Ever seen a tiny insect praising Jehovah? I am not sure I would praise Jehovah for His creative genius if I were a tiny insect whose existence depends on the food provided by other animals excrements or rotting bodies.

God's "invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [who deny The Creator] are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20)

How can something that is invisible be clearly visible?

Ciao

- viole