The Us vs Them dogma within a religion

[pearl]

Is there any such teachings from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please, if yes, then kindly quote from him, right??

You are on an impossible quest. A list of Jesus sayings does not exist. Its a theory developed among some scholars, that because Mt and Luke contain material not found in neither, nor in Mark, that they both drew on a common source of which no extant copy has ever been found.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Second Vatican Council said that "the Holy Spirit offers everyone the possibility, in a way known only to God, to be associated with this paschal mystery of Christ and, therefore, to be saved" , It will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their saviour.
Karl Rahner referred to those saved outside of Christianity, 'anonymous' Christians.

Is there any such teachings from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, please, if yes, then kindly quote from him, right??

Regards

You are on an impossible quest. A list of Jesus sayings does not exist. Its a theory developed among some scholars, that because Mt and Luke contain material not found in neither, nor in Mark, that they both drew on a common source of which no extant copy has ever been found.

Then one's belief is in vain and, it transpires, one is siding with the Anti-Christ in stead of standing with (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah. And to make it aligned with (Jesus) Yeshua one needs to base one's belief on the following :

1. Jesus/Yeshua never died a cursed death on the Cross*, in the first place, please
2. and ,therefore, never rose from the dead*
3. He was never a Hellenist (dying, rising, atoning, ascending) deity*.

Right?

Regards
____________
* to prove otherwise kindly quote directly from Jesus/Yeshua in the first person, in
an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please, right?

 

[muhammad_isa]

But resurrection and heaven are reserved for those who accept Jesus as the son of God. "I am the gate ..", etc.

That's true..
..but there is more than one gate.

Unfortunately, an atheist has no gate .. they deny all "gates".

 

[pearl]

Then one's belief is in vain and,

Faith does not require proof, which is what you look for. If there were undeniable proof, no reason for faith.

 

[Estro Felino]

Us-Vs-Them is common.
Some religions more than other.
Christianity is not exempt.
I often hear about their war with their enemies,
eg, Marxists, Muslims, secular humanists,
Democrats, atheists, Satanists.

I assure you Christianity doesn't exclude anyone from salvation.
Merry Christmas.

 

[Revoltingest]

I assure you Christianity doesn't exclude anyone from salvation.
Merry Christmas.

Not a universal view within Christianity.
Happy Festivus!

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Then one's belief is in vain and,

Faith does not require proof, which is what you look for. If there were undeniable proof, no reason for faith.

Then, kindly, admit that one's belief/faith is not reasonable but a blind-faith , please, right?

Regards

 

[pearl]

Then, kindly, admit that one's belief/faith is not reasonable but a blind-faith , please, right?

You are free to throw it all out as 'blind faith'. But Scripture presents 'testimonies in faith', they do not present biographies nor chronological histories, that is not their purpose. What they do present is the faith of the earliest churches, the Christian confession of faith, to which is added the narrative, the stories.

 

[Muffled]

I believe you are right. The Church basis this belief on the covenant God made with Abraham.
That it is irrevocable and eternal.

I believe the Abrahamic covenant did not provide salvation.

 

[Muffled]

That's true..
..but there is more than one gate.

Unfortunately, an atheist has no gate .. they deny all "gates".

I believe you must have missed the "the" in front of "gate" that tells us there is only one.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe you must have missed the "the" in front of "gate" that tells us there is only one.

Arrogance is a trait of satan.
When we think that "we are the only ones" etc, satan is having a field day.

 

[pearl]

I believe the Abrahamic covenant did not provide salvation.

Would that not make a liar of God?

 

[GardenLady]

But resurrection and heaven are reserved for those who accept Jesus as the son of God. "I am the gate ..", etc.

I am not sure this is the case. Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through him . He didn't say that he cannot save those who do the will of the Father but don't know Jesus. There are those who will argue that is the case but it's not what Jesus said.

As an illustration of what I mean, I refer readers to the story of Emeth in "The Last Battle," which is the final book in the Chronicles of Narnia.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Then one's belief is in vain and, it transpires, one is siding with the Anti-Christ in stead of standing with (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah. And to make it aligned with (Jesus) Yeshua one needs to base one's belief on the following :

1. Jesus/Yeshua never died a cursed death on the Cross*, in the first place, please
2. and ,therefore, never rose from the dead*
3. He was never a Hellenist (dying, rising, atoning, ascending) deity*.

Right?

Regards
____________
* to prove otherwise kindly quote directly from Jesus/Yeshua in the first person, in
an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please, right?

That view of him was heavily influenced by Greek and Zoroastrian culture. Not too helpful. What is important, IMO, were his teachings.

 

[Muffled]

Arrogance is a trait of satan.
When we think that "we are the only ones" etc, satan is having a field day.

I believe satan will very happily tell you there is another way to be saved. Oneness is not his goal. Deception is.

 

[Muffled]

Would that not make a liar of God?

I do not believe it does.

 

[Muffled]

I am not sure this is the case. Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through him . He didn't say that he cannot save those who do the will of the Father but don't know Jesus. There are those who will argue that is the case but it's not what Jesus said.

As an illustration of what I mean, I refer readers to the story of Emeth in "The Last Battle," which is the final book in the Chronicles of Narnia.

I believe He did.

I believe there is no-one other than born again Christians who can do this.

 

[LuisDantas]

We Christians are called to treat all human beings as fellow human beings.
There has never been a Christians\non-Christians narrative.
So...in other words the theology of atonement, for example, I guess it is not meant to exclude non-Christians from salvation.
What do you guys think?
I am also asking because of the numerous episodes of incomprehension between Atheists and Christians.

I suppose you could claim that there is a lot of mispractice and/or misunderstanding out there.

It is also probably necessary to focus in a somewhat idealized version of facts for dialog to advance at all.

Even so, I have to point out that the claim that there is no distinction made in Christianity between Christians and non-Christians is, if not outright false, certainly tricky to make work in practice.

Perhaps there are many sincere Christians that attempt to live in that way. I am certainly personal witness that many people who consider themselves Christians prefer not to question whether the people around them are, which may be an indication of a desire to treat others equally.

But that claim does not hold that much water, for better or worse. There is very much such a thing as a Christian identity. As a matter of fact, there are quite a few competing Christian identities out there, some of them complete with various amounts of pride, disdain and even violent hostility towards non-Christians. There is no lack of people who insist that they will not marry non-Christians, or that show obvious pride for having found protection "from the evils of the world".

How representative are they? Beats me. It will depend mostly on how you decide who counts as a representative of Christianity, I suppose. That is quite the hurdle IMO.

For many or most people Christianity is an actual creed that people may or may not adhere to, not a skill that people will have some level of proficiency at. The ideal of Christian brotherhood to everyone, including non-believers, is in practice very questionable indeed.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's true..
..but there is more than one gate.

Unfortunately, an atheist has no gate .. they deny all "gates".

That it is even possible for us to question the existence of those gates ought to say something, don't you think?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe satan will very happily tell you there is another way to be saved..

Think about it..
There are many denominations of Abrahamic belief.

Rather than us all claiming "only my way is correct", and arguing against ourselves .. there must be a better way.

satan is winning, and you just carry on blindly with your one-liners, without learning anything.

Do you really think that God is not aware of who is sincere, and who is not?
Do you think that it is only people from your denomination, that can be sincere?
Do you think that God will not guide those who are sincere to a righteous path?
Do you think it is impossible for somebody to be on a righteous path, unless they believe what you do?