The Value of Life

[Me Myself]

Everything has a value that depends on what you are measuring.

This means that if I am simply measuring what is important to me, then what I think and feel has absolute value.

There are no truly objective values. Numbers are images assigned a value for human measurement of phenomena through mathematics. If we humans die completely, there will be no "4" or "5"s in nature.

Values are assigned subjectively depending on the goals we put our minds into, and no goal can be truly "objective" because ultimately they will simply be decisions dependant on our whimsical desires .

So "value" is what we want to make of it.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Everything has a value that depends on what you are measuring.

This means that if I am simply measuring what is important to me, then what I think and feel has absolute value.

There are no truly objective values. Numbers are images assigned a value for human measurement of phenomena through mathematics. If we humans die completely, there will be no "4" or "5"s in nature.

Values are assigned subjectively depending on the goals we put our minds into, and no goal can be truly "objective" because ultimately they will simply be decisions dependant on our whimsical desires .

So "value" is what we want to make of it.

It's a subjective value, and subjectivity is only a perception of reality through emotion, the emotion isn't realism.

 

[Me Myself]

It's a subjective value, and subjectivity is only a perception of reality through emotion, the emotion isn't realism.

Yes, but any value is a subjective value as I just showed you.

No value is not subjective, unless you want to put a cause for that value or put the goal of your measurement.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Yes, but any value is a subjective value as I just showed you.

Didn't need to show me but ok.

No value is not subjective, unless you want to put a cause for that value or put the goal of your measurement.

Yes. The fact it is subjective perfectly means it is not objective and doesn't describe reality in itself without a bias perspective, and reality is not bias.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Or your understanding is riddled with holes... I have the instinct of liking myself, thus I like myself, thus I continue to survive, so I can live another day. Just because I like myself doesn't mean I'm valuable.

So you live because you like living.

Well, there's your value.

 

[Penumbra]

It's not an objective system determining value, not even for money, as the measurement would be based off a specie's subjective idea.

There's a difference between objective and absolute.

 

[Me Myself]

Didn't need to show me but ok.



Yes. The fact it is subjective perfectly means it is not objective and doesn't describe reality in itself without a bias perspective, and reality is not bias.

If reality was not bias and I am bias, then I am not part of reality, then humanity would not be part of reality either.



Only humans can be bias, and humans are real, so reality is bias.

 

[Me Myself]

There's a difference between objective and absolute.

By Oxford dictionary standards, nothing can be 100% objetive.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Not precisely, unless I'm misinterpreting you, but I'm trying to perceive objectively.

Good luck with that!!

You can only possibly have a subjective perception of reality. Reality is necessarily filtered through your senses and beliefs. You are the subject of the reality you perceive

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So you live because you like living.

Well, there's your value.

Did you read the last bit of my OP? There's no value when I value something, thus what I value does not have value.

There's a difference between objective and absolute.

Obviously... I'm talking about OBJECTIVE

If reality was not bias and I am bias, then I am not part of reality, then humanity would not be part of reality either.



Only humans can be bias, and humans are real, so reality is bias.

Everything is bias as long as it has emotions or thinks. Bias is part of reality, but the perspective of how reality really is is not from a biased look.

Example: Wikipedia has a page about being bias, but it in itself is not biased, in fact it has nothing negative on even the man that has been looked upon as if he were Satan: Adolf Hitler.

By Oxford dictionary standards, nothing can be 100% objetive.

From a perspective, it can't.

Good luck with that!!

You can only possibly have a subjective perception of reality. Reality is necessarily filtered through your senses and beliefs. You are the subject of the reality you perceive

Yeah, which is why I'm continuously thinking of ways around it

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Did you read the last bit of my OP? There's no value when I value something, thus what I value does not have value.

If there is no value, then you have not valued. You have valued life, therefore there is value.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If there is no value, then you have not valued. You have valued life, therefore there is value.

I'm talking objective values. Objective reality is only measured by mathematics right? Thus objective reality is the only realistic way of looking at things

 

[Me Myself]

I'm talking objective values. Objective reality is only measured by mathematics right? Thus objective reality is the only realistic way of looking at things

You are false on both assumptions:

Mathematics are not 100% objective because we are the ones who make mathematics. Objective reality is not the only "realistic" way of looking at things, because saying what is more "Realistic" either means all reality (which includes the part of reality that looks at things subjectively (i.e: us) ) or it would be an even more subjective label in itself.

 

[Me Myself]

From a perspective, it can't.

Then not even said wiki page is 100% objective.

Hence, every value depends on subjectivity, without exception. This of course includes life´s value.

 

[Alex_G]

Look at the human species, we appear so large, but really, think about 7^ billion organisms compared to every other amount of organisms on this planet, which there is beyond 2 million species so far discovered, and counting how many individuals are in each 2 million species... wow. If we remove the entire human species, not a stir.

Look at earth, now add the other planets, now the gas planets, now all of the minor planets (there are hundreds of them in just this solar system), don't forget the asteroid belt. Remove them all from the solar system, and all we are left with is the sun. How much mass was removed from the solar system? Not even a full 0.14%.

Remove this solar system from the milky way... doesn't matter. Remove the milky way from the universe... nothing. Remove an individual human from the universe, it doesn't matter.

This is not to be taken in a negative way, of course, since most of us know negative and positive are subjective measurements, we can't objectively measure them. Mathematics is the only thing that describes reality from an unbiased perspective, from a realistic perspective. Negative and positive, good or bad, etc. are based on a single organism's perspective. And like we agreed upon, a single organism's perspective has no value.

When we talk of value, and use words like 'meaning' 'importance' and 'mattering', we really must be referring to some agent to which such things would matter in the first place. Our presence, each individual with their sentient and conscious mind defines what it is for anything to have 'meaning'.
Don’t confuse scale, or mass with importance or meaning.

In a mountain of rock, one tiny diamond holds a disparate level of importance relative to mass, because we attribute that meaning to it.

We colour the world with meaning, without agents like us, there is no 'meaning' at all. So rather than think that any one creatures concerns are ultimately meaningless simply by reference to some intimidating scale and statistics, realise that they themselves, by simply existing, experiencing and caring create meaning from nothing.

 

[Alex_G]

If you hear a doctor quote that some operation has a 5% chance of complications, you might think that’s pretty low, until you’re the person that’s going to be on the table. You then take 5% much more seriously. Meaning and importance is inescapably linked to the subject.

 

[Willamena]

I'm talking objective values. Objective reality is only measured by mathematics right?

Why do you think that?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

You are false on both assumptions:

Mathematics are not 100% objective because we are the ones who make mathematics. Objective reality is not the only "realistic" way of looking at things, because saying what is more "Realistic" either means all reality (which includes the part of reality that looks at things subjectively (i.e: us) ) or it would be an even more subjective label in itself.

Mathematics is universal...

I never denied that subjectivity exists (hence is real) but what is subjective is only a matter of delusion. Dreams exists yet they are not real, that's the best comparison to explain what I'm saying.

Then not even said wiki page is 100% objective.

Hence, every value depends on subjectivity, without exception. This of course includes life´s value.

Wikipedia is more objective than we are, because it has no bias perspective, only the usage of facts, no opinions or emotions emphasized

When we talk of value, and use words like 'meaning' 'importance' and 'mattering', we really must be referring to some agent to which such things would matter in the first place. Our presence, each individual with their sentient and conscious mind defines what it is for anything to have 'meaning'.
Don’t confuse scale, or mass with importance or meaning.

In a mountain of rock, one tiny diamond holds a disparate level of importance relative to mass, because we attribute that meaning to it.

We colour the world with meaning, without agents like us, there is no 'meaning' at all. So rather than think that any one creatures concerns are ultimately meaningless simply by reference to some intimidating scale and statistics, realise that they themselves, by simply existing, experiencing and caring create meaning from nothing.

I don't see any proof how we can be related to a diamond in a rock, that's pretty geocentric if you ask me.

 

[Me Myself]

Mathematics is universal...

I never denied that subjectivity exists (hence is real) but what is subjective is only a matter of delusion. Dreams exists yet they are not real, that's the best comparison to explain what I'm saying.



Wikipedia is more objective than we are, because it has no bias perspective, only the usage of facts, no opinions or emotions emphasized

Mathematics is not 100% objective. Were it not for humans, mathematics wouldn´t exist. Math exists in our heads, nowhere else. It is a technique to predict and understand.

Values have to do with goals. Without goals there are no values, so values can only be subjective.

If I say "2+2=4" that is still subjective. Why? Because why did I say that? if it has motivations then it is subjective. 2+2 exists in both our minds while I am trying to evidence a point. We cannot objectively evidence objectivity anyways.

If I say, this has value of 1, that is subjective. 1 apple is also 8 seeds, I dont want to know how many atoms, etc, etc. So why did I decide that the apple represented a "1" ? probably because my goal was to count apples, not seeds or atoms. The "1" was made for the express purpose of human service, it´s goal and in the same way, it´s value is only important for us. So all values can only be subjectively important.

All values are invariably subjective.

 

[Me Myself]

When we talk of value, and use words like 'meaning' 'importance' and 'mattering', we really must be referring to some agent to which such things would matter in the first place. Our presence, each individual with their sentient and conscious mind defines what it is for anything to have 'meaning'.
Don’t confuse scale, or mass with importance or meaning.

In a mountain of rock, one tiny diamond holds a disparate level of importance relative to mass, because we attribute that meaning to it.

We colour the world with meaning, without agents like us, there is no 'meaning' at all. So rather than think that any one creatures concerns are ultimately meaningless simply by reference to some intimidating scale and statistics, realise that they themselves, by simply existing, experiencing and caring create meaning from nothing.

Exactly