"the walking dead"

[paarsurrey]

"the walking dead"


There were no literal and physically "walking dead".
It is a usual exaggeration of the sinful Bible scribes.
Truthful innocent Jesus never needed any such made-up miracles that he never performed.
Jesus just healed the near-dead people with his knowledge of the medicine of the day and with his prayers to G-d; he himself was neither a god nor a son of god.

Regards

"The dead" never walk, it is usual exaggeration of Bible scribes.
Regards

 

[viole]

Matthew 27:51-3*describes the resurrection of many godly people who exited the cemetery on Good Friday and returned to Jerusalem where they were seen by many people, earthquake and rocks breaking in half. If true, this event would have stunned all of Jerusalem, unquestionably been documented by numerous sources, as well as other gospels and in terms of shock value would have dwarfed even the resurrection of Jesus. Yet nowhere else but in Matthew does anyone speaks of this resurrection-related miracle. if its not literal then how to determine when it is... personal preference i take it..

Well, this is obvious evidence of the lack of reliability of the Gospel stories.

If those things really happened, then it is not obvious why the disciples were initially skeptical about Jesus resurrection. I mean, if I witnessed those things at the death of the master, I would be totally convinced that he really was what he claimed to be. And that includes his pre-announced resurrection on the third day. For sure, I would not be so skeptical about resurrections, in general.

The opening up of tombs and ex-dead saints wandering about town are not exactly in the mainstream, after all.

If that happened today, the CNN would probably try to get the cameras as close as possible to Jesus tomb to get the breaking, and expected, (good) news.

Nice and uplifting stories, but not more than that, I am afraid.

Ciao

- viole

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, this is obvious evidence of the lack of reliability of the Gospel stories.

If those things really happened, then it is not obvious why the disciples were initially skeptical about Jesus resurrection. I mean, if I witnessed those things at the death of the master, I would be totally convinced that he really was what he claimed to be. And that includes his pre-announced resurrection on the third day. For sure, I would not be so skeptical about resurrections, in general.
The opening up of tombs and ex-dead saints wandering about town are not exactly in the mainstream, after all.
If that happened today, the CNN would probably try to get the cameras as close as possible to Jesus tomb to get the breaking, and expected, (good) news.
Nice and uplifting stories, but not more than that, I am afraid.
Ciao
- viole

Misleading stories invented by Paul and the like.
Regards

 

[Revoltingest]

Dang!
What an episode!
No spoilers.....just.....dang!

 

[paarsurrey]

"The dead" never walk, it is usual exaggeration of Bible scribes.
Regards

NT scribes were used to making a mountain of a molehill.
Regards

 

[rusra02]

Matthew 27:51-3*describes the resurrection of many godly people who exited the cemetery on Good Friday and returned to Jerusalem where they were seen by many people, earthquake and rocks breaking in half. If true, this event would have stunned all of Jerusalem, unquestionably been documented by numerous sources, as well as other gospels and in terms of shock value would have dwarfed even the resurrection of Jesus. Yet nowhere else but in Matthew does anyone speaks of this resurrection-related miracle. if its not literal then how to determine when it is... personal preference i take it..

I do not think these verse were describing a resurrection. Here is how the NWT renders these verses; "And look! the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two, from top to bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split. And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised up (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people."
As stated in Insight on the Scriptures V2 p368, " these verses do not describe a resurrection but merely a throwing of bodies out of their tombs, similar to incidents that have taken place in more recent times, as in Ecuador in 1949 and again in Sonsón, Colombia, in 1962, when 200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor.—El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962."

 

[paarsurrey]

I do not think these verse were describing a resurrection. Here is how the NWT renders these verses; "And look! the curtain of the sanctuary was torn in two, from top to bottom, and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split. And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised up (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people."
As stated in Insight on the Scriptures V2 p368, " these verses do not describe a resurrection but merely a throwing of bodies out of their tombs, similar to incidents that have taken place in more recent times, as in Ecuador in 1949 and again in Sonsón, Colombia, in 1962, when 200 corpses in the cemetery were thrown out of their tombs by a violent earth tremor.—El Tiempo, Bogotá, Colombia, July 31, 1962."

It is usual exaggeration of the scribes of the NT, should not be taken as a literal fact.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Although Matthew mentions the ‘walking dead’ during his description of the death of Jesus, he makes it clear that it happened after the resurrection of Jesus. Sort of….
According to one tradition popular at that time, the Messianic Age was to begin with a general resurrection of everyone who ever lived. Everyone, living and dead, was to be judged and either rewarded or punished. This was to rectify the injustices of history in which the wicked prospered while the righteous suffered.
Paul has the resurrection of Jesus, the ‘first fruits’, be the opening of the Messianic Age, with the expectation that all the dead would be resurrected soon. Matthew supports this expectation by having some resurrections already happening. But he seems to get confused. He has the tombs breaking open and holy people coming back to life when Jesus dies. However they do not come out of the tombs until Jesus does days later. Might “after Jesus’ resurrection” (bolded in the quote above) have been added later on when Matthew or some copyist realized that Jesus had to come back to life first?

Paul and Church doctored the accounts of the scribes for their own aims, hence the confusion. They don't tell as to what happened to these "resurrected people" afterwards. Did they all went to skies?
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

"The dead" never walk, it is usual exaggeration of Bible scribes.
Regards

So is an Arab zealot riding a flying horse. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[paarsurrey]

There are and never were "the walking dead" literally and physically. The walking dead are mentioned proverbially and symbolically:

"Among the testimonies which have reached us through the gospels, is the statement set out below from the gospel of Matthew: 'And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his (viz. Jesus') resurrection and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.'20 There is not the slightest doubt that the story mentioned in the gospel, namely, that after the resurrection of Jesus the saints came out of the graves and appeared alive to many, is not based on historical fact; for, if it had been so, the Judgment Day would have been enacted in this very world, and that which had been kept secret as a test of faith and sincerity would have been made manifest to all; faith would not have been faith, and, in the sight of every believer and denier, the nature of the next world would have become an evident and a patent fact, just as the existence of the moon, the sun, and the alternation of day and night is an evident fact. In that case, faith would not have been a valued and a valuable thing such as could have merited any kind of reward."
Jesus in India by Mirza Ghulam Ahamd- the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
20
Matthew 27:52.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

"The walking dead" #50

It is symbolic and proverbial.
Like they say "Dead men tell no tales":

"'Dead men tell no tales' was a common pirate phrase, meaning once someone is dead, they can no longer communicate, hence killing someone is the best way to keep him/her quiet. A standard pirate excuse for leaving no survivors."​

http://pirates.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_men_tell_no_tales_(term)

Or

"Let the dead bury the dead ":
Leave the (spiritual) dead to bury the (physical) dead​

http://www.ldolphin.org/deaddead.html
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

During the Jerusalem War when the Romans leveled Jerusalem, strange sightings were reported. This was the conflict around 63-70 AD. Things reported by not just Jewish but also Roman historians and witnessed by members of the Roman army. Spirits in spiritual bodies rising out of the Earth. And many of them. I believe a resurrection happened at this time, the one prophesied in Daniel 12.

 

[Demonslayer]

Dang!
What an episode!
No spoilers.....just.....dang!

This! Dang!

 

[Revoltingest]

This! Dang!

Dang!

 

[Deeje]

I'm surprised that more Christians didn't reply. I guess they have to choose their battles and this one would not have been easy to win. If true, why wouldn't everybody in Jerusalem have converted on the spot. If it didn't happen, and was only written about years later by some Christian claiming to be Matthew, then who would care? Only the Christians. The rest of the people would go about their business believing in the crazy things of their own religion. Which, I wouldn't doubt, included dead people coming back to life, and floating off into space, and doing great miracles.

I have a different take on this issue.....this is from the Mounce Interlinear.

Matt 27:51-54:
Just then kai the ho curtain katapetasma of the ho temple naos was torn schizō in eis two dyo from apo top anōthen to heōs bottom katō; and kai the ho earth gē shook seiō, and kai the ho rocks petra were split schizō; 52 · kai the ho tombs mnēmeion were opened anoigō, and kai many polys bodies sōma of the ho saints hagios who had fallen koimaō asleep were raised egeirō. 53 · kai After meta his autos resurrection egersis they came exerchomai out of ek the ho tombs mnēmeion · ho and entered eiserchomai the ho holy hagios city polis and kai appeared emphanizō to many polys. 54 When the ho · de centurion hekatontarchēs and kai those ho with meta him autos, who were keeping tēreō watch over · ho Jesus Iēsous, saw the ho earthquake seismos and kai what ho was happening ginomai, they were terrified phobeomai, and said legō, “ Truly alēthōs this man houtos was eimi the Son hyios of God theos!” (Greek in red)


When you read the Greek and English together in this way, it doesn't convey the same meaning as some translations render it.
This conveys to me the thought of dead bodies being thrown out of their tombs in the cemetery as a result of the earthquake. When it says "after his resurrection "they" came out of the tombs and entered into the city, "they" could be those who saw the event and reported it in the city later. This seems a more likely scenario, since no other apostle even mentioned it.
If it had been a resurrection ahead of time for the "saints", then surely there would have been others reporting such a starling event.

 

[paarsurrey]

During the Jerusalem War when the Romans leveled Jerusalem, strange sightings were reported. This was the conflict around 63-70 AD. Things reported by not just Jewish but also Roman historians and witnessed by members of the Roman army. Spirits in spiritual bodies rising out of the Earth. And many of them. I believe a resurrection happened at this time, the one prophesied in Daniel 12.

I don't get you please. What are spiritual bodies? Is it from science or religion?
The dead don't walk.
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

I don't get you please. What are spiritual bodies? Is it from science or religion?
The dead don't walk.
Regards

Neither. Just history books recording some things people saw at that time. The eyewitnesses were military men and not necessarily religious. After reading some of this, I gather they could see these spirits, but could not touch them. Their bodies were spirit not flesh.

 

[JustWondering]

Matthew 27:51-3*describes the resurrection of many godly people who exited the cemetery on Good Friday and returned to Jerusalem where they were seen by many people, earthquake and rocks breaking in half. If true, this event would have stunned all of Jerusalem, unquestionably been documented by numerous sources, as well as other gospels and in terms of shock value would have dwarfed even the resurrection of Jesus. Yet nowhere else but in Matthew does anyone speaks of this resurrection-related miracle. if its not literal then how to determine when it is... personal preference i take it..

The bible sitting on my desk is 1139 pages long. The bible isn't a quick read. So it's only natural that people are going to remember and cling to the parts that make sense to them. I think most Christians only read through the bible while being lead through it at church while someone else gives them their interpretation on it. Many people who identify themselves as Christian that I've talked with in person haven't even read the bible. Theists on this forum are not a good representation of the general population, in my experience. I think you're expecting too much of most Christians, that they are knowledgeable about what's in their holy book to begin with, let alone taking the time to think about if it makes sense or not.

 

[paarsurrey]

Neither. Just history books recording some things people saw at that time. The eyewitnesses were military men and not necessarily religious. After reading some of this, I gather they could see these spirits, but could not touch them. Their bodies were spirit not flesh.

Please quote from some reliable history books preferably a good text book of history that have recorded this event. Also please mention, did they try to touch these spirits?
We have some members here who claim to be experts of history. They may please verify it.
Regards

 

[Brian Schuh]

Please quote from some reliable history books preferably a good text book of history that have recorded this event. Also please mention, did they try to touch these spirits?
We have some members here who claim to be experts of history. They may please verify it.
Regards

Alright, I rise to that challenge. I have a list here of ancient history books, including Roman historians, Jewish historians and early Church History. Just remember that secular historians are going to dismiss these accounts from the get go.