kai
ragamuffin
how do you know?
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The Virgin Mary - or was she?
- Thread starter kadzbiz
- Start date
Ratiocinative
Member
Exactly why does it matter if Mary was a virgin after Jesus's birth? The virgin birth has an obvious importance, since it proves that there was divine intervention in Jesus's birth, but why does it matter afterwards?
kai
ragamuffin
its a man led world and religion is led by men so virgins have always had this sway over men , (vestal virgins, 70 virgins in heaven,etc etc etc )if religion was dominatedby by females i am sure it would have lost its importance years ago
kai
ragamuffin
its a man thing
Smoke
Done here.
In the Eastern Churches, the tradition is that Joseph's first wife and one of his daughters were both named Salome, the other two daughters being Martha and Esther.
Joseph's daughter Salome is supposed to be identical to the wife of Zebedee, mother of the apostles James and John, and one of the Holy Myrrhbearers who discovered the empty tomb.
Smoke
Done here.
It wasn't thought to befit the dignity of the Maker of the World that the woman who bore him should bear other children. I can't imagine why anyone would find that belief any stranger or sillier than the belief that he ought to be born of a virgin.
Smoke
Done here.
Maybe straight guys prefer partners who don't know how good (or how bad) they are.
kadzbiz
..........................
I believe that it was practice at the time not to name your child after a living relative, so Salome would not have been mother and child.
Ratiocinative
Member
Sorry if I'm confused, but isn't the Biblical Debates section? I would think that implies that you should reference some scripture(s) to support your opinion. I'm looking for some kinda of scriptural reason as to why it is important for Mary to have remained a virgin all her life, otherwise why bother "debating" over it?
kadzbiz
..........................
The OP was asking whether Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus, not that she remained one afterward, but that's okay, it makes the thread longer.
I'm no expert, but I believe the Church is the one that claims Mary's virginous state. The Church also claimed that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute, but they had to retract that teaching didn't they.
Smoke
Done here.
It's the Ashkenazi custom now. I don't think it was the Jewish custom then, and if it was, the Christians weren't aware of it. See Luke 1.59-61:
And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.
And his mother answered and said, Not so; but he shall be called John.
And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.
And his mother answered and said, Not so; but he shall be called John.
And they said unto her, There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.
gnostic
The Lost One
The only reference to this is in John (19:26-27); the other gospels don't mention John whatsoever at the crucifixion caring for Mary. Did the author embellish his part?francine said:
In Luke 23:39-43, one criminal insulted him, the other ask a question, and Jesus answer the 2nd man that he would join him in Paradise. However, you look at Mark (15:32) and Matthew (27:44), both criminals clearly insulted and mocked Jesus. And if you look at two men crucified with Jesus, John say nothing more than that (19:18). Did Luke embellish his version of the event?
My point is that I don't think the gospels are trustworthy in telling the truth. Clearly some of these events are embellished, even in the gospels.
Francine
Well-Known Member
Tradition also has our Blessed Mother living under the care of St. John in Ephesus, Asia Minor, until her death.
gnostic
The Lost One
You are mistaken. This tradition was actually said to be that of Mary Magdalene.
It was never certain that it was Jesus' mother where she died, or even when. The only connection between Mary (mother) and Ephesus were paintings, not from tradition, and these paintings were a lot later, and not supported by of the churches' traditions (Eastern or Western).
It was never certain that it was Jesus' mother where she died, or even when. The only connection between Mary (mother) and Ephesus were paintings, not from tradition, and these paintings were a lot later, and not supported by of the churches' traditions (Eastern or Western).
Francine
Well-Known Member
Smoke
Done here.
I don't know how I missed hearing about that one all these years.
My grandfather's sister was named for the Holy House of Loreto, and that was the only house of the virgin I had ever heard of.
logician
Well-Known Member
The better question is, why does it matter whether she was before.
Francine
Well-Known Member
It proves that there was divine intervention in Jesus' birth.
kadzbiz
..........................
Doesn't that prove my point?