Jose Fly
Fisker of men
So you agree that a "transitional fossil" is a specimen that exhibits traits from different taxa?You explained what a transactional is right? What is the problem then?
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So you agree that a "transitional fossil" is a specimen that exhibits traits from different taxa?You explained what a transactional is right? What is the problem then?
How is an ancestral group, and descendant group determined?So you agree that a "transitional fossil" is a specimen that exhibits traits from different taxa?
This is exactly what I mean. It appears now that you don't agree with the definition I gave. Given that you claimed that there are no "transitional fossils", that must mean you have an idea of what a "transitional fossil" is.How is an ancestral group, and descendant group determined?
Although phylogenetic trees produced on the basis of sequenced genes or genomic data in different species can provide evolutionary insight, they have important limitations. Most importantly, they do not necessarily accurately represent the evolutionary history of the included taxa. In fact, they are literally scientific hypotheses, subject to falsification by further study (e.g., gathering of additional data, analyzing the existing data with improved methods). The data on which they are based is noisy
...taxonomic divisions are human constructs that have been imposed in hindsight on a continuum of variation. Because of the incompleteness of the fossil record, there is usually no way to know exactly how close a transitional fossil is to the point of divergence. Therefore, it cannot be assumed that transitional fossils are direct ancestors of more recent groups, though they are frequently used as models for such ancestors.
This idea of transitional sounds foreign to the one Darwin had in mind.... or am I missing something?
... one form is ranked as a variety of another, not because the intermediate links have actually been found, but because analogy leads the observer to suppose either that they do now somewhere exist, or may formerly have existed; and here a wide door for the entry of doubt and conjecture is opened.
Why should I accept it? Is it based on what is assumed or not?
I don't know what Darwin had in mind, but it seems different than how it is view today, and I highlighted why, so don't ask, otherwise I would assume you are suffering from "denial blindness".This is exactly what I mean. It appears now that you don't agree with the definition I gave. Given that you claimed that there are no "transitional fossils", that must mean you have an idea of what a "transitional fossil" is.
So what is your definition of a "transitional fossil"?
I've presented a pretty standard definition but you refused to agree to it while also refusing to provide an alternative. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point.I don't know what Darwin had in mind, but it seems different than how it is view today, and I highlighted why, so don't ask, otherwise I would assume you are suffering from "denial blindness".
How do you see transitional fossils, according to Darwin?
Well for one thing, I observe that you are the one demanding that your questions be answered, while refusing to answer mine. So I think if we are going to get anywhere, you could answer my last question.I've presented a pretty standard definition but you refused to agree to it while also refusing to provide an alternative. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point.
So here's what we need to do if we're going to get anywhere......decide what a "transitional fossil" is. How do you propose we do that?
I did answer. I noted that my definition is the standard definition (a specimen that has a mixture of traits from different taxa). That's how I "see transitional fossils".Well for one thing, I observe that you are the one demanding that your questions be answered, while refusing to answer mine. So I think if we are going to get anywhere, you could answer my last question.
That's quite a ways back.I did answer. I noted that my definition is the standard definition (a specimen that has a mixture of traits from different taxa). That's how I "see transitional fossils".
So now what?
Ok, this has gone in way too many circles. It's very simple....you claimed that there are no "transitional fossils". In order to make that statement honestly, you must have an idea of what a "tranitional fossil" is. So in your next post, please say what a "transitional fossil" is to you.That's quite a ways back.
https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-watchmaker.210491/page-20#post-5707778
In the hope of reconstructing a pivotal step in evolution — the colonization of land by fish that learned to walk and breathe air — researchers have decoded the genome of the coelacanth, a prehistoric-looking fish whose form closely resembles those seen in the fossils of 400 million years ago.
It's quite simple. You claimed there are no "transitional fossils", yet you refuse to say what a "transitional fossil" is or even agree to the standard definition that I provided.I think I now understand why you guys might have been so afraid to bring forward the evidence.
I was a bit confused, but now I understand why you go about creating rules
What are you talking about? What about what I said gives you the impression I never saw a painting, and what about what I said contradicts the definition of design? It literally says the same thing I did - that design is about intent being behind the object, it is not an inherent facet of the object itself.I went through this already, and I will not continue to go in circles.
Design
noun
So, you never saw a painting in your life... period.
- 1.
a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is built or made.- 2.
purpose, planning, or intention that exists or is thought to exist behind an action, fact, or material object.
Once again, you only know a painting is designed because you have seen paintings being made and know of no natural process that produces them. Comparing nature to man-made objects is asinine.You know about crayons. Can you come to a conclusion, assumption, whatever, that the painting was designed by someone?
Thousands of transitional fossils, a nested hierarchy of forms, genetics, geology and archaeology.What evidence?
Why are you ignoring everything I've written and constructing strawmen?You have shown nothing here. It's not relevant to what I am saying.
What are you trying to say, that scientists don't assert anything?
It "proves" nothing because, a I have already explained, science deals with "evidence" - not "proof".What does this prove?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils
Thousands of assumptions apparently led to thousands of transitional. I already get that. What evidence is there - I'm not asking you, I'm saying - There is None.What are you talking about? What about what I said gives you the impression I never saw a painting, and what about what I said contradicts the definition of design? It literally says the same thing I did - that design is about intent being behind the object, it is not an inherent facet of the object itself.
Once again, you only know a painting is designed because you have seen paintings being made and know of no natural process that produces them. Comparing nature to man-made objects is asinine.
Thousands of transitional fossils, a nested hierarchy of forms, genetics, geology and archaeology.
Why are you ignoring everything I've written and constructing strawmen?
It "proves" nothing because, a I have already explained, science deals with "evidence" - not "proof".
However, what it DOES prove is that your assertion - that there are no transitional fossils - is wrong. We have thousands of them.
No, a claim of "thousands of assumptions" is bearing false witness. Unjustified assumptions are not allowed in the sciences. I know that is the stock and trade of literalist Christians so I can see how you might be confused. You appear to be assuming that scientists are guilty of the same sins that science deniers are well known for making.Thousands of assumptions apparently led to thousands of transitional. I already get that. What evidence is there - I'm not asking you, I'm saying - There is None.
Peace.
Again, how can you say anything about transitional fossils when you don't even know what a "transitional fossil" is?Thousands of assumptions apparently led to thousands of transitional. I already get that. What evidence is there - I'm not asking you, I'm saying - There is None.
Peace.
Then you are simply wrong. You've already denied that there are transitional fossils and been shown a list of thousands of them. Now you're just sticking your head in the ground.Thousands of assumptions apparently led to thousands of transitional. I already get that. What evidence is there - I'm not asking you, I'm saying - There is None.
Peace.
It's a good thing I have patience.Then you are simply wrong. You've already denied that there are transitional fossils and been shown a list of thousands of them. Now you're just sticking your head in the ground.
If you are unwilling to debate honestly and admit mistakes or ignorance, why are you on a debate forum?
You are at best fooling yourself here. You refuse to even to try to learn. That alone is dishonest.It's a good thing I have patience.
You say I am wrong, but have not been able to prove me wrong, but I must say I am dishonest and wrong. I'm not the one who can't debate.
You guys are lacking seriously in ability to show that someone is wrong.
I'm not the one burying my head in the sand.
Should I throw the same thing over and over again, and you just close your eyes and duck, and pretend you saw nothing, and then keep parroting your previous statements.
I already told you, I don't like Merry-Go-Rounds.
Why don't you show me that I am wrong, instead of screaming for me to take your view.
I said what I said, and I showed why.
I'd appreciated if you did the same. Thanks.
How can someone even judge another of dishonesty. I mean, are there gods on these forums?
Is there a difference between Scientific evidence and evidence?You are at best fooling yourself here. You refuse to even to try to learn. That alone is dishonest.
But I am endlessly patient. Since you do not understand what evidence is, a very simple idea, then lets cover that first.
Scientific evidence is simply evidence that supports or opposes a scientific hypothesis or theory. Does that sound reasonable to you?