The Us vs Them dogma within a religion

[muhammad_isa]

What is a major sin?

Well, it is not picking your nose..
It's also known as a mortal sin.
Mortal sin - Wikipedia

According to Jesus, you are in danger of hell merely by calling someone a fool..

That is not a mortal sin, but we still need to seek God's forgiveness for our sins generally.
..as in the Lord's prayer, for example.

A mortal sin is more serious. It requires repentance, and a serious vow not to repeat it.

What we believe is important to our salvation because if we don't believe the gospel we won't be saved, obviously.
We are saved by believing..

Yes, but it is not magic..
Belief should result in good deeds, and avoiding bad deeds.
In order to know what is good and bad, we need to comprehend God's guidance.

If there is no visible difference between the behaviour of a believer and a disbeliever, then how is belief affecting our lives?
How have we been saved?

 

[Estro Felino]

How can anyone read the New testament and say faith is irrelevant?

Romans 4:3

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4:9

Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”

Galatians 3:6

Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 2:23

and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God.
Romans 4:11

and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,


Romans 4:16

For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Habakkuk 2:4

“Behold, as for the proud one,
His soul is not right within him;
But the righteous will live by his faith.

Romans 1:17

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:11

Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”

Hebrews 10:38

But My righteous one shall live by faith;
And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

Romans 4:5

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Romans 3:22

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

Romans 9:30

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;

I believe in the Gospels...not in a person who used to persecute Christians and then he allegedly converted.
People don't change just liked that. Neither did Paul.

 

[rational experiences]

Family first. Natural law. Mutual equal.

Mutual law a thinker says not theorising...law is mutual when I compare my life to animals biology.

Trees aren't comparable however as nature garden.

As unlike my direct oxygen breathing as animals do... trees interact with heavens differently.

Awareness conscious and spiritual.

Family the laws of spiritual first.

Not religion.

Religion says to itself. The God of my creation I conjured out of grounds mass myself. Entombed God.

History space put it deep inside earths mass as pressed molten metals seams cooled as cooled. Pressures.

I think. I build. I use metals unnaturally by only broken laws. Dusts already heated attacked as not fused melded.

Deep space pressures owned that melt melded body.

I gained it's presence by using my owned natural living water. To cool manifest a Metal.

So theory said life ours living water saved the presence of a metal.

Above when the metal machine conjured itself by my transmitted caused below machines I use. Designs transmitted cooled built it in sound values. The UFO machine.

Out of sounds mass transmitters water our own life was taken above to the formed metal. Unholy.

So I told myself my life's water was abducted to save my life from manifesting machines. UFO. From my body to the metals manifesting.

Man theist false theories that advice for collider claiming it occurs after biology to ground. To enter his machine...our life.

Is an exact teaching science a human theist said to himself by religion that he sacrificed his own life by conjuring magic. Evil to self realisation science first religion second.

The machine god.

What religion meant.

Branch of a religious review became the medical healer science.

Branch became law.

Religion took sciences place as the branch.

No science branch.

Tree knowledge of good and evil.

That predicted why life's biology sacrificed now as term Jesus above us as an image in clouds ONLY would heal life when heavens mass above returned.

By legal implementation. Enforced world teaching agreed in trade.

 

[metis]

What does a 'literalist' have to do with the Churches position stating that those other than Christians are saved through their own covenants with God?

Obviously, most Catholic teachings are based on what's found in the scriptures, interpreted and then applied, and also with traditions. Thus, it's not a matter of either v or with me but is more along the line of how much of what's written and decided is objectively accurate.

To me, a great deal of scripture relates to the cultural milieu it evolved in, thus I don't see it as being objective or necessarily accurate. However, trying to determine that which is accurate is quite a bugger.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Well, it is not picking your nose..
It's also known as a mortal sin.
Mortal sin - Wikipedia


That is not a mortal sin, but we still need to seek God's forgiveness for our sins generally.
..as in the Lord's prayer, for example.

A mortal sin is more serious. It requires repentance, and a serious vow not to repeat it.


Yes, but it is not magic..
Belief should result in good deeds, and avoiding bad deeds.
In order to know what is good and bad, we need to comprehend God's guidance.

If there is no visible difference between the behaviour of a believer and a disbeliever, then how is belief affecting our lives?
How have we been saved?

This whole division of sins into mortal and veniel is man-made and not found in the Bible.
All sin is an offense against God, and all are covered by the blood of Jesus.
Yes God's forgiveness is magic! It's amazing and unmerited. Of course belief should result in Good deeds. Of course if nothing changes, you can rightly question whether you were really saved. But we are not saved by works, and our salvation is not maintained by what we do but by what Jesus did for us.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I believe in the Gospels...not in a person who used to persecute Christians and then he allegedly converted.
People don't change just liked that. Neither did Paul.

Lol, the whole point of the Gospel is that people do change just like that, not by themselves but by the power of God.

 

[Estro Felino]

Lol, the whole point of the Gospel is that people do change just like that, not by themselves but by the power of God.

I didn't imply that he didn't repent.
He did.
But I will not believe a person who was led astray once.
I prefer to believe Saint Peter, Saint James and Saint John.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This whole division of sins into mortal and veniel is man-made and not found in the Bible..

It doesn't have to be found in the Bible..
It is pretty obvious, some sins are worse than others.

All sin is an offense against God, and all are covered by the blood of Jesus.

Oh dear .. you might as well believe in voodoo..

Yes God's forgiveness is magic! It's amazing and unmerited..

You're taking it too far..
Jesus is not an anarchist.

You follow mankind's law, but claim God forgives all law-breaking because you believe Jesus shed his blood.

..we are not saved by works, and our salvation is not maintained by what we do..

Illogical .. salvation depends on good deeds.
The belief that Jesus shed blood, and that is all there is to it is meaningless.
There would be nothing to distinguish between a believer and disbeliever, in that case.

 

[pearl]

That's fine, but I dissent, especially since I'm very far from being a literalist.

Ultimately who is 'saved' belongs to God alone. The same goes for the concept of 'fulfillment', which is complex and not to be taken literally.

"The notion of fulfilment is an extremely complex one, one that could easily be distorted if there is a unilateral insistence either on continuity or discontinuity. Christian faith recognises the fulfilment, in Christ, of the Scriptures and the hopes of Israel, but it does not understand this fulfilment as a literal one. Such a conception would be reductionist. In reality, in the mystery of Christ crucified and risen, fulfilment is brought about in a manner unforeseen. It includes transcendence.43 Jesus is not confined to playing an already fixed role — that of Messiah — but he confers, on the notions of Messiah and salvation, a fullness which could not have been imagined in advance; he fills them with a new reality; one can even speak in this connection of a “new creation”.44 It would be wrong to consider the prophecies of the Old Testament as some kind of photographic anticipations of future events. All the texts, including those which later were read as messianic prophecies, already had an immediate import and meaning for their contemporaries before attaining a fuller meaning for future hearers. The messiahship of Jesus has a meaning that is new and original."

 

[Wildswanderer]

I didn't imply that he didn't repent.
He did.
But I will not believe a person who was led astray once.
I prefer to believe Saint Peter, Saint James and Saint John.

All of who were led astray and deserted Jesus.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Illogical .. salvation depends on good deeds.
The belief that Jesus shed blood, and that is all there is to it is meaningless.
There would be nothing to distinguish between a believer and disbeliever, in that case.

Nonsense. Real belief will produce results. The idea that we can merit salvation by doing good deeds is the opposite of the gospel. It's pride.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It doesn't have to be found in the Bible..
It is pretty obvious, some sins are worse than others.

Not to God.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You follow mankind's law, but claim God forgives all law-breaking because you believe Jesus shed his blood.

What is mankind's law?
If it doesn't line up with scripture I am not obligated to follow man's law.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Real belief will produce results..

What is "real belief", and what results to you refer to?

 

[Wildswanderer]

What is "real belief", and what results to you refer to?

Real belief is genuine, obviously.
In fact Jesus said a lot of people will think they are believers but they're actually trusting in themselves, and he never knew them.
The results are a changed life. Not a perfect one, but the Holy Spirit doesn't leave a person unchanged. Look up the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The results are a changed life..

Exactly .. but that is not magic..

Not a perfect one, but the Holy Spirit doesn't leave a person unchanged. Look up the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

..and the Holy Spirit can come to Jews and Muslims, as well.
It is not dependent on believing in blood atonement.

The Holy Spirit comes to a person who is sincere, and submits to God .. follows His guidance.
..and that is the "changed life" that you speak about.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Exactly .. but that is not magic..


..and the Holy Spirit can come to Jews and Muslims, as well.
It is not dependent on believing in blood atonement.

The Holy Spirit comes to a person who is sincere, and submits to God .. follows His guidance.
..and that is the "changed life" that you speak about.

The magic is forgiveness.
Jesus said he is the only way.
Only his atonement is sufficient to pardon us.

 

[metis]

It is pretty obvious, some sins are worse than others.

Such as the "unforgiveable sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit according to the Gospels.

salvation depends on good deeds.
The belief that Jesus shed blood, and that is all there is to it is meaningless.
There would be nothing to distinguish between a believer and disbeliever, in that case.

And this is what the Parable of the Sheep & Goats basically says in Matthew 25.

There's a difference between believing about Jesus versus in Jesus thus, to believe in Jesus is much more than just having p.c. beliefs.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Jesus said he is the only way.
Only his atonement is sufficient to pardon us.

Funny isn't it .. most believers say that their belief is the only one acceptable.

I put my trust in God . I don't believe that any man owns the exclusive truth.
Almighty God is aware of who is sincere, and who is not.
..and that's what counts in the end.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Funny isn't it .. most believers say that their belief is the only one acceptable.

I put my trust in God . I don't believe that any man owns the exclusive truth.
Almighty God is aware of who is sincere, and who is not.
..and that's what counts in the end.

If I sincerely believe Lucifer is God, will that be ok with the real God?

No, God is a jealous God as he says. He won't allow us to worship demons and then be in his presence... he's Holy, only his atonement will erase our sin.