The warmongers at the European Union

[muhammad_isa]

I was talking about Russia. The Palestinians elected Hamas..

Oh, how terrible that Palestinians are Muslims, and turn towards their religion when oppressed.

 

[Estro Felino]

Defending yourself against an aggressor who invades your land, or helping an ally to do so

Ukraine is not in the NATO.
I have repeated this concept a thousand of times.
That makes it a third party.

Nobody here is "promoting" war.

Noooo...
of course not.

I hear nothing but warlike ways at the European Parliament.

As if we as European civilization hadn't evolved from the animal stage.

 

[Wirey]

Oh, how terrible that Palestinians are Muslims, and turn towards their religion when oppressed.

Who mentioned muslims? I said they voted for a government and got it. You seem intent on being offended, little guy. Here's a tip, don't imagine what I mean, read what I wrote. It's so much easier.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The blame game ..

There's no "blame game".
There is a military actively invading lands, destroying towns and cities and committing war crimes.

the Israeli "fight against terror" started on Oct 7, and completely cancels
out anything that happened before it . etc. etc.

I was talking about Ukraine. There is no comparison with Israel.

The West's fight against Russia started when Russia invaded Ukraine .. bla bla.

No .. it's all political .. if a country the West favours attacks another, we see different rhetoric.

We do?

Since the Berlin wall fell, along with the Warsaw pact, the West sees itself as superior, and
wants to consolidate its power, and prevent the Russian federation from re-establishing
itself and its "communist", authoritarian doctrine.

The US is authoritarian also, but has two parties whose policies are not REALLY made by Trump or BIden,
just as Putin does not really make all Russian policy.
It's a conflict of ideologies, that hides behind "democracy and fairness".

If you say so.

None of this changes the facts on the battleground of Ukraine, where war criminals are busy destroying a country in a landgrabbing military campaign.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Ukraine is not in the NATO.
I have repeated this concept a thousand of times.
That makes it a third party.

No. Not being part of NATO doesn't mean one can't be considered an ally.

Noooo...
of course not.

I hear nothing but warlike ways at the European Parliament.

Maybe, just maybe, you only hear what you want to hear.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I said they voted for a government and got it..

Well, weren't they lucky? They apparently had a choice.
..just like the Ukrainians have a choice.

..but do they really? Do oppressed, poor nations really have a choice, or are they being manipulated
by other powerful nations?

Divide and rule .. the oldest trick in the book. It works for a while .. but eventually, the game is up.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well, weren't they lucky? They apparently had a choice.
..just like the Ukrainians have a choice.

..but do they really? Do oppressed, poor nations really have a choice, or are they being manipulated
by other powerful nations?

Divide and rule .. the oldest trick in the book. It works for a while .. but eventually, the game is up.

As Russia is learning now in Ukraine.

Divide and conquer is their OP.
They're doing the exact same as we speak in Moldova, Georgie etc.

 

[Estro Felino]

No. Not being part of NATO doesn't mean one can't be considered an ally.

A country led by a clownish-Sorosian government is not an ally of mine.

Maybe, just maybe, you only hear what you want to hear.

This war will led to the undoing of this EU framework. These technocrats have suicidal thoughts.

 

[Wirey]

Well, weren't they lucky? They apparently had a choice.
..just like the Ukrainians have a choice.

..but do they really? Do oppressed, poor nations really have a choice, or are they being manipulated
by other powerful nations?

Divide and rule .. the oldest trick in the book. It works for a while .. but eventually, the game is up.

Yes, when I was poor growing up I routinely stole and killed and lied to improve my lot..... not really. They could leave. They could go somewhere that wasn't so oppressive, like any western democracy, and live their lives. Or they could vote for a terrorist organization and chat garbage like "From the river to the sea". As adults, that would be their choice. As adults, they should understand that their actions have consequences, and they will live with the consequences of their choices.

Or, they can whine and blame others. It's their choice.

 

[muhammad_isa]

None of this changes the facts on the battleground of Ukraine, where war criminals are busy destroying a country in a landgrabbing military campaign.

That's purely Western rhetoric..
Russia is "the enemy" .. they have been for ages.

They have dared to challenge the West, and their favoured candidate/party in Ukraine.
Do you even know what the people in Ukraine think about it all right now?

No, nor do I .. I don't presume one way or the other, just because Western/Russian media
claim one thing or the other.
I would imagine they want peace .. most people do in the middle of serious war.
The elites, of course, have their own agendas.

 

[muhammad_isa]

As Russia is learning now in Ukraine.

Divide and conquer is their OP.
They're doing the exact same as we speak in Moldova, Georgie etc.

Yeah, yeah, yeah .. the West are the goodies and the Russians are the baddies.
The cowboys are the goodies and the Indians are the baddies.

 

[muhammad_isa]

They could leave. They could go somewhere that wasn't so oppressive, like any western democracy, and live their lives..

You do not know what you are talking about .. they are under a military occupation.
They have no papers.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's purely Western rhetoric..

No. Russian soldiers committing a myriad of war crimes in Ukraine is a matter of fact, not a matter of "rhetoric".

Russia is "the enemy" .. they have been for ages.

They only have themselves and their behavior to thank for that title, insofar as it is actually true.

They have dared to challenge the West, and their favoured candidate/party in Ukraine.
Do you even know what the people in Ukraine think about it all right now?

I know what the Ukrainian refugee thinks that I employed.
We also know quite a lot from news inside of Ukraine.

The elites, of course, have their own agendas.

"the elites". Uhu.

Who's ordering Russian soldiers to invade Ukraine? Who's ordering them to keep going at it?

The orders of Ukrainian soldiers to fight off the invasion are reactionary.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah .. the West are the goodies and the Russians are the baddies.

Those are your words, not mine.

I never declared the "West" as holy / perfect.
I'm just talking about Russia's behavior in the region.

One thing is certain: they certainly aren't the good guys.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Ah, now you show your true colours.
The West's superiority other others.

No-no-no. I recognise the inferiority of those who try to be tyrants or worse over any population. Think life has got better for the Russians under Putin?

I think they did to an extent after WWII, but no empire in history rises without falling.
That is a product of human nature .. part of the test of our existence.

Tell this to Putin, who seems to have something wrong in his head - as to listening to the wrong people or just enacting childhood fantasies derived from his particular childhood.

I do not support Russian Federation .. I support the UK, my own nation.
That does not include supporting suicidal policies of any Western govt.

De facto, I support the UK but I try to recognise truth from fiction wherever it occurs. As I have said before, nothing against the Russian people, just the leadership of such, and as to this they seem to have some bad'uns - more than most.

 

[Nimos]

This from a person whose country made peace with the Nazis for the sake of peace...
well...that doesn't sound that coherent.
So many Danes' lives were saved. The king saved his own people's lives.

I am not likening WW2 to this war. I am just saying that sometimes compromise is necessary for the sake of peace and for the sake of the sacredness of human life. If the two parties had accepted a ceasefire of 6 months and used these 6 months to find a compromise...there would be peace, now.

The Danish people didn't have much of a choice, we are a little country and would have no chance of defending against Germany and there would have been no help.

So yes, the government (not the king) decide to come to an agreement with the Germans. But when that is said:

Bulgaria is the undisputed leader! Denmark comes close second. They saved approximately 8,000 Jewish people at great risk and transported them to Sweden. Among occupied countries Denmark and France were the ones where the highest proportions of Jews were saved.

Denmark is a small country you can easily move tanks from one end to the other in a few hours, so even if we had fought back, it would have taken them maybe one or two days.

Wanting to win at any cost is what kindergarten kids do.
I am an adult.

No, it is just as much about setting a line between what is considered acceptable and what is not. If no one reacted to the Russian invasion, do you think Putin would stop there?

What if he went to Estonia, Finland or Norway whatever? I guess that would be fine as well then?

 

[Estro Felino]

Those are your words, not mine.

I never declared the "West" as holy / perfect.

No...
you as a EU citizens should be loyal to our values and principles. The principles that inspired our EU, as organization promoting peace.
And yet what you do is to spit on our European identity and embrace the merciless and primitive logic of the warlike politicians who live overseas.

Honestly I feel betrayed by a fellow EU citizen.

I tell you with all due respect.

You should side with the constitutional order of Germany, whose constitution, article 26 repudiates any act of war.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Danish people didn't have much of a choice, we are a little country and would have no chance of defending against Germany and there would have been no help.

So yes, the government (not the king) decide to come to an agreement with the Germans. But when that is said:

Bulgaria is the undisputed leader! Denmark comes close second. They saved approximately 8,000 Jewish people at great risk and transported them to Sweden. Among occupied countries Denmark and France were the ones where the highest proportions of Jews were saved.

Denmark is a small country you can easily move tanks from one end to the other in a few hours, so even if we had fought back, it would have taken them maybe one or two days.

You're basically saying I am 100% right. Thank you, dear.
Because, by choosing the way of diplomacy, Denmark could save a significant amount of Jews.
Because, by granting Denmark autonomy, Nazis let Danes alone and Danes could move all these Jews to Sweden,

Imagine if Danes hadn't surrendered. The Nazis would have taken over in Copenhagen and basically deported all Jews to Auschwitz.

No, it is just as much about setting a line between what is considered acceptable and what is not. If no one reacted to the Russian invasion, do you think Putin would stop there?

We did react to the Russian invasion.
But a war cannot last 100 years. It cannot last for eternity.
At some point a ceasefire is needed to see if there is the pathway to diplomatic means.

We have evolved from the animal stage...so let's repudiate war, which is an animalistic method.

What if he went to Estonia, Finland or Norway whatever? I guess that would be fine as well then?

Putin would never invade a NATO country.
He's not stupid. He is smart.

 

[Nimos]

Of course, we can all do "what we want" .. but we have to accept the consequences.
They became "their own country", with assurances that they would remain a neutral country,
and not join NATO.

And they haven't joined NATO, have they? When you border a maniac I wouldn't blame them for wanting to do it. But Russia broke the agreement and invaded them, so screw them you can't trust that guy.

Right .. the Zelensky regime is "in bed with" the West .. good luck on that.
Good luck for the whole of the human race, when two major nuclear powers cross
each other.

But is the solution to just bend over whenever they mention nuclear weapons? Why don't you expect the same from Germany then? just because of Nato? But take any country not part of NATO, should we just stand by while Putin invades them? What is your solution here?

Well, perhaps the West should have thought about that, before forcing Russia to wage a war against
the expansion of NATO.

But they haven't and even if they did, that doesn't allow Russia to attack someone.

Again, in the modern day, you are not going to move troops around the world in huge numbers without everyone knowing. And the US nuclear missiles are pretty much all placed in the US anyway and can easily reach Russia.

I could understand Russia if NATO was building up a huge amount of troops at their border, but we are not. I don't understand why you would buy into that excuse.

As I say (and so does Trump), this war should never have happened.

Of course, it shouldn't because Putin shouldn't have attacked.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No...
you as a EU citizens should be loyal to our values and principles.

I am.

The principles that inspired our EU, as organization promoting peace.

...and justice and democracy and freedom and human rights.

And yet what you do is to spit on our European identity and embrace the merciless and primitive logic of the warlike politicians who live overseas.

No. Instead, I support standing up to those that do. Like Putin.

Honestly I feel betrayed by a fellow EU citizen.

You should side with the constitutional order of Germany, whose constitution, article 26 repudiates any act of war.

That goes for wars of aggression. Not for defending against aggression.